SWAT wrongfully called to your door...

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HK G3

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So this article is the inspiration for this thread: http://www.dailynews.com/ci_8291447

Cyber pranksters aim for a SWAT team response

He told the 911 dispatcher he had killed someone in the house and more bloodshed would follow.

When SWAT units responded to the Southern California home from where the dispatcher thought the call originated, they confronted a man with a weapon and readied their assault rifles.

But unlike this month's Winnetka SWAT standoff - in which Edwin Rivera killed his father, two brothers and LAPD Officer Randal Simmons - this man was innocent, and no tragedy had occurred.

It was all a joke.

Randal Ellis, 19, who lived 1,200 miles away in Washington state, used a computer to trick the 911 dispatcher into believing the "emergency" was inside a home in Orange County, prosecutors allege.

Called "swatting" - for the callers' efforts to get a SWAT team to respond to their pranks - this relatively new cyber crime has piqued the interest of authorities nationwide. In it, cyber criminals make prank life-and-death 911 calls that appear to be originating from others' homes.

Although nowhere near as prolific or troublesome as other financially enticing cyber crimes, several swatting arrests have shed light on the perverse practice.

"We really don't see anyone making a profit from this," said Bryan Duchene, supervising agent in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles cyber crimes unit. "It's just a twisted way for people to have fun."

Considering the high-risk stakes involved in such emergency responses, swatting is no laughing matter, authorities say.

In Ellis' case, prosecutors say he randomly selected a Lake Forest family that included a husband, wife and two toddlers.

On March 29, he allegedly made a prank call to the home to ensure that the family lived there before calling the 911 dispatcher, said Farrah Emami, spokeswoman for the Orange County District Attorney's Office, which is prosecuting the case.

Sheriff's Department Special Weapons and Tactics officers were sent to the home during the evening while the family was sleeping, she said.

The husband, who woke up when he heard a rustling sound outside, grabbed a knife and went to investigate.

"Instead of finding a prowler, he found a SWAT team pointing assault weapons at him," Emami said.

The man and his wife were placed in handcuffs while the police searched their home.

"It was completely terrifying for the family," Emami said.

In Dallas, five people from throughout the country recently pleaded guilty to federal charges in a swatting conspiracy that began in 2002 and included more than 100 victims in about 60 cities, prosecutors said.

In some of those cases, dispatchers were told the caller had killed family members, taken hostages and hallucinogenic drugs and was armed with an AK-47.

The ongoing investigation highlights a technique called "spoofing," in which caller-ID technology is modified to hide the true identity of a caller.

This fools emergency dispatchers into believing calls are coming from a local number and not one potentially thousands of miles away.

In the Orange County case, Ellis is facing five felony counts and one misdemeanor for the March incident, including computer fraud, assault with a machine gun and false imprisonment by violence, Emami said.

The last two charges offer a novel prosecution strategy for a crime that doesn't have much precedence. Prosecutors will argue Ellis is guilty of both crimes "by proxy," meaning that because of his actions, the responding officers acted, in effect, as an agent for him.

"Even though the defendant wasn't actually there in Lake Forest pointing weapons at them, he was directly responsible for what happened to these victims," Emami said.

Ellis has pleaded not guilty to all charges, and his attorney, Ron Brower, said he disagrees with the D.A.'s "proxy" argument and will ask that those charges be dropped.

"It's our legal opinion that the law does not support that kind of assault by proxy or that vicarious liability," Brower said.

Ellis is in custody with bail set at $500,000. Brower said if the assault and false-imprisonment charges against his client are dropped, a plea agreement is likely.

"That's because the balance of the charges are supported by substantial evidence," he said.

If convicted on all counts, Ellis faces a maximum of 18 years in state prison.

Brower offered this explanation for his client's actions:

"He's from a rural setting, and he's awfully young, and I'd say he's pretty immature, and he didn't appreciate the gravity of that situation," Brower said. "He didn't appreciate what could have transpired. He certainly had no intent to cause anybody harm.

"But it clearly had that potential."

If a SWAT team were to be dispatched to your house like this, will they announce they are present? Would they shout police through megaphones outside the home, or will they just bust down the door in the middle of the night, making you think that a bunch of drug fiends/killers have broken into your home?

This article is just scary, because obviously as gun owners, if we were to be involved in a situation where some people broke down our door, we'd be armed and believe that there was a threat coming in to harm us. Likewise, from the SWAT team's perspective, there is a madman inside the house that is going to try to kill them and a lot of innocent people.

Basically, my question is, how would one be able, if it's even possible, to successfully and safely defuse a situation where a SWAT team is dispatched to your home due to a hacker's prank. Because unless you actually see the police cars, or hear someone on a megaphone, you're going to believe that thugs have just broken into your home and respond as such initially.
 
police forces are required by law to announce thier presence should they make any form of entry into a private structure or upon contact with a civilian. They can hide in the bushes all they want to set up ambushes and reconnoiter, but if they break down your door they have to announce that its the police.
 
police forces are required by law to announce thier presence should they make any form of entry into a private structure or upon contact with a civilian. They can hide in the bushes all they want to set up ambushes and reconnoiter, but if they break down your door they have to announce that its the police.

And criminals can't yell "police"?
 
Well, first I will just say that I'm glad NOONE was hurt in this incident including the officers of SWAT.

If I saw those guys storming my house or outside, I'd give up instantly.
They have you outnumbered, outgunned, outflanked, and outclassed. And, they can out-escalate you no matter what full auto trinket you might have in your gun safe.

If I didn't know it was them, I'd likely be opening fire and instantly regretting that decision if they were real SWAT guys.

Lastly, I hope they put the 911 spoofer in a cell with Bubba. He could have gotten a LOT of innocent people killed.
 
There are three things to do if you are mistakenly attacked by SWAT.

1. Pray you survive.
2. Find a good lawyer.
3. Enjoy your tax payer funded retirement
 
SWAT teams generally announce their presence before entering a residence. There are exceptions but this usually occurs when there is an active search warrant and a high possibility of weapons inside. I n the case of hostage situations uniformed officer usually respond prior to a SWAT Team deployment. SWAT Team regularly deploy with negotiators.
 
Unfortunately, some thugs have purchased realistic badges, uniforms and have kicked doors in, all the while alerting that they are "...police". Some local thugs here actually stole police equipment and engaged in this misconduct. When the dust settled, the victims identified the intruders for what they really were, thugs, not LEOS at all.

The smartest thing one can do is deal with it by complying, with the hopefully genuine LEOs. That stated, I question why this software continues to be sold. Seems the software creator, and all vendors of it, should also be held equally liable for assault with a machine gun by proxy.
 
As a former SWAT breacher I love reading about how folks think SWAT teams work. The last thing any team worth it's salt is going to do is kick in your door unanounced and come in guns blazing. This is especially true if the call is for a barricaded homicidal suspect. Patrol will get there first and start gathering intel. Some time in the next hour most of the SWAT team will arrive, take over perimeter positions and continue gathering intel. Somewhere in here the talking starts. If you are not a homicidal barricaded suspect, answering the phone and doing as the nice negotiator asks is probably the best way to resolve the issue. If you are a homicidal barricaded suspect you can expect lots more talking and waiting and talking and waiting and talking and waiting. It's not uncommon for a team to spend half a day letting words do the work of bullets. I once spent 6 hours sitting in a bush before the kidnapping 3rd striker decided to eat his .45. I sat in that same bush for another 45 minutes before our team leader sent a team to make entry. Bunkering down and waiting days for a barricaded suspect to quit is quite within the realm of possibility. This usually only changes if the bad guy makes it change. If he starts hurting people or just plain refuses to respond he should probably expect the team to force an entry. Other than those situations most teams will be more than willing to wait for surrender. Dynamic work is usually a last resort. On the other hand if the SWAT team does kick in your door with guns up within moments of arriving, it will probably be some ungodly time of the night, they'll most likely be yelling "Police, Search Warrant" and you won't have but a few seconds in which to wonder if they are real or not.
 
And criminals can't yell "police"?

No they can't. It is a violation of the law in every state I know to impersonate the police.

SWAT teams are careful to get the correct house. They have multiple safeguards preventing them from making a mistake. You should have no concern about such a fantastic possibility.
 
These impersonators should be charged to the fullest extent and make examples of these jackasses.
 
Robert Hairless said:
And criminals can't yell "police"?
No they can't. It is a violation of the law in every state I know to impersonate the police.

SWAT teams are careful to get the correct house. They have multiple safeguards preventing them from making a mistake. You should have no concern about such a fantastic possibility.
Whoa, I'm getting old and slow. For a good fifteen seconds there, I thought you were serious.
 
do you think CRIMINALS really care if it's "illegal" to impersonate the police in the execution of a CRIME.... ??????????

I don't, they're criminals.....duh!
 
They don't knock or yell police when outside. They gather on either side of your front door and fire a "breaching round" from a 12 gauge shotgun or use a battering ram to pop open your front door. Then they'll yell police right before they see you. Unless you're standing on the other side of the door aiming your 1911 at the peep hole as the door is blasted open, you'll have a chance to drop your gun and get your hands in the air before you get shot. Also, if the swat team is called, there will be no police cars or swat vans outside your home. They park everything a block or two away, get everything together, organize into groups according to the discussed plan, and hoof it to the person's house. They do that so they can catch the bad guy off guard and reduce the chance of an ambush.

As per your initial question though. If it happened to me I'd hear the BAM of the front door coming open and I'd hear people piling into my home and moving about very quickly. I'd probably hole myself up in the room I was in and pull out my pistol and prepare for invading gang bangers. When they did yell police though I'd toss my gun in their direction so I'm officially unarmed and put my hands in the air and wait for them to figure out they're idiots.
 
As a former SWAT breacher I love reading about how folks think SWAT teams work. The last thing any team worth it's salt is going to do is kick in your door unanounced and come in guns blazing. This is especially true if the call is for a barricaded homicidal suspect. Patrol will get there first and start gathering intel. Some time in the next hour most of the SWAT team will arrive, take over perimeter positions and continue gathering intel. Somewhere in here the talking starts. If you are not a homicidal barricaded suspect, answering the phone and doing as the nice negotiator asks is probably the best way to resolve the issue. If you are a homicidal barricaded suspect you can expect lots more talking and waiting and talking and waiting and talking and waiting. It's not uncommon for a team to spend half a day letting words do the work of bullets. I once spent 6 hours sitting in a bush before the kidnapping 3rd striker decided to eat his .45. I sat in that same bush for another 45 minutes before our team leader sent a team to make entry. Bunkering down and waiting days for a barricaded suspect to quit is quite within the realm of possibility. This usually only changes if the bad guy makes it change. If he starts hurting people or just plain refuses to respond he should probably expect the team to force an entry. Other than those situations most teams will be more than willing to wait for surrender. Dynamic work is usually a last resort.

That's good to know at least. Reading this article, and others like it make it sound as if your door gets blown open, flashbangs fly in, and SWAT officers storm the home, and kill anything that moves and has any object in his/her hand. If they phone like you said, that'd easily allow you to defuse the situation peacefully, and get the whole thing resolved.

It would still be extremely bizarre to get a call from a SWAT negotiator late at night telling you to release the hostages/give yourself up when you were just sleeping and minding your own business - I'd probably assume it was a prank call or something, unless I actually saw cops.
 
i think the hackers should be given a nice new pair of nikes and released into a stadium. where the swat team and members of the families can use them for target practice with simunitions :evil:
why simunitions or frozen paintballs
it will hurt a lot more people get to shoot them and the resulting video should pay for a barbeque afterwoods.
everybody wins :D
 
grumpycoconut wrote:

As a former SWAT breacher I love reading about how folks think SWAT teams work. The last thing any team worth it's salt is going to do is kick in your door unanounced and come in guns blazing. This is especially true if the call is for a barricaded homicidal suspect. Patrol will get there first and start gathering intel. Some time in the next hour most of the SWAT team will arrive, take over perimeter positions and continue gathering intel. Somewhere in here the talking starts. If you are not a homicidal barricaded suspect, answering the phone and doing as the nice negotiator asks is probably the best way to resolve the issue. If you are a homicidal barricaded suspect you can expect lots more talking and waiting and talking and waiting and talking and waiting. It's not uncommon for a team to spend half a day letting words do the work of bullets. I once spent 6 hours sitting in a bush before the kidnapping 3rd striker decided to eat his .45. I sat in that same bush for another 45 minutes before our team leader sent a team to make entry. Bunkering down and waiting days for a barricaded suspect to quit is quite within the realm of possibility. This usually only changes if the bad guy makes it change. If he starts hurting people or just plain refuses to respond he should probably expect the team to force an entry. Other than those situations most teams will be more than willing to wait for surrender. Dynamic work is usually a last resort. On the other hand if the SWAT team does kick in your door with guns up within moments of arriving, it will probably be some ungodly time of the night, they'll most likely be yelling "Police, Search Warrant" and you won't have but a few seconds in which to wonder if they are real or not.


I'll accept that this may be how you or those you have worked with does things. However, if that was the way EVERYONE was doing it, we wouldn't have this:

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/



-- John
 
Seems the software creator, and all vendors of it, should also be held equally liable for assault with a machine gun by proxy.

Most software like the program used to spoof the SWAT guys here is either custom written and used by the cracker or it's freeware that gets passed around in communities where 12-14 year old crackers enjoy the power trip of messing with people remotely. It's like message board trolling on a much higher level.

This is why it's important to have people in the PD or SWAT who can actually combat this kind of stuff electronically and out crack the crackers or outspoof the spoofers.

Groups like four-twenty chan have a very juvenile dislike of authority of any kind and the police are a target for sure, as well as any other morally acceptable group.

In fact, I'm very surprised that Oleg hasn't had this board owned by some random anti-gun type.
 
Grumpy Coconut might be right. But he's wrong in Ohio.

There was a rather large article in a Cleveland paper about this and the fact that it started on phone groups. Several people have been jailed, so there's precedent.

The important point is that here in Ohio, several people had no clue anything was wrong until Swat was standing over them at 3:00 a.m. pointing guns at them. Apparently not all units work the same way.
 
If you are not a homicidal barricaded suspect, answering the phone and doing as the nice negotiator asks is probably the best way to resolve the issue.

Is the nice negotiator going to believe me when I groggily tell him that he and his merry band of cronies have the wrong house?

No.

Then what? I'm not going outside.
 
Grumpycoconut's point is well taken, with respect to the situation described (barricaded w/hostages). But if and when the prankers take to calling in anonymous tips with a "large volume of drugs and guns present" message on someone they don't like or just some random address, the "dynamic entry from line of march" (forgive me for mixing metaphors) becomes a stronger possibility.

(Low-level tinfoil alert) Apart from juvenile prankers, I could see this being employed by a variety of provocateurs and/or monkeywrenchers, trying to loosen society's lug nuts a little further.
 
XDKingslayer,
Just wondering here, but if the cops don't believe you over the phone, what do you really have to lose by walking outside and proving that you are not a homicidal maniac?

JWarren,
Each of those screwups on the CATO site are either actual tragedies, near tragedies or gross screw ups and deserve scrutiny. But when those gross screwups are evaluated against the number of successful SWAT deployments over the same period of time and the fact that falible human beings are involved in every stage of those incidents, I'm thinking that the numbers aren't as bad as they appear at forst look. If you take the time to ferret out the author's bias in the report you might also find reason to look again at his over all premis. I'm not making excuses for screw ups and tragedies but I am convinced that viewing the bigger picture will give one a different perspective than merely viewing one slice of the whole.
 
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