Stupid questions

[GooMan]

I'm new to reloading and I have a few stupid questions. I have a Hornady Lock-N-Load press, if that helps. I feel like I have a good handle on the overview of everything but some of the details seem a little foggy.

1) When using the little tube to pick up primers from the flip tray, how do you get the last one you picked up out of the little rubber thing on the end? It seems like I can only get 99 primers out of the pickup tube and into the tube on the press. I was a little hesitant to poke at it too much. Thought there might me a secret to it.

2) I've watched the DVD that came with the press about 100 times and I still have trouble with the dies. Something as simple as "screw the die into the press until you feel the case mouth" seems really hard to accomplish. Sometimes I can see the case spinning but I can't "feel" the die hit the case until several turns later. Does that make any sense? It took my brother and me basically 1/2 day to get it setup the first time. I feel like a complete dufus.

3) The seater/crimp die is driving me nuts trying to set that up. I can understand the seating. We just kept adjusting until the OAL matched some factory 45 ACP ammo we checked. That sounds pretty simple. The video shows the guy adjusting the seating die, then backing it off and adjusting the crimp part by screwing the die further into the press. I don't understand the purpose of setting the seating die to where you want it and then backing it off and moving the whole die.

Somehow we managed to load 50 rounds of 45 ACP without a problem and wanted to switch over to 223 in a day or so but I'm pretty much scared to change anything.

Any advice?

 

[RandyP]

I'm a little scared too - lol

First off, what load data did you use? From a manual or a powder manufacturer's website?

You can't just make up rounds by comparing to the OAL of a factory load. The factory powder (which you cannot buy) would have to be the same as would the bullet and primer.

I have the Lee reloading gear and use their videos to help set up dies. Might be worth a quick look-see and determine if they translate to the Hornady products.?

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

 

[presspuller]

The first advice I can offer it to take a breath and relax.

Reloading is suppose to be fun and while you need to pay attention it should not consume you.

1. Take a paper clip or something smaller in diameter than a primer and push it in the tube. As long as you don't hit it with a hammer you will do no harm.

2. You will get the feel for setting the dies, it takes a little time. If you use a light touch you will get the hang of it before too long.

3. The purpose of setting the seat/crimp in two stages is because the same die does both, but you have to adjust them separately. Just pay attention and follow the directions and it will come to you.

 

[GooMan]

We used 5.2 grains of Win 231 behind 230 gr Hornady XTP HPs, based on our Hornady book and what others suggested. We seated the bullet to what the book recommended then compared that to some factory ammo to compare OAL. Maybe I wasn't clear in what I said in the first post.

We screwed the die in and checked with a caliper, readjusted and repeated until we got the OAL we wanted. I just meant to say having that check made it easier to setup that die instead of just using "feel". The expander was pretty easy to setup since we just kept adjusting it until the bullet would just barely seat in the case mouth. We had more problems with the decapping/resizing and seating/crimping dies.

 

[Randy1911]

I have a Hornady LnL

Here is the way I do it.

Question 1.

I just leave the primer in the tube. The next time you load it, it will have 100 in the primer tube. If you really want it out, I just use the hairpin clip on the tube to push it on through.

Question 2 & 3

I just screw the seater/crimp die in with the seater plug backed out until I barely feel the die touch the case. I then back it out one turn. I then use the seater stem to seat the bullet to the depth I want. I then back out the seater plug 4-5 turns and then set the crimp. After I have the crimp set and the bullet where I want it, I raise the ram to the top, leaving the crimp part of the die set and screw down the seat plug to firmly touch the bullet. This will set the die as needed. You may have to make slight adjustments to the seater plug to get OAL to what you want. When you get the dies set the way you want it, just lock it all down and the lock-n-load bushing will keep it set as you change dies.

I hope this clears things up for you. If you have any more questions, just ask. We are here for you.

 

[rfwobbly]

Mr McGoo -
Welcome back. Glad to hear you pulled the trigger on an AP. That's a fine piece of equipment your brother will no doubt fight you for!

There are NO "stupid questions".

1) I don't have an AP, but Dillon supplies a little weighted black plastic rod to insure that the primers drop as they should. I use that rod to poke the 100th primer into the tube. If the AP doesn't come with a rod like that, then order the Dillon part.

Poking the primer in to use all 100 is a good idea. Your next 100 might not be that size or type primer.... then what do you do? Certianly don't want to mix magnums and rifle primers in with regular pistol primers.

2) On sizing and seating dies the external adjustment (the one made with the die body and the lock ring) is always made first. When you get that right, then adjust the center rod to suit.

- In the case of the sizer die, the decapping pin should come down until old primers are all being ejected. That should be with about 3/16" of the pin exposed.

- In the case of the seater die, well that's adjuster to get the bullet depth that's required of OAL.

3) On the subject of setting OAL, you'll find setup much easier if you build a test round (no primer, no powder) with the bullet at the perfect depth. Then next time around, you can simply put that in the correct station and screw down the bullet seater until the seater ram touches the tip of the bullet. Then you'll start with the seater set extremely close.

Setting up these machines the first time is a good day's work. Sounds like you got it going. It will go faster once each caliber is set up. You'll see.

 

[delta5]

There are no stupid questions, just stupid accidents...

 

[loadedround]

I have a Dillon 550 and load my primmer tubes similar to the way RFWobbly loads his primers, but I place my plastic follower rod on top of my filler tube before releasing the primers and my primer tube fills completely each time. My suggestion would be to buy a cheap 17 cal cleaning rod and use it as a follower when filling your primer tubes...it will also give you an excuse to buy a new 17 cal rifle.

 

[mongoose33]

A few comments:

I use a small hex wrench or similar to push that last primer into the tube.
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RWobbly noted a piece you can buy from Dillon, but you can make your own with a piece of 1/8" wooden dowel. I use this to weight down the primers in the tube as it feeds, which helps with the last few; further, you can add a little flag or a colored line or whatever to the dowel to indicate when you're about out (mine has a piece of tape as a flag).
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I use 5.7gr of W231 under the 230gr Hornady XTP bullet. The OAL is 1.23, so as long as your OAL is similar, your 5.2gr should be fine. My 5.7gr produces 850fps out of an XD-45 4" Service.
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I suggest that as you move along with this, that you produce some dummy rounds as you set up your press. That means no primer, no powder, but you should resize, decap, bell, seat, and crimp with that dummy round so as to determine two things:

1. Is the OAL correct?

2. Does the dummy round chamber in the gun (I pull the barrel out of mine and see if the round drops in as it should).

Yeah, you use up a few bullets this way, but it's better than screwing up the OAL with a primered and powdered case which you just have to disassemble anyway.

And a good jacketed bullet probably won't have its diameter changed so you can pull it and reuse it.
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Crimping was the step I had the most misunderstanding about when I started reloading. For a straight-walled cartridge like the .45, "crimp" is a misnomer; all your crimping should do is to remove the belling, or casemouth expansion, from the case, no more. You don't want the casemouth to indent into the bullet (hard to do w/ jacketed bullets, not hard at all w/ lead or plated or coated bullets).

The .45 headspaces off the casemouth, so you want it to be nice and square to the chamber. No tapering.

When I started, I thought crimping was necessary for the case to hold the bullet. Not so--normal neck tension should do that. Belling the case is necessary so you can start the bullet into the case when seating (very important with nonjacketed bullets so you don't shave off the plating or coating or lead when you seat).

So, the word "crimp" is unfortunate--for these uses the die should be called a "debelling die" or some such instead of a taper crimp die.

(and BTW, crimping is important for some rounds, such as where you turn the casemouth into the bullet using bullet's cannelure. But its only function in .45 is to remove the case mouth expansion.)

 

[Jesse Heywood]

The secret to adjusting the seating/crimping die is to understand the process.

You begin by seating the bullet to the proper depth in the case. Using a dummy round is very helpful for the beginner. You have to have a case with the bullet seated at the correct depth to set the crimping die.

1. At the crimping die, start with an empty case that has the mouth expanded. Not having the bullet makes it easier to feel things. Turn the die down to where the case touches the die, it doesn't have to be exact at this point, just close. Turn the die nut finger tight to remove the slack in the threads.

2. Insert the bullet in the case. Back out the seating plug so it will not hit the end of the bullet and move your handle to the end of the seating stroke. Screw the plug down until it touches the bullet. In most cases you can continue screwing down the plug to seat the bullet. Adjust until the case end is in the crimp groove on the bullet. You are not setting the die in this step, just getting the cartridge to the correct length. (I have seen guys do this step in a vise and with a small mallet so they could see the seating depth.)

3. Next will be adjusting the crimp. The crimp is dependent on the case length and the position of the groove in the bullet. Begin by backing out the seating plug a few turns and loosening the die nut. With the press at the end of the seating stroke turn the die down to where the contact between the die and the case is solid. Now you can adjust the crimp so it is just visible in the groove. With the cartridge seated in the die tighten the die nut.

4. Now is the time to adjust the bullet seating depth. With the finished cartridge seated in the die turn the seating plug down to where it contacts the bullet and tighten the locking nut. You now have the die adjusted.

As mentioned earlier, the crimp depends on the case length. I sort by length in .005 increments. 1.275-1.279, 1.280-1.285, ... Start with cases that measure the shortest (or longest) and reset the seating/crimping die when you change case lengths.

Don't worry about feeling like a dummy. Most of us are guilty on that count. It just doesn't seem that it ever stops.

 

[GooMan]

Some thoughts from the thread starter:

Several people have mentioned making some dummy rounds. We thought that would be a good idea and have already done that.

"it will also give you an excuse to buy a new 17 cal rifle."
My 9 yr old son just got a 17 HMR for Christmas. That is a fun little gun to shoot.


"I use this to weight down the primers in the tube as it feeds, which helps with the last few; further, you can add a little flag or a colored line or whatever to the dowel to indicate when you're about out (mine has a piece of tape as a flag)."

That sounds like a really awesome idea, thanks!

I do understand the "crimp" on a 45 is just to remove the bell.

Jesse Heywood, your description really helped me understand that much better. Thanks a bunch!