jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,305
I find it hard to argue against this, once you have the other stuff figured out, that’s really all I wind up using unless I am just after vermin and need to kill a number of them at a time.
Sub Moa Challenge?
- Thread starter Hugger-4641
- Start date
I find it hard to argue against this, once you have the other stuff figured out, that’s really all I wind up using unless I am just after vermin and need to kill a number of them at a time.
nastynatesfish
Member
We did this here a number of years back. 10-5 shot groups with one rifle. It was fun. But back then people were bitching about the cost of ammo, I couldn’t imagine now. I do this pretty often. I’d rather shoot off bipod being that would be my normal normal hunting shot. Or off the back of my backpack. But my 300win mag and Grendel will both print it fairly easy.
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armoredman
Member
Sheesh...all I can say is looking at you guys, I am pretty bad. I'm happy when I get groups like this;
One really good group...over one lousy one.
CZ 600 Alpha with SIG WHISKEY 3 scope.
The advertising blurb says, "The Alpha was designed as the rifle that can do it all and we guarantee it can get it done in sub-MOA style. The light-weight aluminum receiver balances the semi-heavy barrel for a combination that won’t weigh you down while being very tolerant to a wide variety of loads. Versatile, durable, and reliable, the Alpha gets it done."
So, based on groups like THIS, I am not getting it right...quite yet.
Suggestions? I just started shooting a .308 bolt action - my other bolters over the years have either been milsurps or my long lost and greatly lamented CZ 527M in 7.62x39mm.
One really good group...over one lousy one.
CZ 600 Alpha with SIG WHISKEY 3 scope.
The advertising blurb says, "The Alpha was designed as the rifle that can do it all and we guarantee it can get it done in sub-MOA style. The light-weight aluminum receiver balances the semi-heavy barrel for a combination that won’t weigh you down while being very tolerant to a wide variety of loads. Versatile, durable, and reliable, the Alpha gets it done."
So, based on groups like THIS, I am not getting it right...quite yet.
Suggestions? I just started shooting a .308 bolt action - my other bolters over the years have either been milsurps or my long lost and greatly lamented CZ 527M in 7.62x39mm.
OP
OP
Hugger-4641
Member
Those are good groups, but what ammo are you using?Sheesh...all I can say is looking at you guys, I am pretty bad. I'm happy when I get groups like this;
One really good group...over one lousy one.
CZ 600 Alpha with SIG WHISKEY 3 scope.
The advertising blurb says, "The Alpha was designed as the rifle that can do it all and we guarantee it can get it done in sub-MOA style. The light-weight aluminum receiver balances the semi-heavy barrel for a combination that won’t weigh you down while being very tolerant to a wide variety of loads. Versatile, durable, and reliable, the Alpha gets it done."
So, based on groups like THIS, I am not getting it right...quite yet.
Suggestions? I just started shooting a .308 bolt action - my other bolters over the years have either been milsurps or my long lost and greatly lamented CZ 527M in 7.62x39mm.
MarshallDodge
Member
@armoredman
i see more horizontal dispersion in your groups. Are you using a rear bag to support the rifle when you shoot? Is the trigger pull weight in the heavy side?
i see more horizontal dispersion in your groups. Are you using a rear bag to support the rifle when you shoot? Is the trigger pull weight in the heavy side?
armoredman
Member
The loads listed in the pictures, Gold Medal Match in two, and one handload in the first.
armoredman
Member
Trigger is set on factory, lightest setting, no rear bag right now.
It depends really, one has to first be honest with one's self. By this statement that's no issue obviously you can.
With 3 shot groups to truly assess capability and get a reasonable idea of what one can do "on demand in conditions" you're gonna need to shoot more than one group.
If you shoot 5 "consecutive" groups how many are "good" vs "bad".
The thing is it doesn't matter if 1 is sub MOA, the 5 average sub MOA or all 5 are sub MOA, one can claim to shoot sub MOA.
However they mean very different things when it comes down to the challenge of doing it "on demand".
Adding a rear bag to a bipod with good technique is about as good as it gets for removing your influence on the gun.
armoredman
Member
Never used a rear bag - how does that work, and what is a good one to get?
MarshallDodge
Member
It doesn't have to be fancy. A tube sock filled with rice works. I use a small pillow like bag with airsoft BBs.
Or a simple bag like this
Tactical Rear Squeeze Bag
Shop our best collections of Tactical Rear Squeeze Bag online. We have the highest quality and the most functionality Tactical Rear Squeeze Bag in the market. Buy Now!
www.crosstac.com
Using A Rear Bag | Precision Rifle Shooting with Todd Hodnett
Todd Hodnett of Accuracy 1st discusses how to properly use a rear bag while shooting a rifle. Todd Hodnett is one of the most respected, sought after and inn...
youtu.be
Also, make sure you are directly behind your rifle when shooting.
Like Todd shows in the video for bench or prone shooting the rear bag makes a third point of contact that you can adjust so that the rifle is basically just sitting there stationary.
When I'm testing ammo on 22s I use a more benchrest approach and relax my cheek weld and move my shoulder just off the butt and I'll take my hand off the grip and just put my thumb on the back of the trigger guard and pinch the trigger with finger and thumb.
It's a little different from practicing for PRS positional shooting or hunting where the time element requires more shooter input and you have to make your input as consistent as possible.
someguy2800
Member
I make my own rear bags from the bottom of old pairs of jeans filled with plastic beads.
I've still got a bunch of bags I use for guns without bipods made from empty 25# shot bags filled with good old sand.
They have to be at least 30 years old now.
someguy2800
Member
Here is another one with the PSA / AAC 77gr precision ammo
Rifle is this mixmaster AR15. I put 2 of them together with the same NBS 16” barrels I bought a few years ago. One had a 1-4 on it for 3 gun, and the other has a 3-9x40 for a beater DMR/hunting/varmint setup. Naturally the one with the 3-9 shot 2 moa and the one with the 1-4 shot 1 moa so I switched the scopes.
Rifle is this mixmaster AR15. I put 2 of them together with the same NBS 16” barrels I bought a few years ago. One had a 1-4 on it for 3 gun, and the other has a 3-9x40 for a beater DMR/hunting/varmint setup. Naturally the one with the 3-9 shot 2 moa and the one with the 1-4 shot 1 moa so I switched the scopes.
7 times has been the most so far....5 of which you could cover with one hand, behind the shoulder, once in the pelvis, once in the head.That's your opinion, fine if works for you, 3 shot groups work fine for me. I don't think I've ever shot at a single large game animal more than twice .
It was also shot in the foot, but that wasnt my fault! That started that whole mess....
Anyways, its pretty rare to need more than one round, very, very rare to need more than two on one animal......
Sometimes tho.....
As to the op.
I have a few rifles that if you ask for a MOA group id be willing to bet i could give you one.....
Ive had WAAAAAAAY more that would shoot one now and then, and averaged somewhere between 1.5-2, which is still plenty accurate for an average hunting gun imo.
someguy2800
Member
What kind of animal? My brother in law shot the biggest buck of his life a few years ago and it just stood there with no reaction. He thought he must have missed so he jacked another and shot again. When we butchered it the bullet holes were an inch apart, perfect double lung shot. How it just stood there with no reaction after being double lunged I'll never know.
1200+ lb feral bull
Deer probably just went ridged when hit, ive seen then do that a few times.
someguy2800
Member
I've seen them just go stiff legged and then slowly fall over. This one jumped and ran 150 yards after the 2nd shot
Huh yeah topple or stand there. Guess he had more go than most
mcb
Member
You guys don't use your deer rifle in the weeks leading up to the season to do some varmint control while scouting? I have gone through a fair amount of ammo in a evening of armadillo control.
