SURPRISE Bush In Iraq

[ravinraven]

Wicked witch of the east??

I resent that remark. I know a few real witches and they are decent people.

I'll bet it cost us a lot more to ship Hitlary's A$$ to A'stan than it did the president to Iraq. Hitlary's thing was planned and they had to beef up security to keep her from her just desserts. Plus she has a contingent of SS following her all over. Bush just buzzed in and out. No time for the Democrat Party's Baghdad Boosters to prepare for action.

A damn cool move!

rr

 

[MicroBalrog]

I think it was Winston Churchill who made the observation that politicians are always looking ahead to what's best for the next election, while a statesman is always looking to do what's best for the future of the country. For me, that description is as clear as any when the discussion is Clinton vs. Bush. geegee

Three letters: AWB.:banghead:

 

[Blackhawk]

Three letters: AWB.

Noted.

Questions:

1. Did he sign the AWB? No.

2. Has he given political cover to Congress by exercising the veto? Not much if at all.

3. Does he let Congress hide behind him on politically sensitive issues? Doesn't appear so.

4. Has he said he would sign an AWB extension if Congress passed it? Yes.

Might it just be that he thinks that Congress should do the legislating exercising the collective will of the people through their Constitutional Republic instead of imposing his own will on everything Congress decrees?

That's refreshing to me. It's a situation that forces members of Congress to be responsible for what they believe instead of depending on the parachute of the presidential veto. If an AWB extension ever makes it to his desk, our anger should be directed at Congress as it should be with every piece of crappy legislation that gets passed. I believe the veto was intended to be used only under dire and extreme circumstances, and it's been abused in the past.

 

[geegee]

Three letters: AWB.

Should we get to that point, I'll be as PO'd as the next guy, but we haven't yet. I don't want to derail this thread into a pro vs. con GWB thread, but like most conservatives, I'm less than thrilled about his domestic policies. As far as dealing with the prosecutuion of the war and his leadership, I'd give him pretty high marks. geegee

 

[AZLibertarian]

You guys have made all my points, so if for no reason but to keep this thing bumped to the top, I'll chip in...

This has to be the coolest thing ever. Keeping your Dad (and a former President himself), Mom, and Wife unaware of your Thanksgiving plans, as the press is reporting, so that he could fly halfway across the globe in the fully-marked (but blacked-out) AF1 to a spot where a SAM hit a civilian plane this week, just to hang with the troops he commands, is the ultimate in coolness. [Note to self--Gotta work on those run-on sentences]

Yeah, if you're a Bush-hater, you could look at this as nothing more than an election-year stunt, and question how much this cost. And I've got to agree with the many others who've pointed out that there is much of his domestic agenda that I don't agree with. But in the foreign policy arena, and especially in the WOT, Bush as been perfect.

 

[LawDog]

I may have my reservations about W as President, but is his performance as Commander-in-Chief, the man has my complete admiration.

This Thanksgiving treat for the troops took one heck of a set of stones, I'm here to tell you.

LawDog

 

[budroe]

From up on the Afghan border I have to say that President Bush's visit to Baghdad was a huge morale boost to all American personnel in the region. Obviously he can't be everywhere at the same time. A visit to Baghdad is the same as a visit to every troop location in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the entire Middle East. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, I would just like to say that I feel quite proud knowing our President took the time out of his schedule to visit this part of the world on Thanksgiving. I don't think he'll get one extra soldier's vote because of his trip (he is already going to get a huge amount of support from the armed forces). Political, maybe to some. Supportive to the men and women in the field; definitely!! Personnally, I greatly prefer being away from home on this holiday fighting terrorism in this part of the world. The option is fighting the same conflict at home with our families in much greater jeopardy. Happy holidays

 

[nualle]

I am impressed by his adroit political sense. He seems to have effectively covered his heinie from the blunder of overproducing his last publicity-stunt-in-uniform.

As for this showing him to be a great c-in-c... let him stand court martial first for desertion. I personally, don't think anyone who has deserted the service (and that already cushy service contrived to keep him safe from danger in Vietnam) should subsequently be allowed to hold authority over any servicemember. Maybe we need a constitutional amendment barring any deserter from holding our highest electoral office. The founders could only be aghast at the need for such a provision.

The very same soldiers he is now given credit for "rallying," he knifed in the back earlier this year by pushing through a big package of cuts to veterans' benefits.

GWB is no great leader. He's the sachem of the sound bite, the hierophant of the photo op.

 

[kenehsr]

I think he did a good thing for the troops by going over there and being with them. It was a good morale boost for the troops. The troops have to face death every day. So for him to take time out on a holiday and spend it with them I belive that is a good thing.

 

[Angus MacDuff]

I guess George listens to his advisors evey now and then. Good PR, but otherwise a waste of money.

 

[Thumper]

otherwise a waste of money

Tell that to the troops.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Geegee, I think you may have read into my statement more than what was implied. I think GW is every bit adroit a politician as Clinton. Recognize that being a "politician" doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

I watched and re-watched the footage of GW's entrance and subsequent speech to the troops with a lump in my throat. The reaction of the soldiers was incredible.

Was this a political move? I don't think it was purely so, but it sure will help him next year. The fighter jet flight to the aircraft carrier was also a mix of politics and support for the troops.

Clinton was an expert at photo-ops. The difference between Clinton's and GW's is that the latter have more of a genuine feel to them, and they certainly are show-stoppers.

I've been a big fan of GW's since the beginning, worked phone banks for his campaign, and still admire him tremendously. But there are many times when he's let me down: the Patriot Act and the drug prescription plan are two of my biggest gripes. I'm not going to just sit here and say "GW, right or wrong."

As for those who would say that he tried to play it safe by serving in the Air National Guard, there are many former pilots here on THR who would submit that flying jets is not a "safe" task.

 

[Browns Fan]

No doubt! George Bush is a class act. Seeing him serving soldiers chow in the Mess Hall line was awesome!

 

[geegee]

As for this showing him to be a great c-in-c... let him stand court martial first for desertion. I personally, don't think anyone who has deserted the service (and that already cushy service contrived to keep him safe from danger in Vietnam) should subsequently be allowed to hold authority over any servicemember. Maybe we need a constitutional amendment barring any deserter from holding our highest electoral office. The founders could only be aghast at the need for such a provision

So if you were a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard, you're actually just a deserter, and one deserving of court martial? That's a refreshing perspective, and one I think might be debated by one or two who post here.

While a stint in the Air National Guard didn't guarantee a tour in Viet Nam, I believe a great many of their pilots were rotated over there with great regularity. I never served, so I'd certainly defer to someone who knows better than I.

Geegee, I think you may have read into my statement more than what was implied. I think GW is every bit adroit a politician as Clinton. Recognize that being a "politician" doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

Nope,I understood your point. I just disagree with your assessment that Bush is "as adroit a politician as Clinton." That doesn't mean that Bush's advisors aren't every bit as skilled politically as Clinton's, but the driving force behind these two men are as different as night and day. Clinton is so self absorbed and self indulgent, that life out of the national spotlight is like a slow death sentence. I guarantee you that when GWB is out of office, it will be back to Crawford and on to the next stage of his life.

For Clinton, the Presidency of the United Staes was all about him. For Bush, it's putting American interests first. You only have to see that footage of him walking out to address those troops yesterday, to get a good idea of what he's really like. He's often emotional in front of his troops, recognizing that he has the ultimate respoonsibility for their lives. He is humbled by them, and it shows. Clinton's opinion of the military was widely known, and never changed up until the day he left office (and is still shared by his wife today). geegee

 

[matis]

geegee said
_________________
For Clinton, the Presidency of the United Staes was all about him. For Bush, it's putting American interests first. You only have to see that footage of him walking out to address those troops yesterday, to get a good idea of what he's really like. He's often emotional in front of his troops, recognizing that he has the ultimate respoonsibility for their lives. He is humbled by them, and it shows.
___________________________________________________________



Very well said and, IMO exactly right on.






matis

 

[El Rojo]

I think there are so many good things about the President's little trip. I think my favorite is Paul Bremer getting ready to bore the heck out of everyone there and saying, "The senior official should read the message, let me see if I can find someone else more senior to do it."

Why else would the troops go nuts? They thought some big shot weenie was going to come out and bore them after waiting around and low and behold, it is the CinC!!! It just makes me feel are warm and fuzzy inside right now to think about it. It was perfect.

And the cost issue is not even a factor. The President is the Commander in Chief. Do we expect our commanding officers not to go and inspect the troops? It is his job!!! If you were the boss of the company, would you always stay at the office or home and never travel out to see how your managers and employees were conducting business? You have to get out once in a while and make sure things are going as planned. Relying solely on others to make assessments and decisions is not always wise.

And did he just go and eat with them and take some pictures? No he had on an apron and was serving troops dinner. Jesus said that being a leader was to be a servent (I forget the exact verse and tried to find it).

As much as the Democrats and others might try to find a flaw in that trip, it isn't going to work. You want to talk about Teflon, that trip was Teflon.

I might be naive or incorrect, but I would like to wager a trip like that might have been a huge part in the next election. The only flaw in such an argument would be that we still have over a year to go and that is a really long time in the mind of a forgetful electorate. I believe that trip just earned Bush a whole lot of votes he might have been losing.

And one more thing. Who did I see from the press on the big network news this morning talking about the trip? It was none other than Jim Angle from Fox News who was one of the few press allowed to go. I didn't see any ABC, CBS, or NBC correspondants on that trip. I hope and am fairly certain that was no accident.

I guess what makes me feel so good about this thing is it was a great blow to the liberals while being such a great thing for the rest of America. Just knowing that Hilary's trip was outstaged by it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I bet she was pissed!

 

[zelmo73]

I'll really be interesting to see the Iraqi reaction to Bush's visit.

The Baath party supporters, not to mention the Al Qaeda members that every anti-Bush-ite claims isn't there in Iraq right now, are probably more than a little ticked off that they missed their opportunity to kill the man responsible for singlehandedly destroying the majority of their power infrastructure.

 

[citizen]

Additionally, zelmo73; I've read that TCMITS over there was fairly unimpressed, even resentful (if at all aware of the event) that he was ignored. Responses whined it was political for Americans; had no benefit for them at all. (DUH!!!) Oh, well.....!!!!!

 

[Orthonym]

Looked like the Prez's eyes were wet in the picture I saw. Unlike the previous guy, when W weeps, I think he means it. Doesn't mean I don't think he may have wrong ideas, or is badly advised at times, but I do believe the guy's heart's in the right place.

 

[nualle]

So if you were a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard, you're actually just a deserter, and one deserving of court martial? That's a refreshing perspective, and one I think might be debated by one or two who post here.

No. It's failing to report for the last 16 months of his tour of duty that constitutes desertion.

 

[4570Rick]

nualle…

From where do you get your info?

It's failing to report for the last 16 months of his tour of duty that constitutes desertion.

I worked on the tail guns on the B-52. They (the Air Force) removed the tail guns and I didn’t report for the last 26 months of my tour. Does that make me a deserter? I chose an early out instead of retraining. The military takes a dim view on desertion. Were your accusation true, GW would not have owned the Texas Rangers, let alone, become the POTUS.

Another thought on GW’s trip to the desert; it occurs to me that an elected official is in office to serve his constituents. When is the last time that a sitting POTUS (the CnC) served the enlisted men in a chow line?

 

[Thumper]

From where do you get your info?

This one refuses to die among the wishful thinkers.

Some Bush haters, evidently not familiar with military documentation (surprise, surprise) conducted "research" indicating that some of Dub's evaluations had the phrase "Not observed at this station" listed after outprocessing from a particular duty station. (Bases maintain evals for anyone that is, or had been, at that station for that eval period.) Thing is, these same researchers had access to all the documents, proving that Dub had orders somewhere else and was being actively evaluated there. They also had his evals from the duty station he supposedly deserted from. Basically, these researchers lied and duped a lot of folks that have a predisposition to hate everything about Bush.

There was no A.W.O.L., no desertion...all crap. Easily dispelled by anyone with rudimentary critical thinking skills:

The military can't, and WON'T, award an Honorary Discharge to a deserter.

 

[Coronach]

Way to go Dubya!

Alas, its OT.

Hope you all had a happy thanksgiving.

Coronach