Super Blackhawk vs NM superblackhawk
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dmazur
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I'm not a Ruger expert...but I believe the Blackhawk got a larger frame size when Ruger went to the Super Blackhawk.
The New Model refers to the addition of the transfer bar mechanism and the changing of the lockwork to use the loading gate to unlock the cylinder rather than a hammer position.
Many still prefer the original model as it is closer to a Colt, but there are lots who prefer the safety of the transfer bar (lets you load 6 instead of 5).
The New Model refers to the addition of the transfer bar mechanism and the changing of the lockwork to use the loading gate to unlock the cylinder rather than a hammer position.
Many still prefer the original model as it is closer to a Colt, but there are lots who prefer the safety of the transfer bar (lets you load 6 instead of 5).
W.E.G.
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BCCL
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New Model Blackhawk's are .30 carbine, .357 magnum, .44 special and .45 Colt and .41 magnum.
New Model Super Blackhawks are .44 magnums built on a bigger frame.
dmazur is correct, the "New Model" designation for both, is that they have the new safety system.
New Model Super Blackhawks are .44 magnums built on a bigger frame.
dmazur is correct, the "New Model" designation for both, is that they have the new safety system.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
All post 1973 Ruger single actions are New Models (note capitalization) and until 2005 all Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks were built on the same frame. Read on...
The original .357 Blackhawk was introduced in 1955. It featured a receiver size and grip frame (aluminum grip frame) close to that of the Colt SAA. They are now affectionately known as "flat-top" due to their perfectly flat topstrap. These were offered in 4 5/8", 6½", 7½" and 10" lengths. While they went through some design changes including the grip profile, topstrap configuration and ejector housing, they remained on the same Colt sized receiver and only 4 5/8" and 6½" barrels were available from 1962 until their discontinuation in 1972.
The original .44Mag Blackhawk, also known as "flat-top", was introduced in 1956. It featured the same grip frame as the .357 but with a larger receiver. These were available in the same lengths as the .357, except no 4 5/8". This gun went away in 1962 in favor of the Super.
The original Super Blackhawk was introduced in 1959 and featured the same "size" receiver as the earlier flat-top. It now had the "ears" on the topstrap, a different rear sight, a longer steel "Dragoon" grip frame and an unfluted cylinder. Only 7½" and 10" barrels were offered.
These original Blackhawks were also built in .30M1, .41Mag and .45Colt, all on the large frame.
In 1973 all the traditional guns, now called "Old Models", were discontinued in favor of a new design utilizing the transfer bar ignition and what would be termed "New Model" lockwork. Now all the Blackhawks are built on the same, identical large Super Blackhawk frame. Only the markings differ. These include .30M1, .32H&R/.32-20, .357/9mm, .38-40/10mm, .44Mag/.44-40 and .45Colt/.45ACP convertibles, the .357Mag, .41Mag, .44Mag and .45Colt. Then the Vaquero was also built on the large frame in various chamberings, only with fixed sights. This was true until 2005.
In 2005 Ruger introduced two new guns. The 50th anniversary .357 Blackhawk and the "New Vaquero" (in .357 and .45Colt). Both built on a smaller, mid-sized frame of the early .357's. Also with a new steel version of the old XR3 grip frame of the original 1955-1962 flat-tops.
Then in 2006 Ruger did a 50th anniversary of the .44Mag Blackhawk complete with flat-top frame, XR3 grip and 6½" barrel. They also did a special run of .41 Blackhawks based on this gun.
In 2009 they did a 50th Super Blackhawk with high polish bluing and some gold inlay.
Now there are mid-frame Blackhawks, based on the 50th .357 platform, chambered in .44Spl in 4 5/8" and 5½" lengths, blued and stainless, with XR3 and Bisley configurations. Some standard catalog items, some distributor exclusives.
The new 8-shot .327Federal is also on the large frame.
The original .357 Blackhawk was introduced in 1955. It featured a receiver size and grip frame (aluminum grip frame) close to that of the Colt SAA. They are now affectionately known as "flat-top" due to their perfectly flat topstrap. These were offered in 4 5/8", 6½", 7½" and 10" lengths. While they went through some design changes including the grip profile, topstrap configuration and ejector housing, they remained on the same Colt sized receiver and only 4 5/8" and 6½" barrels were available from 1962 until their discontinuation in 1972.
The original .44Mag Blackhawk, also known as "flat-top", was introduced in 1956. It featured the same grip frame as the .357 but with a larger receiver. These were available in the same lengths as the .357, except no 4 5/8". This gun went away in 1962 in favor of the Super.
The original Super Blackhawk was introduced in 1959 and featured the same "size" receiver as the earlier flat-top. It now had the "ears" on the topstrap, a different rear sight, a longer steel "Dragoon" grip frame and an unfluted cylinder. Only 7½" and 10" barrels were offered.
These original Blackhawks were also built in .30M1, .41Mag and .45Colt, all on the large frame.
In 1973 all the traditional guns, now called "Old Models", were discontinued in favor of a new design utilizing the transfer bar ignition and what would be termed "New Model" lockwork. Now all the Blackhawks are built on the same, identical large Super Blackhawk frame. Only the markings differ. These include .30M1, .32H&R/.32-20, .357/9mm, .38-40/10mm, .44Mag/.44-40 and .45Colt/.45ACP convertibles, the .357Mag, .41Mag, .44Mag and .45Colt. Then the Vaquero was also built on the large frame in various chamberings, only with fixed sights. This was true until 2005.
In 2005 Ruger introduced two new guns. The 50th anniversary .357 Blackhawk and the "New Vaquero" (in .357 and .45Colt). Both built on a smaller, mid-sized frame of the early .357's. Also with a new steel version of the old XR3 grip frame of the original 1955-1962 flat-tops.
Then in 2006 Ruger did a 50th anniversary of the .44Mag Blackhawk complete with flat-top frame, XR3 grip and 6½" barrel. They also did a special run of .41 Blackhawks based on this gun.
In 2009 they did a 50th Super Blackhawk with high polish bluing and some gold inlay.
Now there are mid-frame Blackhawks, based on the 50th .357 platform, chambered in .44Spl in 4 5/8" and 5½" lengths, blued and stainless, with XR3 and Bisley configurations. Some standard catalog items, some distributor exclusives.
The new 8-shot .327Federal is also on the large frame.
CraigC;
Are there Now 45LC in mid size(3 screw 357) and large frame? Or just one size. If so, which size. I have some conversions for me. An over sized 45 in a mid sized stainless will be the first. I made one in blued but a friend had to have it. It seemed a lot smaller, and he smiled and wouldn't give it back. I figured it was pretty right to get that reaction.
Many thanks.
Are there Now 45LC in mid size(3 screw 357) and large frame? Or just one size. If so, which size. I have some conversions for me. An over sized 45 in a mid sized stainless will be the first. I made one in blued but a friend had to have it. It seemed a lot smaller, and he smiled and wouldn't give it back. I figured it was pretty right to get that reaction.
Many thanks.
Since I'm getting to be an old geezer (LOL) it's not surprising that the OM Rugers are always my preference. I would even go so far as to say I prefer the Flat-top old models in 357 Mag and 44 Mag even more. (smiley face goes here)
Dave
Dave
Dave T;
I used to travel to Mesa a lot. The old 3 screw 357 always was a favorite....... in 45.
You can fit 6 Smith sized bullets(.500) in a large frame. I was going to try to fit a 475 of the same ilk in a mid frame............ I have no shame.
What is the basepin to barrel measurement in a mid frame? anybody know off hand?
I used to travel to Mesa a lot. The old 3 screw 357 always was a favorite....... in 45.
You can fit 6 Smith sized bullets(.500) in a large frame. I was going to try to fit a 475 of the same ilk in a mid frame............ I have no shame.
What is the basepin to barrel measurement in a mid frame? anybody know off hand?
BCCL
Member
257X50 said:
Which is what I said. Whether it's a Single Six, Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk, the "New Model" refers to the presence of the transfer bar safety.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
.44Mag's and .45Colt's have always been built on the same large frame, New and Old Models. In other words, there is absolutely no difference between the Super Blackhawk and the other large frame Blackhawks except the markings and chamberings.
The only mid-frame .45 is the New Vaquero. Not a Blackhawk but it's less money to add adjustable sights to a fixed sight gun than it is to convert a mid-size .357 to .45Colt.
Bowen has effectively converted the mid-frame New Models to a five-shot ..44Mag, .45Colt and .50GI. There is also enough room for a .500S&W-based wildcat, cut to .44Spl length. Pressures must be kept low, with velocities in the 700-800fps range.
The only mid-frame .45 is the New Vaquero. Not a Blackhawk but it's less money to add adjustable sights to a fixed sight gun than it is to convert a mid-size .357 to .45Colt.
Bowen has effectively converted the mid-frame New Models to a five-shot ..44Mag, .45Colt and .50GI. There is also enough room for a .500S&W-based wildcat, cut to .44Spl length. Pressures must be kept low, with velocities in the 700-800fps range.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
There are "old model" and New Model Super Blackhawks, in caliber .44 Magnum. ("Old model" is not a term used by Ruger, while New Model is a trademark.) The "old model" was manufactured from c. 1959-1972, has three screws on the frame and has an action based on the old Colt SAA (but with coil springs). These almost exclusively had 7 1/2" barrels, unfluted cylinders, longer steel grip frames and ejector rod housings, a square-backed trigger guard and a more polished bluing than standard Blackhawks. Unaltered, they were not "drop safe" with the chamber under the hammer loaded.
The New Model is ID'ed by two pins on the frame and, of course, the New Model logo. These have a totally different action than the "old models," i.e., a transfer bar to make them drop safe and the loading gate is opened to rotate the cylinder. There are many more variations - e.g., different barrel lengths, blued or stainless steel, scope ring cutouts, etc. - on the New Model.
The New Model is ID'ed by two pins on the frame and, of course, the New Model logo. These have a totally different action than the "old models," i.e., a transfer bar to make them drop safe and the loading gate is opened to rotate the cylinder. There are many more variations - e.g., different barrel lengths, blued or stainless steel, scope ring cutouts, etc. - on the New Model.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Better look again!
CraigC;
The lower pressure rounds are a hoot! And really effective. A 475 6 shot in a large frame has about the same chamber to chamber wall as the mid frame 45. And throwing one oz. bullets at lower velocity can be real effective. even in a 3 inch storekeepers monel.
Pressure is a strange beast to chase. The outer wall on a mid frame or large frame in 45 are the same.
So the custom heavy cylinders for heavy loads can give you an edge, but watch out for the balance between the 2 thin parts of the chamber. Then watch the bolt notch. It sure ain't linear..........
Now is a 475 six shot mid frame about the same as a 500(Smith sized bullets) six shot large frame ??????????????
The lower pressure rounds are a hoot! And really effective. A 475 6 shot in a large frame has about the same chamber to chamber wall as the mid frame 45. And throwing one oz. bullets at lower velocity can be real effective. even in a 3 inch storekeepers monel.
Pressure is a strange beast to chase. The outer wall on a mid frame or large frame in 45 are the same.
So the custom heavy cylinders for heavy loads can give you an edge, but watch out for the balance between the 2 thin parts of the chamber. Then watch the bolt notch. It sure ain't linear..........
Now is a 475 six shot mid frame about the same as a 500(Smith sized bullets) six shot large frame ??????????????
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