Swiss K11 Carbine vs K31

[Turftech1]

Hi All,

I really want to add a Swiss rifle to the C&R collection. I want the k31, but there aren't any deals I can find on a k31 right now. There is one local guy who has been asking $500 for an average k31 for months, but I think I can get a better deal on a K31 if I am patient.

Meanwhile, there are a few Mil-surp outlets selling beautiful K11 Carbines for $299. I am wondering if I'd be better off, or just as well off to buy a K11. I like that they are older, I think they are beautiful, but I do shoot what I own, and enjoy shooting C&R. No safe-queens in my house.

So, anyone owned/shot both the K11 Carbine and the K31? Should I just keep waiting for a deal on a k31, or should I pull the trigger on a K11 carbine for $299?

 

[Slamfire]

I don't have a picture of my K11 rifle, long barreled bugger.

The K31 is an improvement over the K11. In my opinion it is primarily due to a more rigid, therefore stronger (all things considered) lock up. The K11 is a rear locking mechanism, therefore, you need to load a bit lighter for the things to avoid extraction difficulties and over stressing the action. I am sure a real expert could tell you if standard K31 ammunition is fine in a K11.

Now, in my opinion, if you can get a K11 carbine in very good to excellent condition now, go do it. Once these surplus rifles are out of stock, the prices will climb. I bought my K31's for less than $200 apiece, ones that has beat up stocks were going for $79.00 at one time!. Look at the prices now.



Everyone needs a sawback bayonet!



These Swiss rifles, be they K11 or K31, are just jewels. The fit, finish, machine work, just outstanding. The cartridge, the 7.5 X 55 is an outstanding cartridge, in my opinion, the US Army would have been better off to copy the thing instead of coming up with the 30-06. The cartridge is shorter and with a thicker rim, all characteristics that were so lacking in the 30-06, they went to the 7.62 Nato. The ballistics of the Swiss round equal the 7.62 but operate at a lower pressure. Which is all to the good.


7.5 x 55 Swiss Model K-31

AP11 Swiss Ball headstamp DA 78
24 Mar 04 T = 70 ° F


Ave Vel = 2565
Std Dev = 11
ES = 23
Low = 2551
High = 2574
N= 4

 

[ol miner]

I just acquired a K-31 and it is sooo smooth.
Accurate also. Nice engineering. I didn't get the saw tooth bayo.

 

[tark]

I have an 11 long rifle and a K-31. No difference in accuracy. For what it's worth. Accuracy is outstanding.

 

[Turftech1]

Anyone know if the GP11 ammo is still coming in? Seems like it is harder to find.

About 6 weeks ago, there was a local guy selling a K31 with 400+ rounds of GP11 7.5 ammo all for $400. Wish I would have snatched that up. That's what I get for going to work.

 

[lonniemike]

Don't you know that everyone on the net is a real expert. Just ask me.
Turf buy both when you can can. If I was strarting with short funds, I'd get the short 23" barreled K11.
And just so everyone knows, the long barreled K11 does Not exist.
Chances are anyone having a rear locking Swiss will be in the 1889 model, not any 11 series.
The K11 has about a 3" shorter barrel than the K31. Both shoot GP11, which was made for use in the 1911 series of rifles, both short(K) and long (G) barrels.
Both rifles(K31 in 26" and K11 in 23" or G11 in 31" barrels) can shoot 308.
The K31 can shoot 300Mag.
BestAll

 

[Turftech1]

Don't you know that everyone on the net is a real expert. Just ask me.
Turf buy both when you can can. If I was strarting with short funds, I'd get the short 23" barreled K11.
And just so everyone knows, the long barreled K11 does Not exist.
Chances are anyone having a rear locking Swiss will be in the 1889 model, not any 11 series.
The K11 has about a 3" shorter barrel than the K31. Both shoot GP11, which was made for use in the 1911 series of rifles, both short(K) and long (G) barrels.
Both rifles(K31 in 26" and K11 in 23" or 31" barrels) can shoot 308.
The K31 can shoot 300Mag.
BestAll

I did find a few 1911s for sale, not the K11, but boy oh boy those are long. I take my m44 out way more than my 91/30, because it is shorter, and easier to lug around. I think this would be the same. The 1911 looks to be longer than War & Peace. I think I'll stick with the K.

 

[Slamfire]

I agree the K11 rifle is very long. I did not compare to some of the shotguns I have used hunting, those are also long.

This might be of interest, a comparison of velocity differences between a K31 and a K11 rifle.


7.5 x 55 Swiss Model K-31

168 gr Nosler Match 52.0 gr AA4350 INDEP brass and primer OAL 2.850

22 Dec 01 T = 58 ° F

Ave Vel =2624
Std Dev =31
ES = 72
Low = 2588
High = 2660
N = 5

174 FMJBT 57.0 gr WC852 INDEP brass and primer OAL 2.900"

22 Dec 01 T = 58 ° F

Ave Vel =2502
Std Dev =14
ES = 36
Low = 2478
High = 2514
N = 5



7.5 x 55 Swiss Model M1911

174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852 INDEP cases INDEP primers OAL 2.85"

30-Apr-03 T = 86° F

Ave Vel =2696
Std Dev =38
ES = 97
Low = 2646
High = 2743
N = 10

 

[NuclearMeltdown]

I like the handling and stock shape of the K11 (even though I don't own one) better than the K31. Longer length of pull. Slimmer stock. Points better for me. I have a 1911 long rifle and a K31.

 

[lonniemike]

Slammy usually you are pretty spot on. But the K11 will push GP11 about 2500fps, while the G model does push the same ammo about 2700fps. K means carbine. Your 31" barrel is not a model K or a carbine, it is anything but that.Best

 

[Handyman79]

Check out Simpsonltd.com they still have some of the nicest for the money K31's. Should be able to find a nice one for about $350 through them.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Next to the Finn M39, the K-31's are the greatest bolt-action combat rifles ever made, bar none.

Flawlessly reliable, excellent stopping power, rapid bolt manipulation speed (the fastest in the world) and the accuracy... sub MOA on the regular with GP-11 ammo, which is all match grade.

They are the bolt action service rifle perfected.

 

[rondog]

Both rifles(K31 in 26" and K11 in 23" or G11 in 31" barrels) can shoot 308.
The K31 can shoot 300Mag.

Wait, WHAT? You saying you can use both .308 Win and .300 Win Mag ammo in a K31? Can you expound on this? Any proof, links, etc? Sounds mighty dangerous to me!

 

[lonniemike]

Yes, Yes, Yes and you'll have to decide for youself. Danger! Danger! Danger!!! Shoot only if your gun is chambered for those calibers. Almost all K31s are in 7.5X55 but not all.
Y'all be careful with those oldweak firearms with the thick recievers, bolts, and large locking lugs with all that modern metalurgy.
Search old gun magazines from about the sixties and SwissRifles.com
Look for Hammerli ads.
The 06 and Mag were single shots as limited by the magazine. Other calibers were available too. Most people won't pay a grand now for a K31 in 7.5X55 in todays market. How many people paid $1,000 in 1960 something for a plainjane K31?
Probably less than those who would have had to pay even more for a K31 in some other exotic caliber like the 30'06, 308, and others.GoodLuckHuntin/Shootin/Searchin

 

[kanomie]

The K31 I have is a helluva rifle. It's accuracy is phenomenal.

 

[lencac]

I'll add one load I've recently worked up. I have more recipes but this is one I have in mind because it's a recent one I just did.
147gr mil-spec FMJ
45.5gr. IMR 4064
CCI BR primers in Graf brass.
2850 fps. @ roughly 50 degrees F
The group is from a 1944 beech wood K31 I've just got done
refinishing.
Throat erosion checks a stellar 2.0 (which is like new) with a Badger Ordnance M1 Garand TE gauge. New K31's check 1.5 - 2.0 with that gauge.
Headspace checks a perfect 1.802"
I will be selling this one in the near future.
Keep in mind the target was shot with diopter sights installed @ 100 yrds. off the bench.