suppressor?

[opr1945]

Just saw an article on suppressors for Glock 43.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/suppressing-the-glock-43-xcaliber-firearms/

Is a suppressor the same thing as a silencer? and aren't they illegal without a permit? which is hard/expensive to get? what gives?

 

[hso]

Common mistake.

Fed law doesn't require you to get a permit for a suppressor/silencer. You do have to pay the $200 transfer tax and submit to the background check. You also have to get the signed approval of your local Police Chief or Sheriff. Waits are 6-9 months for the paperwork to cycle back so you can pick up your suppressor.

I'm not aware of any state that allows suppressors that requires you to have any sort of state permit for them.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Suppressors have even been legal in Michigan for a few years now.

 

[dogtown tom]

hso .... You also have to get the signed approval of your local Police Chief or Sheriff.

Only if applying as an individual. CLEO signoff is not required for trusts or corporations.

Waits are 6-9 months for the paperwork to cycle back so you can pick up your suppressor.

My last four Form 4's came in at 105/110/121/117 days.

 

[yugorpk]

Silencers were invented in 1912 by Hiram Maxim. They were sold by his Silenced Firearms Company until the NFA essentially put him out of business. They cruised along with their given name "silencer" for over 60 years until some hack writer for Soldier of Fortune decided that they would be more marketable to police agencies and gov't acquisition departments if the name was changed to "suppressor" because only hit men used silencers on Kojak. The name on the form to buy one is "silencer", the given name is "silencer". The regulating body, the ATF refers to them as "silencers" and most companies selling them refer to them as silencers. Look up "silencer" in the dictionary. You know what you'll find. What it actually does is immaterial. If I fill one with molten steel and weld the ends up it would still be a "silencer". If it made the gun louder it would still be a "silencer".


Few other devices in common use are renamed by a third party because that third party wants the name to better reflect their actual function. Suppressor is a marketing term.

Proud owner of 9 silencers. Working on 10. Don't be a stooge for a SOF Hack.

FWIW my last trust form 4 came in under 3 months.

 

[the Real Alpo]

Yugorpk, that was most beautifully put.

I only own one, but it's not "suppressed". It's a silenced pistol.

(Insert really bad cropped picture, here)

 

[Nuclear]

They were MARKETED by the inventor as "silencers" because that would sell more of them than "sound suppressors", so the name comes from a marketing hack. There is NO silencer on the market that makes a gunshot silent. If you have a device that makes a gunshot quieter, it is a silencer per the ATF. If you make a device that makes a gunshot louder, it isn't a silencer, per the federal courts.

I believe they are now legal in MI, and hard / expensive is relative. Aside from the multi-month wait for the ATF approval and the $200 tax, the price ranges from $300 on up.

 

[yugorpk]

It doesnt have to make anything silent to be a silencer. Thats a given name that was given by the creator of the devices. If you invent something you get to name it.. Thats the way it works no matter how much of a hack you are. I named my oldest son Hunter. He doesnt have to hunt anything.


If you have any or all of the parts of a silencer it doesnt matter what it does. Its a silencer. Ask SIG about that.

 

[opr1945]

I have a Ruger Mark 22/45 pistol with a threaded barrel.. I see supressors/silencers for it on ebay for $20 or so and up.
So do they work and do I need a permit to purchase/own one?

 

[USAF_Vet]

there are faux suppressors on ebay. a REAL suppressor can not legally be sold on ebay, and certainly not for $20.

Yes, they work, but not like Hollywood/ TV shows make it sound. A good suppressor will pretty much eliminate the report of a subsonic .22lr, though.

No, you do not need a permit. You need an ATF tax stamp, which you will receive after an extensive background check, months of waiting, and a $200 fee.

Stay out of federal prison, don't buy anything advertised as a real suppressor on ebay, craigslist, or most other community buy/sell/trade sites.

 

[opr1945]

Okay, my bad.

I have a Ruger Mark 22/45 pistol with a threaded barrel.. I see supressors/silencers for it on ebay for $20 or so and up.
So do they work and do I need a permit to purchase/own one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-So...Matte-Black-/161785758553?hash=item25ab2ec359

I see they call them Compensators/Muzzle-Brake. still same thing?

Sorry for my error. thanks.

 

[basicblur]

As Ygorpk put it...when you talk suppressor to any of the folks that are important (i.e. can throw you in jail) most have no idea what you are talking about.

When I was trying to decide between individual and trust, I was talking to the folks at the local PD to make sure they would sign off if I went individual, and they had no idea what I was talking about when I said suppressor. When I said silencer, everybody knew exactly what I was talking about.

Nowhere on any of the ATF forms does it mention suppressor.
Silencer & muffler are the terms used on the ATF forms - nary a mention of suppressor anywhere in any documentation I've been through.

As such, I now just call 'em silencers so anybody that matters is on the same page.

 

[Theohazard]

No, you do not need a permit. You need an ATF tax stamp, which you will receive after an extensive background check, months of waiting, and a $200 fee.

The ATF doesn't do a background check. Once your paperwork is submitted to the ATF it's currently taking about 4 to 5 months to get your tax stamp back, and during that time there's no actual background check taking place.

Once the tax stamp comes back, you fill out a 4473 like you were buying any other firearm. If you got your silencer (or other Title 2 firearm) through a trust or corporation, your dealer then does a normal instant backgroud check like they would for a normal gun. If you had a sign-off by your chief law enforcement officer that exempts you from the instant background check. Some states have different rules, but that's how it is in most NFA-friendly states.

 

[Theohazard]

Okay, my bad.

I have a Ruger Mark 22/45 pistol with a threaded barrel.. I see supressors/silencers for it on ebay for $20 or so and up.
So do they work and do I need a permit to purchase/own one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-Sol...item25ab2ec359

I see they call them Compensators/Muzzle-Brake. still same thing?

Sorry for my error. thanks.

I don't understand this post. You already asked this question in post #9 and USAF_Vet answered your question in post # 10. Then you asked the same question again in post #11?

Again: No, the silencers on eBay aren't actual silencers. And again: No, you don't need a permit to buy a silencer.

The item for sale in the link you posted is a muzzle brake, it's not a silencer or even a fake silencer.

 

[Theohazard]

Yugorpk: I agree 100% with post #5. I get SO sick of hearing the same line, "It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor!" over and over again. Really? So an inventor doesn't get to name his invention? Should we tell the biggest manufacturer in the business, SilencerCo, that their name is incorrect? Should we tell Silencer Shop -- the biggest online retailer and distributor in the country -- that they need to rename their store? The Form 4s for each of my silencers says "silencer" on it, are they all invalid?

If you want to use the newer term "suppressor", that's fine. But don't correct people who use the original term, because "silencer" is more correct from both a historical and legal perspective. And when you say, "It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor!" all you do is show that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and that you know nothing about them.

(This isn't aimed at anyone in this thread, it's just aimed at the huge number of people in the gun world who constantly try to correct people for using the word "silencer". Sorry for the rant, but those people drive me crazy.)

 

[Elkins45]

Okay, my bad.

I have a Ruger Mark 22/45 pistol with a threaded barrel.. I see supressors/silencers for it on ebay for $20 or so and up.
So do they work and do I need a permit to purchase/own one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-So...Matte-Black-/161785758553?hash=item25ab2ec359

I see they call them Compensators/Muzzle-Brake. still same thing?

Sorry for my error. thanks.

That device would actually make your gun louder.

 

[kanook]

If you want to use the newer term "suppressor", that's fine. But don't correct people who use the original term, because "silencer" is more correct from both a historical and legal perspective. And when you say, "It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor!" all you do is show that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and that you know nothing about them.

So what you're saying is "Liberty Suppressors" has "absolutely no idea what they are talking about"? https://libertycans.net/

 

[dogtown tom]

Theohazard Quote:

Originally Posted by USAF
No, you do not need a permit. You need an ATF tax stamp, which you will receive after an extensive background check, months of waiting, and a $200 fee.

The ATF doesn't do a background check.

Well, ATF has the FBI do the background check.....just like any other firearm transfer.

Once your paperwork is submitted to the ATF it's currently taking about 4 to 5 months to get your tax stamp back, and during that time there's no actual background check taking place.

There is if the Form 1/3/4 is filed as an individual.

Once the tax stamp comes back, you fill out a 4473 like you were buying any other firearm. If you got your silencer (or other Title 2 firearm) through a trust or corporation, your dealer then does a normal instant backgroud check like they would for a normal gun.

The Form 4473 and the ATF FFL Newsletters as well as both of my IOI's say.......a background check is not required for NFA.

Some states (like Washington) require ALL firearm transfers to have a background check run prior to transfer.

 

[Theohazard]

If you want to use the newer term "suppressor", that's fine. But don't correct people who use the original term, because "silencer" is more correct from both a historical and legal perspective. And when you say, "It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor!" all you do is show that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and that you know nothing about them.

So what you're saying is "Liberty Suppressors" has "absolutely no idea what they are talking about"? https://libertycans.net/

That's not what I'm saying at all. Does Liberty claim anywhere on their site that the term "silencer" is incorrect? Show me where they say that.

Again, use any term you want; I use the terms "silencer", "suppressor", and "can" interchangeably. But when people correct others for saying "silencer" and claim that term is incorrect, they're just showing that they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Theohazard]

Once your paperwork is submitted to the ATF it's currently taking about 4 to 5 months to get your tax stamp back, and during that time there's no actual background check taking place.

There is if the Form 1/3/4 is filed as an individual.

I've been selling silencers and other NFA items for over 3 years now, but I admit that I've never once handled a CLEO sign-off; here in western Washington those are extremely rare. I was under the impression that the CLEO sign-off was an exemption to the background check, but apparently that impression was wrong.

I'll ask you this though: How do they have enough information to run a proper check? During a normal NICS check, lots of detailed personal information is used to properly identify the person and avoid misidentifying them with someone else, but on the Form 1 or Form 4 the only personal information on there is your name and address. Is there some extra personal information submitted with a CLEO sign-off that I'm not aware of because I've only ever processed paperwork submitted via trusts and corporations?

Once the tax stamp comes back, you fill out a 4473 like you were buying any other firearm. If you got your silencer (or other Title 2 firearm) through a trust or corporation, your dealer then does a normal instant backgroud check like they would for a normal gun.

The Form 4473 and the ATF FFL Newsletters as well as both of my IOI's say.......a background check is not required for NFA.

Some states (like Washington) require ALL firearm transfers to have a background check run prior to transfer.

My experience at FFL/SOTs is as a salesman and retail manager, so I have less experience with the compliance side of the business than someone like you, but it was always my impression that this was an ATF requirement and not a WA state requirement. I remember back in 2012 the old shop I worked at didn't run NICS checks when transferring NFA items that were purchased through a trust or corporation, but then we had an ATF audit where that was corrected.

I thought that correction was simply the ATF changing their mind on the subject like they often do. I know there are a lot of FFL/SOTs around the country who don't run checks on trust or corporation transfers, but I figured that was simply because they hadn't gotten audited recently and they missed the memo.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I think the Europeans call them "moderators".

I don't get upset if either "suppressor" or "silencer" is used, but I think if you take a poll of non-shooters you will find that they think that a "silencer" is an assassin's tool. Even some shooters seem to think so. More education needed.

The facts are, a [fill in the blank with your term-of-choice] reduces noise levels for shooters, bystanders, neighbors, and animals. This reduces the risk of permanent damage to hearing. It reduces muzzle blast and perceived recoil, which is especially helpful for new shooters.

 

[pjeski]

I'll ask you this though: How do they have enough information to run a proper check? During a normal NICS check, lots of detailed personal information is used to properly identify the person and avoid misidentifying them with someone else, but on the Form 1 or Form 4 the only personal information on there is your name and address. Is there some extra personal information submitted with a CLEO sign-off that I'm not aware of because I've only ever processed paperwork submitted via trusts and corporations?

I've never actually seen an FBI fingerprint card but I'd guess it has everything they need.

 

[Captains1911]

I own three suppressors. They are legal in about 40 states. The term "suppressor" and "silencer" are interchangeable. The inventor, Hiram Maxim, named them "silencers," and so that is how they are identified per the NFA, and likewise that is what the ATF calls them. My tax stamps all say "silencer." The word "suppressor" is commonly used because of the fact that they do more to suppress the sound than they do to silence it, similar to a muffler on a car. You do not need a special permit to own one, just the NFA tax stamp.

 

[dogtown tom]

About one in six Form 3's I get for silencers show "Suppressor" as the type of firearm being transferred.

I don't think ATF sees it as much of a problem as the interwebs do.
Either term is correct........but I would love to see one come in with "Can" on line 4b.

Imagine how many posts in a thread titled:

Silencer vs Suppressor vs Muffler vs Can.....which is correct?

 

[Elkins45]

^^^^ Actually the correct term is "hearing protector"