Tactical Response Pics from Fighting and Advanced Fighting pistol 16-19sept.

[TexasRifleman]

Uh, to the member who mentioned possibly injecting themselves with epi. Don't do it. You want to get your blood pumping? Do some push-ups followed by a sprint to the line. Its a little safer for you.

I'm certainly not gonna try it on myself, but Massad Ayoob did it in one of his LFI-IV classes:

LFI-IV is where we "go beyond the envelope." It was here that we injected people with epinephrine and monitored their vital signs as they shot double speed to replicate full-blown fight or flight response in 1998. It was here that we did the "Dracula Drill," draining a pint of blood from each student immediately prior to them shooting a qualification while experiencing blood loss. We won't tell you what 2001 brings…until you get there. Suffice to say the tradition will continue. Now you know why we only offer it once every three years…

That's serious business, but a very interesting approach to simulating what really goes on. I'd love to read more about how all that worked out.

 

[Six Feet Under]

Some of the responses in this thread are clear examples of why THR is not a place where training can be discussed.

I was wondering when one of you guys would pop up and start to put people in their place. lol

Edit:

If any of you do register on www.getoffthex.com I'd suggest you read for a long, long time before you make a post. You learn a lot on that website and would probably do better to just listen than talk. It's what I do.

 

[spelsh]

possum,

when you finished the training, did you feel you were better prepared? I think that's the only thing the matters.

I coached a number of sports over the years (hockey, tennis, basketball) and we made the players do all kinds of things that would not happen 99.9% of the time, but it make them better players. Made them concentrate on technique and execution.

I hope I one day have the time and opportunity to take a class and learn what I'm capable of with a firearm.

 

[Jeff White]

I'm certainly not gonna try it on myself, but Massad Ayoob did it in one of his LFI-IV classes:

Quote:
LFI-IV is where we "go beyond the envelope." It was here that we injected people with epinephrine and monitored their vital signs as they shot double speed to replicate full-blown fight or flight response in 1998. It was here that we did the "Dracula Drill," draining a pint of blood from each student immediately prior to them shooting a qualification while experiencing blood loss. We won't tell you what 2001 brings…until you get there. Suffice to say the tradition will continue. Now you know why we only offer it once every three years…

That's serious business, but a very interesting approach to simulating what really goes on. I'd love to read more about how all that worked out.

There are several methods of simulating the physiological effects of stress. What you can't simulate and what I believe is the bigger factor is the actual fear that comes from the knowledge that you are in fact in danger of great bodily harm or losing your life. It's a lot easier to fight through the physical effects of high stress when you know you are going home in one piece at the end of the day. It's that fear that brings about the physical symptoms.

Jeff

 

[possum]

when you finished the training, did you feel you were better prepared?

i do. there are many things that are in fighting pistol that i have done in the past or that i do train on on a regular basis, but as far as advanced fighting pistol that was all pretty much new too me. My shooting didn't get any better while i was there, but i am i beleive more prepared for a fight with a handgun that i was before.

 

[PPGMD]

I need to come back to Camden and take AFP, and The Fight.

 

[Six Feet Under]

I want to take one of Yeager's classes really bad, I just don't have the money being as I lost my job last week. I'd like to do it when it's cool outside too, but you don't get to pick the temperature the day of the fight either... I just do enough shooting in 100 degree weather down here

 

[19-3Ben]

possum-
I just have to ask if sticking your tongue out like that helps with your accuracy.

I know I do the same thing when I am really focusing on something. I need to work on my hand-tongue coordination.

 

[TexasRifleman]

There are several methods of simulating the physiological effects of stress.

This interests me for some reason. What have you seen in different training scenarios that worked to try to recreate this? I know you can't get 100% but what have you seen that you felt got close? Or has there even been anything that you felt was close?

 

[45Guy]

If any of you do register on www.getoffthex.com I'd suggest you read for a long, long time before you make a post. You learn a lot on that website and would probably do better to just listen than talk. It's what I do

I have a feeling that the people who were posting those posters and comments earlier aren't the type to just read and not type something.

 

[gastong30]

What have you seen in different training scenarios that worked to try to recreate this? I know you can't get 100% but what have you seen that you felt got close? Or has there even been anything that you felt was close?

For me, it has been FOF evolutions at SouthNarc's ECQC class. By FOF, I mean wearing FIST helmets etc, it's all in play (empty hands, training gun & training knife), maybe 1 aggressor maybe 2. It's pretty dynamic, the unknowns really get your heart pounding, and your performance is watched by the other students.

There's also USSA's CQT class that is a very close second. Especially when you are geared up, laying on your back with your eyes covered, and the proctor asks "are you ready? It's on the role players" and you hear him walk away. You are left there waiting & listening to your heart pound.

 

[BBQLS1]

possum-
I just have to ask if sticking your tongue out like that helps with your accuracy.

I know I do the same thing when I am really focusing on something. I need to work on my hand-tongue coordination.

Ok, that's pretty funny.

 

[possum]

possum-
I just have to ask if sticking your tongue out like that helps with your accuracy.

i don't know, that is a good question maybe that is the secret to my good shooting! I actually never knew or noticed, and no one has ever said anything about it, so i had no idea that i did that.

 

[Erik]

It is fairly common. I see it all the time.

 

[possum]

It is fairly common. I see it all the time.

that is good to know.

 

[conw]

What you can't simulate and what I believe is the bigger factor is the actual fear that comes from the knowledge that you are in fact in danger of great bodily harm or losing your life.

But won't "good" training that somewhat replicates it reduce the fear by increasing confidence? I know it won't replicate it exactly, or reduce fear to nothing, but Ayoob's method would probably be better than qualifying with no physical detriment, no?

 

[helz_mcfugly]

i would have to say that any cc scenario training in a safe environment is good. sure you look funny in a couple of the pictures, everyone puts a funny face on when they shoot. I like to laugh at myself in pictures i look goofy in. I say good show possum.

 

[98C5]

I guess I can understand the reasons behind the class. Anything can happen and you need to know how to shoot in any situation.

However, regarding that last pic with 2 guns. If you are in a situation where you need 2 guns, you shouldn't have been there to start with.

j/k

Interesting class!!

 

[YammyMonkey]

Claude, the upside down gun is to show that your grip is not a component of hitting accurately. It doesn't matter how you hold it as long as you keep the sights where they need to be & don't disturb them while pulling the trigger.

The Strategies and Tactics forum WILL be a place where we can discuss training.

BRAVO!

 

[possum]

guess I can understand the reasons behind the class. Anything can happen and you need to know how to shoot in any situation.

However, regarding that last pic with 2 guns. If you are in a situation where you need 2 guns, you shouldn't have been there to start with

i really didn't understand the 2 gun thing either, but i can assure you that i didn't approch it, and shoot them like a thug or what you would see in the movies, i took aim and shot them like i normally were, using flash sight pictures, and squezzing, i got 100% hits in the heart box.

I say good show possum

thank you

 

[ShackleMeNot]

I no longer work for Tactical Response so take my opinion for what it's worth.

Advanced Fighting Pistol isn't about pistol skill. It's about Mindset. You have a job to do and no matter what, you need to get that job done.

It has become cliche to talk about how so-and-so school teaches "fighting" not shooting. Yeah. I see pics of other schools' classes and it's still guys standing still on the firing line trying to shoot tiny groups. Mindset is an afterthought if it's talked about at all.

Tactical Response is different. Their classes do not look the same as other training because they aren't the same as other training. If you want to learn to shoot tiny groups, find another school.

If you want to learn to fight there are very few choices of schools you can attend where you WILL leave a better fighter. Tactical Response is on the top of that list.

 

[Steve Raacke]

me and my training partner just came back from a 15 month deployment in the sandbox, and have been on admin leave for the better part of a month and a half, and we have been slack on the pt yes, but we are back to work now and we are getting back in the shape that we need too. after 15 months away form a child i have never seen and one that i have been away from more than i have been around, pt was the last thing on my mind on leave, spending time with the family was my priority.

As a Desert Storm vet I salute you and thank you for your service.

 

[possum]

As a Desert Storm vet I salute you and thank you for your service.

you are very welcome, and thank you as well.

 

[Harold Mayo]

Just because someone's belly hangs over their belt a little doesn't mean that they can't kick your [rear].

 

[B yond]

I see a lot of kydex in those pics.

Have you ever tried to retain a weapon in a kydex holster while someone is REALLY trying to get it away from you?

Kydex paddle holsters break at the rivets.