Tactical Response Pics from Fighting and Advanced Fighting pistol 16-19sept.
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Trust me, I bet the course was a blast and enriching yourself is important. Kudos for that. I just don't think you can pass a fun day of shooting with your friends as a critical training session.
Shooting the gun upside down? What is the practical application?
To each his own I guess
Shooting the gun upside down? What is the practical application?
To each his own I guess
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Talk with the LFI folks, they did it several years ago for their advanced course. Sounds very interesting. Would love to read about the results.
Paul Gomez
Member In Memoriam
Interesting responses from guys with no substantive posts.
Do not see?
Do not see what....the fact that most of those exercises look not only useless but dangerous? That maybe someone, seeing as how they are NOT leo's or military personnel, is going to get hurt when a gun accidentally goes off while...hitting a punching bag with it?
Do not see that probably 99 percent of the people that pay money for those courses will never see a similar situation in their LIFE, and if they do it will probably be 100% different than what they have "trained" for? (By trained meaning a couple days of practice.)
Do not see that maybe some of these people should try to focus on improving other aspects of their life rather than how well they can shoot a gun upside-down or through their legs?
Gun safety is a good thing to practice. That...is NOT it.
Do not see what....the fact that most of those exercises look not only useless but dangerous? That maybe someone, seeing as how they are NOT leo's or military personnel, is going to get hurt when a gun accidentally goes off while...hitting a punching bag with it?
Do not see that probably 99 percent of the people that pay money for those courses will never see a similar situation in their LIFE, and if they do it will probably be 100% different than what they have "trained" for? (By trained meaning a couple days of practice.)
Do not see that maybe some of these people should try to focus on improving other aspects of their life rather than how well they can shoot a gun upside-down or through their legs?
Gun safety is a good thing to practice. That...is NOT it.
Zak Smith
Member
Tactical Response is good training.
Also. This thread is too far gone.
ETA:
I apologize for the mods not getting on top of this thread more quickly. There are a lot of useless responses. Everyone who posted a photoshop or "motivational poster": consider yourself warned.
Also. This thread is too far gone.
ETA:
I apologize for the mods not getting on top of this thread more quickly. There are a lot of useless responses. Everyone who posted a photoshop or "motivational poster": consider yourself warned.
Did your post disappear? Wonder why? Read the forum rules in your upper right hand portion of your screen, if you still have access to THR.
For those of you that are still here, take a course or two before you become convinced about what's stupid or not.
For those of you that are still here, take a course or two before you become convinced about what's stupid or not.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
And there arose a generation who knew not Murphy, to paraphrase the Good Book.
Seems a lot of folks here do not know Murphy. And are not in any way prepared to meet him, either.
"Real life."
Right. Folks who can schedule their emergencies, and choreograph their gunfights (in the safety of their computer chair) claim they know how the real world works.
I'm ashamed of y'all.
lpl
Seems a lot of folks here do not know Murphy. And are not in any way prepared to meet him, either.
"Real life."
Right. Folks who can schedule their emergencies, and choreograph their gunfights (in the safety of their computer chair) claim they know how the real world works.
I'm ashamed of y'all.
lpl
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
gotime242, 99% of people who take any sort of firearms training course of any sort will never, ever need it in real life. It's a lot like homeowner's insurance or car insurance. From the standpoint of daily life, it's been a total waste of money for me, these last forty or so years. Trouble is, my daily life ain't over, yet.
But if you ever do need to use a gun in self defense, odds are that it won't be a Hollywood western face-off in the middle of the street, or necessarily at a distance where you have a time advantage and readily drag out your shootin' arn and take careful aim--or against only one person in front of you.
The whole deal of a "playtime furball" is to get it internalized that weird stuff can happen and might even be likely to happen.
But if you ever do need to use a gun in self defense, odds are that it won't be a Hollywood western face-off in the middle of the street, or necessarily at a distance where you have a time advantage and readily drag out your shootin' arn and take careful aim--or against only one person in front of you.
The whole deal of a "playtime furball" is to get it internalized that weird stuff can happen and might even be likely to happen.
I don't see anything wrong with it at all. I didn't see anything inherently unsafe either. I also fail to see why training cannot have an element of fun to it.
I am also glad to see all the bellies hanging out, being as mine hangs out too.
IMO, any trigger time is good, both for the soul, and as training for something you hope never happens.
I am also glad to see all the bellies hanging out, being as mine hangs out too.
IMO, any trigger time is good, both for the soul, and as training for something you hope never happens.
I'm not sure I see anything "unsafe" in the pictures. As far as shooting upside down, or in a choke hold..... It's good training to practice while in a "awkward" position as if you ever find yourself in a gunfight, it should be awkward. More so if there are multiple people involved.
Statistics show these fights happen at around arms length. If you are shooting one BG, then there may be another attacking before the first shot is fired.
I'm curious how many of the negative posters have had any more training than the CCW course (which doesn't cover much on the practical side of things) required to get a permit.
Statistics show these fights happen at around arms length. If you are shooting one BG, then there may be another attacking before the first shot is fired.
I'm curious how many of the negative posters have had any more training than the CCW course (which doesn't cover much on the practical side of things) required to get a permit.
anythingshiny
Member
In all seriousness each is a method of teaching..albeit this not a textbook that you are sitting and reading or some interweb-o-net site that supposes tactical supremacy.
Shooting the weapon upside down and with the pinky enforces trigger control and recoil principles.
Shooting upside down between your legs is not a super secret spec op mall ninja jedi mind trick, it simply shows the student that depsite your position that proper sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control still produce reliable hits.
You'd better be training on VERY close draw and shoot techniques...as well as being physically bumped, jostled, hit and pee'd upon. Because it is a 360 world we live in.
The view of not firing because there is someone "in front" of you is a static flat range safety view. My guess is if a gunfight happens there WILL be people in front, to the side and on top of you. Of course range safety is an issue!!! but again the real world is 360...if you are not really prepared to do a 360 scan with a live gun and not feel secure doing it...you should not be carrying.
Several of the ranges near me won't allow you to even draw from holster on the line to keep the blood sucking lawyers at bay...so just how is a poor boy like me suppose to practice getting knocked down in a fight, drawing and shooting? Well..waiting til the kids go to bed and playing in the basement with a blue gun is one way isnt it? Or I can attend a class..any class and soak up some more experience.
Shooting the weapon upside down and with the pinky enforces trigger control and recoil principles.
Shooting upside down between your legs is not a super secret spec op mall ninja jedi mind trick, it simply shows the student that depsite your position that proper sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control still produce reliable hits.
You'd better be training on VERY close draw and shoot techniques...as well as being physically bumped, jostled, hit and pee'd upon. Because it is a 360 world we live in.
The view of not firing because there is someone "in front" of you is a static flat range safety view. My guess is if a gunfight happens there WILL be people in front, to the side and on top of you. Of course range safety is an issue!!! but again the real world is 360...if you are not really prepared to do a 360 scan with a live gun and not feel secure doing it...you should not be carrying.
Several of the ranges near me won't allow you to even draw from holster on the line to keep the blood sucking lawyers at bay...so just how is a poor boy like me suppose to practice getting knocked down in a fight, drawing and shooting? Well..waiting til the kids go to bed and playing in the basement with a blue gun is one way isnt it? Or I can attend a class..any class and soak up some more experience.
dakotasdad
Member
Hey, first post.
Uh, to the member who mentioned possibly injecting themselves with epi. Don't do it. You want to get your blood pumping? Do some push-ups followed by a sprint to the line. Its a little safer for you.
And to all the others who badmouthed the OP, Neat. You guys make me wanna go train.
See ya.
Uh, to the member who mentioned possibly injecting themselves with epi. Don't do it. You want to get your blood pumping? Do some push-ups followed by a sprint to the line. Its a little safer for you.
And to all the others who badmouthed the OP, Neat. You guys make me wanna go train.
See ya.
highorder
Member
My only thoughts on this matter:
Those that take the time and spend the money for training like this should also be committed to spending the same time and money to be physically fit.
I know diet and exercise aren't as much fun as dual weilding striker fired pistols, or any of the other skills training shown in these pics, but the value to your state of readiness as well as your overall health is far more important that a few days of practicing the skills shown.
It appears to me that the participants with muffin tops in the pics may be more interested in the fun aspect of this training than anything else.
My opinion, worth only what you paid.
highorder/
possum
Member
me and my training partner just came back from a 15 month deployment in the sandbox, and have been on admin leave for the better part of a month and a half, and we have been slack on the pt yes, but we are back to work now and we are getting back in the shape that we need too. after 15 months away form a child i have never seen and one that i have been away from more than i have been around, pt was the last thing on my mind on leave, spending time with the family was my priority.
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Gents,
Not everyone that carries a gun needs to look like an "operator". Some of us can't any more due to injury, illness and entropy and have to deal with physical limitations. On the other hand, everyone that carries a gun should get themselves to a course like this, within fiscal limitations, and make sure they know how to use the tool in the conditions they may find themselves in one day. Let's not get hung up on the physical condition of the folks with the fiscal wherewithal to go get the training we all need.
If any other vandals show up in the thread please be good enough to hit the friendly "alert mod" button on the lower left
so we can take out the trash.
Not everyone that carries a gun needs to look like an "operator". Some of us can't any more due to injury, illness and entropy and have to deal with physical limitations. On the other hand, everyone that carries a gun should get themselves to a course like this, within fiscal limitations, and make sure they know how to use the tool in the conditions they may find themselves in one day. Let's not get hung up on the physical condition of the folks with the fiscal wherewithal to go get the training we all need.
If any other vandals show up in the thread please be good enough to hit the friendly "alert mod" button on the lower left
I guess I'm surprised at the negative responses. It's definitely fine to stand and shoot down range 7 yds in a controlled environment and work on fundamentals, but I was reading an article a few weeks ago which stated that according to data from the FBI, DEA and other agencies, that the average defensive shooting occurred at a distance of 14 feet - about the length of a car.
That leaves not a whole lot of reaction time, and the possibilty of a scuffle before you're even able to draw. If there is more than one attacker, you're response time is even more limited.
So given that, I see nothing wrong with the pictures.
That leaves not a whole lot of reaction time, and the possibilty of a scuffle before you're even able to draw. If there is more than one attacker, you're response time is even more limited.
So given that, I see nothing wrong with the pictures.
YammyMonkey
Member
I don't see anything unsafe in those pics. Some of those (between the legs, gun upside down) just go to show you that your stance & grip aren't as important as some would have you believe.
Where is there an inappropriately placed booger hook?
Where is there a muzzle pointed at someone else?
Where is there an inapprpriate backstop or target?
Think about the real world, get some real training (NRA basic pistol doesn't count) & do some force on force, then come on back.
Where is there an inappropriately placed booger hook?
Where is there a muzzle pointed at someone else?
Where is there an inapprpriate backstop or target?
Think about the real world, get some real training (NRA basic pistol doesn't count) & do some force on force, then come on back.
Claude Clay
Member
in the fast action happenings of a real world event you will more likely default to your training than raise to the occasion. thus any (proper) training is useful. the more varied the training, the more you train, the more likely any real world event will end well for you.
i noted that this post was a 'snapshot ' of the 4 days. and even allowing for camera angle, i still have concerns re safety as depicted by 2 of the pictures. upside down grip--teaches thinking outside the box, being flexible, being creative.
serious about training...take at least 6 months of a martial arts class. learn about your bodies abilities and venerabilities.
i noted that this post was a 'snapshot ' of the 4 days. and even allowing for camera angle, i still have concerns re safety as depicted by 2 of the pictures. upside down grip--teaches thinking outside the box, being flexible, being creative.
serious about training...take at least 6 months of a martial arts class. learn about your bodies abilities and venerabilities.
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possum
Member
mods thanks for the support and removing the photo shop stuff.
i agree shay
The Strategies and Tactics forum WILL be a place where we can discuss training. I apologize for missing this, I have been working on a project.
Let me say now that the next time a thread like this is disrupted, the guilty parties will be gone, no discussion, no questions asked.
Jeff
Let me say now that the next time a thread like this is disrupted, the guilty parties will be gone, no discussion, no questions asked.
Jeff
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