Suggestions wanted on owning an FAL

Status
Not open for further replies.

H2O MAN

member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,438
Location
USA
I post the question because I know Ash and other THR
members appreciate and understand the FAL very well.


I would be a first time buyer and know very little about the platform.
I've handled a few, but I've never fired one.


I would be looking for something refined and modernized.
If possible... I would want an FAL that was on par with an M14 refined and modernized by SEI.


Thanks :)
 
So you're looking for an FAL for the 21st century?

I'd say have something built for you from DSA. Their SA58s are amazing.
 
DS Arms makes new US-made FALs that are very, very nice. Prices start somewhere around $1500 depending on model and your local dealer. Reviews are that they are perhaps the best FAL ever made.

DS Arms also has STG58's that are made from some imported parts, but cost half as much and still have a very good reputation. Just not all brand new made in the USA goodness.

No, I don't work for DS Arms.

My local dealer has some Imbel-made (Brazil, and Brazil used to have the FAL as their issue rifle), Springfield Armory (?) marked FALs in stock, they are quite nice also. I think they have been out of production for at least 8-10 years, maybe more.

Beware anything that is no-name and made from a used parts kit.
 
Beware anything that is no-name and made from a used parts kit.

replace Beware with Be aware, and it would be good advice.

My advice, buy the cheapest FAL you can find. If you have no desire to learn much about your weapon, buy something with an Imbel or DSA receiver. Shoot it some. Decide if you like it. If you do, decide what refinements and modernizations you really want. Then either upgrade or buy something that fits your desires.
 
Be careful about buying a Century built FAL. Try looking here for more information http://www.falfiles.com. You will have to register to read the forums but you will find a wealth of information.
 
Century built may not be a problem. The usual problem with FAL's are Hesse receivers (or those that are unibrows). There can be other problems, but that is the main one.

H2O seems to be really into modifying his rigs, so I would not think he would have to stay solely within the DSA realm. There is no better receiver than an Imbel. There are more aethetically pleasing receivers, but the Imbels are as good as it gets. DSA's are equally good, as are Israeli's, many Entreprise, and Argentine receivers. DCI's can be good, too.

Any rifle made by ARS will be good, AZEX-made rifles are excellent. Springfield Armory Israeli and Brazilian FALs (SAR 48 and 4800) are great. DSA's are, of course, great, as well as many Entreprise models. Heck, even the Hesse FALO's are pretty good (but their Century stuff is generally crap).

As to modern designs, I already consider the FAL to be a modern design. If you mean carbine-length or with rails, that is strictly a user-desired option that can be addressed in so many ways. But, given the love of Chicom M14's, I would say to for a good Imbel FAL as a starting point, preferably with an STG-58 parts set, but an Israeli set is wonderful, as are the British or Australian parts sets. I would advise against getting R1a1 marked FAL's because they can be from some pretty abused kits.

Ash
 
WEG,

My STG58 with 5x POSP shoots South African surplus with the same pattern. Not bad for that ammo, though. Quality ammo shrinks groups.
 
Just buy the cheapest one you can find that works. Swapping parts on a FAL requires either a screwdriver or a pipewrench, and the problem with even the Century monkey-rifles is only due to out-of-spec receivers and bad feedramps.
 
My local dealer has some Imbel-made (Brazil, and Brazil used to have the FAL as their issue rifle), Springfield Armory (?) marked FALs in stock, they are quite nice also. I think they have been out of production for at least 8-10 years, maybe more.
I have had one of those Brazilian SAs for about 20 years now. Mine is the HB model. It is superbly accurate and I can't recommend it highly enough. I don't know what they are asking for them now, but mine was $645 all those years ago. At it's highest, during the AW ban, I saw one for $2400.

100_0338.jpg
 
"...Century built may not be a problem..." Anything built by Century is suspect at best. They have no concept of what QC is. They assemble rifles out of parts bins and don't bother ensuring the rifle is safe to shoot.
"...would want an FAL that was on par with an M14..." You can't have an M14. It's consider to be an MG by your ATF. In any case, the FAL beat the M14 in all U.S. military tests except for accuracy in the tests run in the 1950's. There is no FAL that is "on par" with an M14 or M1A.
 
My FAL has shot some pretty good groups but if you are looking at a stock marksman's rifle, the M1A has the better reputation.

Probably better to just go that route from the start if accuracy will wind up being the primary concern.
Having said that, I don't consider the FAL at all innaccurate - mine shoots better than any AK I've ever owned, any AR/M-16 I've ever fired, and probably better than 3/4 of the scoped deer rifles in PA.

As for the actual rifle, try a DSA STG-58. I've "upgraded" the sights on mine to para flip rear sights. As the rifle is zeroed, it should allow me to walk my shots in with fairly decent accuracy out to a little over 400 yards just by flipping to a different rear aperture (don't have a range that far to try it at though).
That's just about the maximum effective range of my shakey trigger finger and four-eyed eyesight anyhow...

I also have an Enterprise STG carbine that I've had to work on to get it reliable. Seems OK now but I haven't really tested it that much yet since fixing it. IMO, it's not the equal of a DSA but Enterprise did offer to fix the rifle for me for free. All I had to do was ship the rifle back to them, eventhough I bought the rifle used from a THR member. I chose to fix it myself since it cost me $12 to get the defective part modified (cheaper than shipping it back), but I still appreciate good customer service.
So I might try one of theirs if I couldn't afford a DSA.
 
Sunray, in the world of FAL's, Century is not automatically suspect. The biggest two problems encountered were crappy receiver (easily solved, buy one with an Imbel or Argentine receiver) and crappy two-piece gas piston. Again, that was easily fixed with a Tapco replacement. The latter may occur on any FAL, the former is easy to avoid. Century fire control groups were adequate, not great, but adequate, and Century furniture was fully usable.

Their FAL builds were much higher quality than their CETME builds. MUCH better. Indeed, in the FAL world, the only concern is generally the receiver. There are no problems with ground bolts. Of course, if it is a thumb-hole sporter, the pistol grip stud is often removed, but that doesn't affect function (but it does require a replacement of the lower to go to standard furniture).

Ash
 
The only reason someone would find a Century Arms FAL 'suspect' is because DSA has set their expectations unreasonably high for a weapon that was designed as a standard issue military rifle.

DSA FALs are some of the most awesome .308 semi autos on the planet. And they're pricey. Pricey enough that I got a PTR-91 first. (notice, I did not say /instead/... :D)

But the DSAs are rifles for the really near-OCD gun crowd that obsesses over every detail of performance (and in case you're wondering... yes, I'm guilty of that more often than not :uhoh: :) ). Your other FAL options are going to be more similar to the ones that were actually issued to the various militaries that selected them. That could mean problems that require a part replacement out of the box, but still likely more affordable than a new DSA.
 
<$0.02

H2O MAN,

by refined and modernized are you refering to rail forends and dust cover/scope mounts? or the folding stock option of the para?

if so these are homegrown mods you can do to any FAL clone you buy. for the para mod, you would be well advised to buy the stock screwdriver/recoil spring retainer tool or risk wearing the springs.

at the risk of ruffling feathers and starting an onslaught of angry replies...back in the day, FN was the only game in town.
even the "browning" FAL's were just brand marked FN. the para models sold for more than a standard LAR (50.00), but for resale the fixed stock was more expensive. this due to the longer recoil springs in the stock being more tolerant of ammo variances.

i have owned century, heese, imbel and FN. some day, DSA will also be on that list. of those listed, the imbel full length was the most accurate.

it would shoot 5rds of american eagle into about 1 1/8-1 1/4", sandbagged rest, under the old style leopold EXTRA heavy duplex 1x4. not a one time fluke, but common on a day the shooter was doing his part. had to use "X" type targets to determine point of aim for very heavy duplex. not really a target scope as the thin bars of the duplex covered over an inch @ 100yds. but even before illuminated reticles this (to my knowledge, no longer made**) duplex was visible in any light that allowed target acquisition @ 1X, and not wash out your vision as many illuminated reticles do.

the imbel carbine would do about 2".

a century L1A1 had the bbl cut just behind the threads, and would shoot about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4". same-o for the FN.

the heese carbine would shoot about 3-4", but suspect the trilux/SUIT optic or mount had repeatability issues due to poor retaining spring system.

overall accuracy observations---the standard length 21" bbl with the "match" flash supressor seemed to be the ideal vibration length/weight distribution for the standard 150gr (+,-) ball ammo.

not sure about the DSA offerings, as noted above, but all of the FAL variations i owned prefered american eagle ammo. did not find ANY 160-170gr ammo they liked.

these opinions based on ONLY the iron i have owned, as such, they will not be found written in stone beneath the sphynx on indiana jones' next adventure.

you may detect a hard-core FAL addict here. GOOD insight on your part. but if reliability is the main criteria, i feel the HK mfgd 91 model, and the M1A have both got a slight advantage there. the FAL is not a good choice for very sandy environments, but this can be helped some with the british "sand cut" bolt carrier. the magazines are also slightly weaker than the '91 or M1A. however, if one is using an inch pattern upper, the BREN 30 chance mags are heavy duty designs on par with both.

if accuracy is top priority, the better made AR-10 clones win easily, but you had better keep them CLEAN. the HK PSG-1 is also very accurate, sell your car and buy one. for carbine sized iron look to the HK G3K. the later will probably be only half of the proceeds from your car sale.

still, MY ~overall~ rating prefers the FAL, for more various reasons than i feel inclined to get into here. and I WOULDN'T go with the opinions of somebody else, if i were you. find an owner of the flavor you are interested in. negotiate a one time rental at the local range with you supplying the ammo.

gunnie

**the "heavy duplex" designated reticles leo sells in 1X4 optics now are NOT as thick as the older offerings.
 
I've had an inch pattern L1A1 for some time, only issues were the lack of inch magazines. The metric mags are supposed to function, but I tried one, only a so-so fit.

The inch mags were just about onobtainable for years. But lately I've found them all over the place, and cheap too!

So I went from having one inch mag that worked to having a pile of the mags.

It's a fine rifle, not my favorite, but never jams, and is decently accurate.
 
Deer Hunter So you're looking for an FAL for the 21st century?

Precisely :cool:


W.E.G. If you want a FAL that's an M14, I suggest the M1A.

I've owned one M1A, it was problematic - I'll not own another.
I prefer Poly Tech and Norinco M14s,
 
I have owned 3 in the past 2 were imbel and both had problems, one had a super tight chamber the bullets after the gun got warm would not chamber and and if it did not cool down enough the round would chamber then would not extract.

The other one just was not accurate at all might of been in the 30 moa range no joke either

Then I got a DSA model and it was pretty good 2 moa or so with optics and bench rest. I had to sell it due to financial problems a few years back and now I am on my feet again but I have left the black rifle eara of my life and have gone to black powder.
 
All the suggestions are very nice. However, I'll give you a few pictures you can drool over.

Standard "Tactical" model
SA58TACP.gif


One made for casual long range shooting
SA58GWOLF.gif


One out of your price range complete, but I'm sure you could built one to this spec.
SA58SPR.gif


And what the hell, I'll throw in an NFA item as well.

SA58OSWNFA.GIF
 
Eric F,

"I have owned 3 in the past 2 were imbel and both had problems"

were these entirely imbel {of brazil} built weapons imported by springfield armory SAR 48 or 4800 models, or kit rifles built on imbel recievers?

gunnie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top