Suggest a good AR?

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ShootAndHunt

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Finally want to buy an AR rifle. But compared to the hunting rifle, I am pretty new to the AR rifles. I want to use it mainly in range for shooting and hunt small games afield. Could you tell me currently who makes a good AR rifle (and the specific model)? I only know Bushmaster, and not familiar with their models yet. Want it to be a well made, accurate (at least within 200 yards) and reliable rifle (not too expensive too:).

What is the price? My experience is that they usually cost more than other rifles, why?

Is adding a scope to the AR rifle easy?

What is the difference of the pre-ban and post-ban AR rifles? Could you find an AR chambered for 5.56 NATO (just found from the previous thread that it is a little different from .223 Rem)?
 
I personally would stick with Bushmaster, Colt, Armalite, RRA, or DPMS for a complete rifle. I give Olympic a conditional maybe. I have a pre-ban Olympic, and it is a great rifle, but I have read enough complaints about new ones to be hesitant to buy another. Prices will run you roughly 700.00 on up, depending on configuration. The Olympic "Plinker" and the Hesse/Vulcan AR15 are versions I would avoid. The possible problems do not offset the roughly $100.00 savings over one of the better models by other manufacturers. A specific model is hard to pin down, which will depend entirely on your needs/tastes. I suggest perusing the websites of the various manufacturers.

You mention mounting a scope. I would suggest getting a "flat top" version (usually termed an A3 or A4 depending on the manufacturer).

Any quality AR will be accurate out to 200 yards with reasonably quality ammo.

A quality AR will be reliable, as long as you maintain it properly.

A pre-ban AR was manufactured as a complete rifle prior to September 15, 1994(enactment of the so-called "Assault Weapons Ban). Pre-ban rifles can have a bayo lug, flash suppressor (on a threaded barrel/not permanently attached), and a collapsible stock. Because of this the market has placed a premium on pre-ban "assault weapons", including the AR. However, the market is getting a little softer, as there are plenty of people that believe the AWB will sunset in Sept 2004 WITHOUT a replacement.

Finally, if you want to save on the Excise tax, you can order a lower receiver (stripped-you install the various components), or complete, and buy an upper receiver assembly separate.

Sorry for the long post...

Oh yea, if you are in KALI, then that is a whole 'nother story.....
 
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I agree with everything MiniZ said. In addition, you won't go wrong by making sure your AR is made to 5.56 standards; most are. You pretty much can't go wrong with Bushmaster, and if there's a problem they have a very good customer service department. Here's a link to some good prices:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bushmaster_Rifles.html

You can save a little money with Rock River, and they're also highly regarded. Some people swear by Colts (expensive), and others have had good luck with DPMS (less expensive). I don't think I would buy any brands other than what I mentioned, even though I'm sure there are plenty of good Armalites or Olympics out there.
 
MiniZ and SteelyDan both have good advice.... My son and I both have DPMS's and they both shoot great, but, just about any of the major brands are good ar15's.....go and handle some and just pick the one that fits you best...............
 
Regarding which AR to get, it would be easier to name the ones NOT to get. However, I'll name a couple good ones.

If you like the compact carbine look of the new M4s, I might suggest Rock River Arms (RRA) new R4 carbine. It's a neat little rifle using a short buttstock and good looking muzzle brake (looks like a birdcage flash suppressor.) It's got a lot of custom touches like a Hogue grip (all my ARs have Hogue grips), M4 handguards (big), and a different rear sight assembly than the traditional carry handle. It's a flat-top receiver, so you can remove the rear sight and slap any optic you want on it. The retail is $875, but I'll bet dealers have them for less. Check it out in Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement.

If you like the more traditional look of the M16A2, I would look into Bushmaster's XM-15E2 series of rifles. I would get the 20" barrel-length rifle with full-length buttstock. I probably wouldn't get a muzzle brake on this rifle, but be sure to select the A3 variant which has the flat-top receiver (to mount optics easily.) These rifles are top of the line in fit and function.

Regardless which specific rifle you buy, I would be sure and get one that has a chrome-lined bore/chamber (most do, except for the cheap ones and the "target" models.) It will last longer and won't need the cleaning an all-steel bore/chamber will require.

Happy shopping- read a TON and figure out EXACTLY how you want to customize it BEFORE you buy it. Many of the modifications are limited to the specific style of rifle you chose to begin with. For example, if you want to replace the handguards with a free-floating tube, be sure to get one without a permanently attached brake. Of course, all problems can be fixed, but often costs more than the prevention.
 
You are getting good advice here. BM, RRA, DPMS are all good names and you won't go wrong with any of them..

G
 
Guys, also reading with interest. If I wanted to put optics on an A2 configured model, what's the process? Is it recommended and/or possible?
 
Could you tell me currently who makes a good AR rifle (and the specific model)?
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Almost any of the major brands mentioned above will be good, reliable ARs that more than meet the criteria you have outlined for reliability and accuracy. However, all manufacturers occasionally produce lemons and this is true with ARs as well. I have found Colt to be the most consistent in good quality ARs; but my customer service experience with them has been horrid. Bushmaster is currently my preferred AR brand. They do tend to have more minor issues (excessive windage required to sight in, purplish hue to parts) than Colt; but their customer service is good about fixing them and they rarely have major issues.

Having said that, I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rock River, DPMS, or Armalite either if the price was right. There are also the kit houses like JT, Model 1, etc. They can be good if you have a limited budget and don't do a lot of heavy shooting; but if you do a lot of shooting budget an extra $100-$150 to replace or fix things that go wrong on it.

What is the price? My experience is that they usually cost more than other rifles, why?
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For one of the known quality brands mentioned above, plan on about $700-800. If you are willing to take chances on used parts or parts kits and build your own, you can get them down into the $550-650 range; but it isn't uncommon to see issues with those rifles either. I'd do some research before I went that route to minimize future problems.

Is adding a scope to the AR rifle easy?
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If you buy the flattop version it is.

If I wanted to put optics on an A2 configured model, what's the process? Is it recommended and/or possible?
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Well, you will be limited in your choice of optics. You will either need to buy one of the scopes specifically designed for the A2 carry handle or you will have to buy a rail to mount in the handle and then mount the scope to that. This may cause issues with being too high over the bore to get a good zero and also causes poor stockweld for many people. A third option is to buy a bilevel rail that mounts the optics at the proper height but out over the handguards - this only works with optics that have unlimited eye relief though (basically red dot/reflex type sights).

In addition, any time the scope is removed from the handle (and that could be a lot since an AR15 with carry handle already is pretty thick in that dimension and barely fits into many cases and racks - not to mention cleaning), you will need to rezero it.

I've owned an A2 and mounted an ACOG (designed for the A2 carry handle) in it and even with a very-high end scope built especially for that purpose, I still found having a flattop much more convenient.
 
Thanks a lot, guys! I will go to my favorite gun store soon to check the AR out. I won't save a $100 ~ $200 bucks since the quality is the most important in the long run. Prefer to get a one with chrome barrel and chamber, maybe with a flat top for optics use.

But I am still not sure how to find out a AR rifle is made according to the military 5.56 NATO specification but not the civial .223 Rem? (want the former since it is believed to be better and stronger.)

I might post some favorite models after visiting the gun store. Still need to do some document research and reading homework before buying. Want a good quality one, don't want to keep upgrading it like my ruger 10/22.
 
I am firmly entrenched in the Bushmaster camp because I feel they offer the most features and best quality for the dollar. I have also had nothing but positive experiences with them.

Course Armalite, Colt, Rock River and DPMS make a fine product as well with Rock River probably being the next best in terms of product for the money. Rock River also seems to have a better trigger.

If you are looking for a field/hunting gun I also agree that a flat top with removable carry handle/A2 sights would be the way to go and give you the most options. Me, I like iron sights and think the AR has some of the best around so I tend to stick to A2 carry handles.

I would definitely get a 5.56 NATO chamber as that will allow you to shoot .223 with no problems. A .223 chamber will be tighter and maybe a bit more accurate but may cause malfunctions with 5.56 Nato Ammo.

Muzzel brakes on ARs look very cool but are totally un-necessary as there is simply no recoil to speak of.

Get a full A2 stock as they seem to be the most comfortable and best for accuracy.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the UBERVARMINTKILLER3000 models as a standard AR15 is usually pretty darn accurate for most people. I have talked to people who shoot highpower with very basic AR15s so I am not sure if it would be worth the extra cash for a "VARMINT" model.

Hope this helps.

Chris

P.S. The horsey is all you are paying extra for.
 
But I am still not sure how to find out a AR rifle is made according to the military 5.56 NATO specification but not the civial .223 Rem? (want the former since it is believed to be better and stronger.)
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The 5.56mm NATO chamber isn't stronger really, it just has a different throat dimension. If you fire a NATO-spec cartridge in the tighter throat of a .223 chamber, it can cause malfunctions in the ARs and occasionally stuck cases, pop the primer, etc. The NATO chamber emphasizes reliability at the expense of a little bit of accuracy.

Colt barrels are chambered for 5.56. All Bushmaster barrels but the stainless steel match versions are chambered in 5.56. Several other manufacturers chamber for both 5.56 and .223 (DPMS even makes a 5.56mm chamber barrel marked .223 :rolleyes: ) and Rock River offers the Wylde chamber which is kind of between the 5.56 dimensions and the .223 dimensions.
 
Here's what I did. I ordered the RRA lower. Got it for $225 with transfer. When the funds were available again, I ordered the upper for $425. Now this did not come with the 2 stage trigger, but I got the set up for about $100 to $150 less due to no excise tax. RRA quality is equal to the Bushmaster. Cannot speak for the others since I have not owned them. But I did at one time have an old SP-1 AR-15 from Colt. When I was getting my second AR, I almost bought a Colt again, but the quality of the machine work around the front sight and other cast parts was really rough. Thats why my second was a Bushmaster. As someone else mentioned too, I had to adjust the windage quite a bit to the side to get it to shoot straight. But if I had decided to keep it, Bushmaster would have corrected that problem. Stay away from teh Bushmaster mini-Y compensator. I did not like mine, as others have mentioned on many discussion boards too. The angle of the holes throws a blast of gas in your face when you shoot. That's why I sold my second one. The third is a keeper! Check out the photo. It is a mid length grip on a 16" barrel.
 

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Mounting Optics

quadzilla, the rail on the flat-top will accept any weaver type mount. Most red-dots will mount directly. The best scopemount is the Armalite one piece base and rings. It is very strong and puts the scope at the right elevation. I don't recommend mounting optics on the carry handle.
 
I saw a post on AR-15.com from the designer of the Wylde chamber. I think his name was Bill or something like that. but it was an interesting read why they did it. Best of both worlds!
 
I'm another staunch Bushmaster supporter, having just recently gotten my third upper from them. However, I've also handled Calanctus' Rock River, and the quality of it appears to be almost as good if not as good as Bushmaster. I'd have no qualms about recommending a RR, though I prefer BM myself.

Given your requirements of a 5.56 NATO chamber and chrome lined bore, Bushmaster and Rock River are probably going to be your only options. Last I checked, they, and Colt, were the only major manufacturers offering both those options. But I for one can't stand Colt's whimsical trigger/hammer/takedown pin size variations. Also, make note that while chrome lining is standard on Bushmaster barrels (with a few exceptions), it is only available on certain RR models.

Bushmaster will also do gunsmithing work for free if you buy the parts from them. And, just as a bit of an anecdote, the last upper I got from bushmaster, I ordered online on a wednesday morning. Or, rather, I ordered all of the parts to assemble an upper in a configuration not normally offered by them, and requested that they be assembled into a complete upper. It shipped that afternoon and was delivered that friday. Not a bad turn around for a custom upper.
 
dont flame me too much .. but... the civilian model m16 is called an 'AR' becuase the original military rifle was produced by Armolite under the AR designation, right? :eek:
 
guns'ahoy, sorta but, the only relationship that the armalite of THAT day has with the armalite of today is the name.
 
guns, yes that's correct. But it's equally correct that that Armalite company has almost nothing to do with the current Armalite company. I'm not dissin' them, but it ain't your father's (grandfather's) Armalite.
 
this is my range/ small game ar...

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rock river...
a2 lower, 20" wilson SS barrel, 223 wylde chamber, EOP upper....

just have to get a rear sight that will work one day
 

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