Subcompact auto ?

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BlkHawk73

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I've never fired any of the sub-compact autos (Rami, G26/G27, Kahr PM, etc) i guess the closest I've come is shooting a Sig 239 in .357Sig. I was just never realy interested in these diminutive autos. Now for some reason, I've caught myself taking 2nd and even a 3rd look at some of them. (P2000sk specifically) Can anyone give a firsthand report on the shooting comfort, recoil and fun of these littel guys? Already have a few CCW guns so this purchase would primarily be just a range plinker for fun. thanx guys! :)

Oh, no need to sell me a particular model, the only ones that are comfortable to hold are the Rami and P2Ksk. :p No sence to hshoot what isn't comfortable to even hold. ;)
 
I have a Springfield XD9Subcompact 9mm pistol. Its shoots very very accuratly and recoil (subjective) isnt bad at all. With the Grip extension, the pistol is very comfortable to shoot.
 
I've carried a G26 for many a year now. It's comfortable to shoot and pretty durned accurate. The recoil is minimal as well. I'd have no trouble taking one plinking or to the range!! It will also take up minimal space in yer range bag, which leaves more room for ammo!!! ;)

Other sub compacts I have or have shot are:

  • Glock 36: there is a lot of backward oomph when this little puppy goes off, but it ain't as bad as people say!! It's accurate, but, because of the aforementioned "oomph", follow up shots are a bit dicey!! It's not a quick double tap weapon!! It's also not a "shoot a case of ammo through it in an afternoon" gun!!

    G27: I don't care what other people say, the recoil on this puppy is to sharp for me!!! Maybe that's why I have it's smaller brother!! ;)

    Kahr MK9: Not a bad gun!! Recoil is fine, although, I have never fired the +P+ rounds, out of it, that it was designed for!!! :eek: The MK9 Elite 98 has probably the best OTB trigger that I have ever experienced. Mine serves as my "mouse gun"!!
 
Another vote for the Springer XD9. Don't currently own one,
and have never shot one; but I'm impressed with the ones
I've handled in my dealer's showcase.

Also, the G-26 and G-27 are winners; without all the bells
and whistles of the XD series.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
I have owned a few and these are my observations:

Kahr P9...Very light and slim weapon but since the polymer frame weighs about as much as 2 pieces of paper, the snap of the weapon will surprise you. 200 rounds is about all I could put through it in a range session. Not a pleasant shooter, but easy to carry and sufficiently accurate.

Taurus 605, easy to shoot .38 and .38 +P....but once you go to full house .357 Mag...look out. I shot 150 158gr. .357Mags through it which actually peeled the skin off my palm. OUCH.

Kahr K40....Great little gun, sufficiently accurate, heavy trigger, all steel so it is weighty. As small as the Kahr P9....but heavier. Still own this one, though it is in a death struggle competition with my XD9 Subcompact for the holster.

Kel Tec P9...Lightest smallest of the bunch. Heavy trigger, not terribly inaccurate but not a target shooter. Not sure about the reliability.....I've shot this one but haven't owned it yet.


XD Subcompact 9mm...when I first got this, I was surprised by the snap it gave compared to it's bigger brother, the tame XD9 4 inch service model. Not that the recoil is excessive, just not the same as the 4 inch. I would like to try the XD 40 subcompact but I believe that the recoil in this would be a bit much for quick follow up shots. The 9mm however is great, 13 round mags, great trigger, a tiny bit smaller than the kahr and more accurate. I recommend this one. I will soon find out if it can feed 147 gr. silver tips.
 
I recently picked up a PM9 (polymer frame). I only have 150 rounds through it but so far it seems quite managable. I need to work on my accuracy without using the extended mag as I intend to pocket carry sometimes. The recoil is not really bad at all with 115 grain standard loads, haven't tried any +P yet although I intend to. I can't say that I personally overly enjoy shooting it. If I was shooting/plinking as you describe I'd probably shoot something else but hey if you are looking for something new you may find mastering the two finger grip challenging and fun. I bought mine as BUG and for summer carry situations that restrict me to pocket carry.

So to summarize and answer your question: Shooting comfort is good and recoil easily managable. Fun plinker? Jury still out on that :) That's my 2 cents.
 
You will love the P2000SK. It is the softest recoiling in .40 S&W, which normally I think it a bit too much in these subcompact sized guns. The RAMI stung my trigger finger to the point of being painful and I quickly sold that thing-it was a .40, 9mm would probably be better. You have a great selection out from which to choose these days. I personally think the Walther P99 subcompact in 9mm is a good value. It has a super short reset and can be rapid fired accurately to say the least. The .40 in the P99's is a bit much for me. The P2000SK has a squared recoil spring which really helps attenuate the recoil. The P2SK is great in the .40 loading. I like a longer heavier initially pull or additional safeties like the XD sub offers. Try as many as you can, wait a bit for the P2000sk to come down to a more earthly price. Good luck.:)
 
Thanx for the responses fellas. Just can't get excited by the Kahr and Glock models. Visually unappealing and not comfortable to me. each person's hand is diff so I guess these just weren't meant for me. Not a big deal.
My father-in-law just bought a Rami in .40, but I won't be able to try it until Christmas time when we visit. Kinda perfer a 9mm because I've already got more of those than any other auto chamberings and since it's just a range gun, it'll be less expensive to plink with. Another reason for going with 9mm is that I'm hoping the glimmer of home security interest the wife has shown may promt a range time or two with her. Would rathr have the easier shooting 9mm for her than a heavier recoiling cartridge.
I do appreciate the responses! Keep 'em coming!
 
i agree with 45R except for grip extension i dont shoot as well with it on mine even though i got big hands and as said recoil is subjective
 
With practice and a firm two hand hold most of those pistols are as effective as their full size relatives. The small full caliber autos are, for me, easier to shoot than small framed revolvers. 9mm is a good caliber.

If you want a .40 make sure it fills your hand so you can get a good grip. The recoil is managable, but the muzzle flip can be hard to deal with, especially for quick follow up shots.

I do not think you could go wrong with either of the pistols you are interested in.
 
CZ RAMI

I highly recommend the CZ RAMI. It is an excellent little pistol. I have two RAMIs and my son has one. We shoot them a lot and find them to be very accurate and reliable. All our RAMIs are in 9MM. We chose 9MM because of the low cost ammo and that most all our other CZ pistols are 9MM. Therefore we have a very large number of magazines to use in the RAMIs. Also the recoil in 9MM is very controllable, making extended range sessions enjoyable.

Best regards.
 
I've got a Kahr P9 Covert that I really like: accurate, dependable, and lightweight.

Ditto. I've had mine for little over a week and have 600rds through it already. Had some FTE's during the recommended 200rd break in, but it's running smooth now. Haven't tried +P through it.

Glock 36: there is a lot of backward oomph when this little puppy goes off, but it ain't as bad as people say!! It's accurate, but, because of the aforementioned "oomph", follow up shots are a bit dicey!! It's not a quick double tap weapon!! It's also not a "shoot a case of ammo through it in an afternoon" gun!!

I agree. I traded my G36 towards the P9.
 
The Kahrs are very nice. I've fired the metal and polymer framed little guys and they have nice triggers and function reliably.

I really need to look at the RAMI. I love my CZ-75, and this could be the perfect backup for it. I'm afraid it's a bit too wide for this role, however.

I'm going to buy one of them in the next 6 months.
 
I've got a RAMI in 40 and was pleasently suprised. Not punishing at all. But then I am a recoil junky and wanted something a little tamer than the SP-101 in .357 Mag of my friend's that I'd been shooting.

The 9mm is supposed to be downright pleasent.

Haven't tried the P2000 so I couldn't give you a comparison.
 
I would rate the P2000sk above them all but they are not cheap. A close second for me is the Glock 26/27. Great little pistols that are easy to shoot well.
 
Although I've handled & shot a fair number of them, I only own a small number of pistols I consider to be subcompacts ...

A CS45, CS9, G26 & G27.

The S&W Chief's Specials are my favorites when it comes to predictable, fast-handling, manageable, accurate little pistols. I've come to prefer the predictable TDA platform in the S&W line over the last 15 years, although I more or less started my shooting life as a SA shooter in both pistols & revolvers.

The CS45 shoots much better than it "feels" while simply holding it. That short, fat grip actually helps provide for good recoil recovery regarding bringing the muzzle back online with the target. The CS9 is my favorite of the two, for both the easier & quicker recoil impulse in a diminutive pistol, as well as the slightly smaller grip frame profile which just exactly fits my hand. The crisp & clean SA trigger break of both CS pistols makes for accurate shooting with follow-up shots. The TDA action generally takes more training & practice for some folks, though ... and that's a training & familiarization issue.

The Glock 26 was my first personally owned Glock, and I selected it after careful consideration and a lot of shooting with Glocks of all calibers over the years (except the newest .45 G.A.P.). While the unique grip angle of the Glock frame does take a bit of adjusting, after shooting most every other make, model & caliber of common defensive pistol ... and the standard trigger is less predictable and crisp than other designs ... that's more or less just a training issue, as well. The platform itself is fairly accurate, and the G26 has shown itself to be acceptably accurate for defensive use. True, I can't quite get it to consistently equal the potential accuracy of my 3913 or CS9 ... but I'm confident that a few more thousand rounds downrange will maximize my ability to wring the most accuracy out of the little pistol. After all, I've only fired a little over 1700 rounds through it since I bought it.;)

I picked up the G27 for the simple reason that I enjoyed the performance of the G26 so far, and I've come to respect the .40 S&W as a decent defensive caliber. I already have a couple other .40 pistols, so the G27 isn't the only platform in this caliber for me.

The G27 does exhibit a bit more perceived recoil and muzzle blast, but again, this is a training issue in my case. I've only had the G27 long enough to have fired a little over 500 rounds through it, and already it's becoming almost as "easy" to run through the training & qualification scenarios with it as it is with the G26, even considering the 9mm pistol's advantage of less perceived recoil. Decent little pistol.

I don't particularly care for long-stroke DAO pistols. The Glock's "constant double action" Safe Action DA trigger is about as close I personally care to go in that direction. That's why I've never felt interested in owning a Kahr, although I've handled and shot a number of them which belong to other folks in my agency. I will say that my G27 is much easier ... for me ... to shoot well than a MK40 I recently used.

The SW99 .40 compact I've fired a couple of times has a much better trigger than the G27, and it was VERY accurate ... but then I already said that I prefer the much shorter & faster SA reset of some TDA pistols, and the Walther & S&W 99 series is one of them. I may eventually own a SW99 Compact in 9mm, and perhaps .40 S&W ... someday. It certainly "feels" more compact and streamlined in my hands, but that's just a subjective user perception.

Don't care for the CZ line, so I don't have much to say about them.

Haven't handled and shot a new P2000, so I can't offer an informed opinion about it, yet.

While I've gained a little familiarity with the XD pistols, it was with the standard models, and I haven't tried one of the subcompacts, yet. Blocky, ugly little buggers, though. Makes me want to try one some time.

I'm not sure I'd pick up anyone's subcompact just as a range pistol, but that's just me at this stage in my shooting life. I certainly was attracted to little pistols as a younger shooter, just to experience them. Nowadays the smaller pistols (and revolvers, for that matter) are considered and carried more for their convenience in carrying size ... and everything else is sort of a compromise that's "acceptable", in order to achieve the desire of being able to carry a defensive weapon that's still reasonably powerful & accurate. Larger pistols (and revolvers) will always offer the advantages of increased sight radius, increased velocity, better "heft & balance", lessened muzzle blast, better recoil control & manageability, better overall ergonomics when it comes to filling my hand, etc., etc.

I don't carry a CS9, S&W 642, or even the new G26, because they're a "better" choice for a personal defensive pistol in "all" considerations ... I carry them because they're an "acceptable" compromise in "many" off duty situations when compared against carrying a large, "full size" service weapon. Not all of the time, mind you ... but most of the time.

Okay ... they're sort of fun & enjoyable at the range, too.;)

Just my thoughts.

But to each their own ... which is how it should be, right ?;)
 
RE:Subs

My experience.

PM9, very good for CCW, accurate, but it's not a range gun, not enjoyable to shoot 100-200 rounds at a time.

G26, good for CW, and range gun. It's accurate, I could shoot it all day. Moderate recoil, muzzle flip.

G27, more intense muzzle flip and recoil, but still more enjoyable to shoot than the PM9

RAMI 9mm, great for CCW, weighs ~5 oz more than G26, and has less flip and recoil than the Glock, due to the extra weight.

RAMI 40S&W, better for CCW (IMHO), less muzzle flip than the G27, accurate and a good range gun too. It's my pick of the ones I listed.
 
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