swiss guard

[Piedmont Plinker]

I picked up Dan Brown's Angels and Demons the other day-it is pretty good but by no means in the same league as the DaVinci code. As the Swiss Guard play an important role in this book, I was wondering if they carried firearms- after all, they should grant the head of the Catholic Church more protection than an eight-food spear. Maybe a Speer, but not a spear.
SO-does anyone know what the Swiss Guard uses. In Angels and Demons, Brown says that they carryCherci-Pardini pistols, but I do not trust fiction writers.

 

[Technosavant]

Dan Brown's grip on fact in his stories is pretty tenuous. He writes a page turner, but he has a nasty tendency to be way off on his details.

But no, I have no idea what the Swiss Guards are packing. Probably some nice long guns in a guarded closet.

 

[Cosmoline]

Absolutely they carried firearms. What vintage are you looking at? They basically used what the Swiss military used. Schmidt-Rubins, K-31's, Vetterlis, STG 57 etc.

Along these lines, I believe they would have had the same Lugers as the Swiss, followed by the superlative P210.

Here's a rare box of Vatican 7.5 S-R ammo for the Guard:

 

[Deer Hunter]

I read Angels and Demons before the Davinci Code, and I just have to say that I believe Angels and Demons to be a slightly better novel. Written better with less BS. But sadly, both novels are the same. Dan Brown changed a few names around and reprinted the same book. I lost respect for Brown after reading Davinci Code and comparing the two.

But anyway.

Yes they carry firearms. The spear-toting guards are just show for the tourists. It was like that when I was there three years ago. I'm going again this summer, so I'll have to see what they're carrying.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

http://www.cjcenter.org/documents/pdf/cji/Cji0601-02.pdf

They do have more modern weapons, they're just not as often seen with them in public...

And technosavant is absolutely correct, Dan brown's writing can never be trusted. I'd put it in the same category as the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion or other similar literature, fictional but written as propaganda for those who are easily mislead and don't know it's fiction, although you obviously understand it to be fiction...I've had people tell me things from his books thinking they're facts, kind of sad really...

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

Technosavant- I agree with you that he is off on his details.
If you want full details, go to Michael Crichton. But Brown rights a good book.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Brown hasn't righted his books yet. Maybe when he does they'll gain more appeal!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Jim K]

I have been told I don't know much, but I do know a bit about cryptography, and 99.99% of the stories and TV shows about codes are not only nonsense but plain laughable. Most of the "codes" are really ciphers anyway and have one small problem. They can be "decoded" with some effort, but they could never have been encoded. "Decoding", not surprisingly, produces exactly the result the "decoder" wants to produce to prove his thesis, whatever it may be.

As to the Swiss Guards, yes, they are armed and equipped as a Swiss Army heavy infantry company. They know they could never stand up to a real attack by any modern army, but their mission is to fight long enough to allow the Pope to escape, if at all possible. They have a pistol and small bore range in the Vatican and a rifle and machinegun range at Castelgondolfo, the Pope's summer residence in the hills, which is considered part of the Vatican state.

At one time, the Swiss Guards had a small box at their sides and naturally tourists joked about its purpose, but it held a UZI SMG and a Beretta 9mm pistol. AFAIK, they no longer have those guns right at hand, but they are surprisingly well trained and handy with their halberds, and of course the Vatican gendarmes (the police) are armed, as are the Pope's personal guards.

Jim

 

[Angus Podgorney]

The first Dan Brown book you read is his best. After reading the second one you begin to notice a pattern. While reading the third book you start predicting what's going to happen and who is going to do it.

 

[Grunt]

When I was stationed in MARBAR, Naples, Italy, we were on great terms with the Swiss guard. They would come down to Naples, we'd put on dog and pony shows for them and when we went up to Rome, we got good seats to see the Pope. Probably would have been really super cool if I was Catholic but I didn't burst into flames being a Lutheran and all. Even went back home to Switzerland with one of the guys and Switzerland is a great place to be BTW. But yes, they do have more available to them than flashy britches and halaberds. Out of respect for their opsec I won't say just what they have but it's more than what the routine tourist to the Vatican ever seen in public.

 

[Librarian]

Swiss Guard's web site here.

Tiny picture of (some) long guns they usehere.

 

[Joe Demko]

Some years back, National Geographic ran an article about the Swiss Guards. It showed them practicing judo and described_in general terms_the modern weapons they have at hand. They seemed to be a very competent executive protection unit with a lot of history behind them.

 

[TexKettering]

Here are a couple of pictures I snapped of those clowns... taken just a few weeks ago. I'm going back to the Vatican this weekend and I can take a few more pictures...

Pictures are taken on consecutive days, hence the different attire.

 

[secamp32]

20 years ago I knew a guy that claimed to be a former member of the Swiss Guard. I never knew for sure if he was BSing us or not. He was built like 1 and he was swiss so who knows. He said that they all carried Sigs concealed under their uniforms.

 

[CWL]

Swiss Guards are all ex-Swiss military and Catholic (of course). The ones you see in ceremonial 16th Cent. garb do have small arms within nearby reach (pistols and machine pistols); there are also other modern-uniformed Guards within the Vatican who are armed with heavier weapons that tourists will never see.

The Vatican is a separate country from Italy, the Swiss Guard is their private army and is organized as one. Due to security reasons, outsiders will never know what their armories may contain.

 

[Biker]

Man, you'd have to be a bad SOB to walk around in public wearing that garb.

Biker

 

[jlbraun]

I know they use the SIG 550 series, don't know about pistols.

 

[waterhouse]

I actually got to see a bunch of them last Thursday while at the Vatican. There were no visible firearms, but I did see several swords and finally one with a halberd (I thought they would all be carrying them).

I'll tell you one thing though . . . people on firearms boards are always talking about how you know someone is carrying because they wear vests and 5.11 pants . . . you could conceal a whole mess of small arms under those, uh, outfits (which according to our tour guide were supposedly designed by Michelangelo, making him supposedly one of Italy's first fashion designers.)

 

[romma]

Here are a couple of pictures I snapped of those clowns

Well Tex, They guard the most prolific leader of any religion in the world. They will fight to the death to protect him.

I wouldn't tangle with any one of them.

BTW, I am not Catholic, not anymore anyways...

 

[Joe Demko]

Here are a couple of pictures I snapped of those clowns

If it's possible to permanently forfeit the right to be taken seriously, you just did so.

 

[ilbob]

Dan Browns novels are fiction. Get that - fiction.

There is enough facts and sort-of-facts in them to make them plausible. Not far off from what Tom Clancy, Dale Brown and a host of others write. None of their stuff is real either, although they tend to be a lot closer to reality with the background data. But the stories themselves are total fiction.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well they are actually dressed like clowns, there's no two ways about it. Of course, at the time having big puffy sleeves with bright colors and loose material might have been a fine way of dodging the enemy's blows and distracting him. Like rodeo clowns today.

 

[geim druth]

In the 16th Century, that's how tough guys dressed.

http://www.st-max.org/OLD_SITE/images/woodcuts/Doppelsoldner-4.jpg


I saw a TV program a few years ago that showed them doing early morning halberd drill. I wonder if they ever do man-to-man sparring with those weapons?

 

[CWL]

The Swiss are a mean bunch of SOBs.

Name another European country that hasn't been invaded in 700 years. No nation has successfully invaded Switzerland since the time of the Romans.

The Swiss were the best soldiers/mercenaries in Europe before the rise of national armies. They gradually became exclusive elite forces of the Vatican and France over the last 400 years.

Swiss and German soldiers dressed like that in the 15-16th Centuries because they often had to mend their ripped clothes using looted materials (often women's luxury clothing). This is why they had diferent colors, slashed/ripped sleeves and pantaloons as well used colorful ribbons to tie-on odd bits of material. This evolved to become the fashion.

 

[Run&Shoot]

So instead of being fluffy clown outfits they were more like walking trophy cases? Sort of like, look at all the folks I hacked through in the last war; I'm wearing a strip of cloth from each adversary I vanquished (or what was left of his lady).

Sort of like a belt of scalps, or maybe a biker with strips of opposing colors? Universal warning signs: Don't tread on me. I like it!