Take a cop's picture, get arrested and go to jail...

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Oh, that right you do. A neighbor told you so and the police did not deem it necessary to inform you otherwise.
How could anyone argue with those "facts"

As opposed to the "facts" that you keep fabricating about how Cruz must have been interfering with the investigation?

I mean, don'cha think that maybe, just possibly, the cops realize that if they had a legitimate reason for detaining him that they could avoid looking like a bunch of heavy-handed imbeciles by telling the public exactly why they chose to detain him?

You know, maybe they could have cited a statute or released the dashboard camera video from one of the other cop cars that shows Cruz so obviously interfering. Something like that. You know, some evidence.
 
The one thing I can see in the pic is that Carpetbagger posted is that the guy is in handcuffs and NOT struggling , the officer still is resting his knee on the suspects neck , a big NO NO here in WA . If I remember my classes , that position is a compliance technique for NON compliant suspects .
 
As opposed to the "facts" that you keep fabricating about how Cruz must have been interfering with the investigation?
Please show me any "facts" that I have presented much less fabricated other than this
The only facts that we know for sure are that the guy was arrested and then later released.
Or do you dispute that fact also even though it was taken from the article that you have so much faith in.
mean, don'cha think that maybe, just possibly, the cops realize that if they had a legitimate reason for detaining him that they could avoid looking like a bunch of heavy-handed imbeciles by telling the public exactly why they chose to detain him?
Yes I do.
But, unlike you, I also think it is possible that the guy is full of crap
You know, maybe they could have cited a statute or released the dashboard camera video from one of the other cop cars that shows Cruz so obviously interfering. Something like that. You know, some evidence.
How far have you researched this story to see if any of your precious evidence has been produced.
Have you found any evidence that the story that Cruz told is true.
Maybe you can just make some up like you did my "fabricated facts"

Why do the police have to produce evidence but Cruz only has to say it and it is so.
Your prejudice is showing
 
Back in the mid 1980's a friend was being watched,followed,investigated about something (I forget what).These "investigators" were SBI or some such agency operating in the Carolinas.One day he was able to capture their faces on film (35mm & telefoto).He was then contacted about handing over the film as the two "investigators" were UC.To make a long story short,he never turned over any film and the "investigators" never bothered him again.
 
The one thing I can see in the pic is that Carpetbagger posted is that the guy is in handcuffs and NOT struggling , the officer still is resting his knee on the suspects neck , a big NO NO here in WA . If I remember my classes , that position is a compliance technique for NON compliant suspects .

It is a still image. Not only is the suspect not struggling, but nobody else is moving either. The question is, what was happening just before the photograph?

Right now, it all seems pretty one-sided. I am sure if things are as the guy claims, the ACLCIO or other civil rights group will fight on his behalf since this is an incident covered in the press and good for more press for their organization.
 
Ahhh, Philly PD.

The same PD who did this to a good guy over at SIGforum who was unfortunate enough to be legally carrying inside the city limits.

They still have not returned any of his firearms even though a judge dismissed the entirety of the DA's cowpie case against him in January of this year. :fire:
 
Why do the police have to produce evidence but Cruz only has to say it and it is so.

Well, duh! Because Cruz didn't arrest anybody?

The presumption is, if the police can't explain why they arrested somebody, then they didn't have a good reason for doing it. Picture taking isn't the sort of thing you need to cough up evidence to justify. Cuffing somebody and dragging them away IS.
 
I hope the ACLU takes the city to task. I may not agree with them all the time, but this is ridiculous and the ACLU should help this guy out.
 
I hate to derail the thread a little but...

It is the directly affect vs indirectly that is my point on victimless crimes.
Many crimes that I have heard referred as victimless eventually affect
someone. Be it friend, family member, or taxpayer, many (not all) eventually
affect someone else in some way shape or form. I guess it comes down to
figuring out who the criminal really is at that point.

Many small or victimless crimes erode society eventually making many
victims in the long run.

Sometimes there is a victim somewhere perhaps just not a criminal.

As for the "Absinthe-swilling" I don't think anyone swills wormwood for too
long. Besides it is only illegal to import, not to drink or possesses.
 
The presumption is, if the police can't explain why they arrested somebody, then they didn't have a good reason for doing it.
Well, theres a lot of asinine presumptive assumption going on here.

The first being that the cops CAN'T explain why they arrested Cruz.

All the proof necessary here is that the article did not state a cop given reason

I guess that's because we have come to trust the media's unbiased approach and superior investigative efforts
 
Workingman, that's the same conveluted reasoning that the congress and supreme court have used to allow the abusive oversextension of the commerce clause!! Since education produces workers that make stuff that is traded in interstate commerce and since shooting in schools disrupts this, we are going to ban guns in schools. That's my paraphrase, but if you read the actual federal gun ban in schools, that is exactly the way they argued it.

At some point you have to say yes, this is victimless because no one was directly harmed.
 
As someone who has been shooed away, threatened, and detained for taking pictures of events, I can speak with some authority on this one.

The police were in a public place, performing their public duty as officers. The law does not prohibit recording that through any means you can think of. The law does not empower police officers to record arrests through dashboard cruiser cameras and then turn around and prevent citizens from doing the same. Cruiser cameras do not require a court order to obtain or use in law enforcement and prosecution, as opposed to say wire taps.

The original arrest, lawful or not, will eventually become public record. If a bystander, standing quietly tens of feet away from the arrest, records it with a device, I fail to see how anyone's liberty has been damaged or how justice was obstructed.

Ever see photographs taken at protest rallies, and all the chained together protesters being carted off in police vans? Reporters are not given a license to record these facts. I never had to get a 'reporter's license' to cover an event.

Police told Hairston that they did take Cruz into to custody, but they said Cruz was not on his property when they arrested him.

Your location and what permission you were given to record events matters when it comes to copyright and publishing, not whether or not it was legal. (I'm not considering classified information or patient/client privelege with that statement.)

I'm more interested to see what law was broken by a police officer making an arrest on a fictitious law, or on the basis of ignorance. Does he get community service? Does he have to go back to police school? Does he get demoted? Does he get a warning? "Now Sergeant Schmuckanelli, next time don't make up laws because you're camera shy." :(

jmm
 
This PA state case decided in Fed Dist. Court seems on point

http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/05-videotape.pdf


.........
The activities of the police, like those of other
public officials, are subject to public scrutiny. Indeed, "the
First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism
and challenge directed at police officers." City of Houston,
Tex. v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451, 461 (1987). Although Robinson need
not assert any particular reason for videotaping the troopers, he
was doing so in order to make a visual record of what he believed
was the unsafe manner in which they were performing their duties.
He had previously talked to Arthur Hershey, a Representative in
the Pennsylvania General Assembly, about his concerns.
Robinson's right to free speech encompasses the right to receive
information and ideas. Stanley v. Georgia, 394 U.S. 557, 564
(1969). He also has a First Amendment right to express his
concern about the safety of the truck inspections to the
appropriate government agency or officials, whether his
expression takes the form of speech or conduct. See Texas v.
Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 404 (1989); Minnesota State Board for
Cmty. Colleges v. Knight, 465 U.S. 271, 308 (1984). Videotaping
is a legitimate means of gathering information for public
dissemination and can often provide cogent evidence, as it did in
this case. In sum, there can be no doubt that the free speech
clause of the Constitution protected Robinson as he videotaped
-8-
the defendants on October 23, 2002. See Smith v. City of
Cumming, 212 F.3d 1332, 1333 (11th Cir. 2000); see also Stanley,
394 U.S. at 564 (1969); Whiteland Woods, L.P. v. Township of West
Whiteland, 193 F.3d 177, 180 (3d Cir. 1999). Moreover, to the
extent that the troopers were restraining Robinson from making
any future videotapes and from publicizing or publishing what he
had filmed, the defendants' conduct clearly amounted to an
unlawful prior restraint upon his protected speech. Vance v.
Universal Amusement Co., Inc., 445 U.S. 308, 316 & n.13, 317
(1980); Near v. State of Minnesota ex. rel. Olson , 283 U.S. 697 (1931).

No reasonable trooper could have believed that
Robinson's videotaping on October 23, 2002 constituted harassment
under 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 2709. That statute provides, in
relevant part: "[a] person commits the crime of harassment when,
with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another, the person: ...
(2) follows the other person in or about a public place or
places; [or] (3) engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly
commits acts which serve no legitimate purpose." Id. at
§ 2709(a)(2) & (3). Significantly, the statute continues:
"[t]his section shall not apply ... to any constitutionally
protected activity." Id. at § 2709(e).
At the trial in this case, Fetterman, Rigney, and Riek
all admitted that Robinson's videotaping of police activity is
not unlawful in itself.
.......

The Constitutional principles involved in this action
are well established. We are not dealing with a "close case" or
with the split-second decisions police officers often have to
make in the heat of a dangerous or potentially dangerous
confrontation. There was no justification for the actions of
defendants in violating Robinson's right to free speech and his
right to be secure in his person against an unreasonable seizure.

........
 
I almost feel like I should not only go out armed with a CCW, but also with a CCCamera.

It's your DUTY as a citizen to make sure that a policeman is doing his job and not violating the rights of others. If he isn't, it's your duty to intervene. I'm not suggesting shooting him (unless he's seriously hurting an unarmed and nonviolent person), but if I saw an officer accosting someone, I would whip out my cell phone and start snapping pictures in a second.
If it got more intense, I would verbally intervene with the officer to let him know I was there and watching. If things got really bad, I might even the cops to have more officers sent to the scene.

I have at least twice pulled to the side of the road to watch what I felt to be a suspicious traffic stop, once where like 6 officers in 4 cars had stopped one pregnant woman and had her out of her car. Both times the officers appeared to be professional and proceeded just fine.

Some people might call what I just said "cop bashing," but I would think that any law-abiding, respectful-of-rights cop would want his fellow officers to be held accountable to live up to their responsibilities.

Cops need to be constantly reminded not only that we are accountable to the law, but also that they, ultimately, are accountable to us.
 
Does anyone know where one can buy a good tapeless (preferably) video/audio recorder for use in one's car or on one's person?


BB62
 
I'm not a lawyer but I would expect that Hester v. United States, 265 U.S. 57 (1924) applies to law enforcment as well as citizenry. If "Open Fields" are exempt from the 4a, it must apply across the board.
 
"Does anyone know where one can buy a good tapeless (preferably) video/audio recorder for use in one's car or on one's person?"

I know that some cell phones take video as well as pictures. Mine does. It's a crappy video, to say the least, but I'm sure the multitude of phones that take better resolution photos also would take better video. Most of these devices are one-button operating.

That would be the easiest thing, as it wouldn't require you to carry any extra electronic gear. You could even set the phone up on your dash during a traffic stop. The officer may say something, but I don't think he'd have any justification for stopping you from recording the stop, especially since HIS car is recording it too.
 
Has anyone given this a thought?

cop: "Stop that I don't like it"

Me: "So what, it is legal"

Cop: "Not today, you're under arrest"

Judge: "Where is the complaining office/prosecutions witness?"

DA: "Well, he couldn't make it due to xyz and state recommends dismissal"

Judge: "OK, case dismissed w/ prejudice"


I won? I spent hours in jail, ponied up hundreds of dollars, had my name dragged through the newspaper and the mud. But I won. :fire:

Give me back my money and pay me for my time. And appologise.

Until then, the justice system is broken. LEO's who maintain the thin blue line of us v. them, cops always and forever, etc. , fail on the customer service part of their job description.

At the time of the arrest, justified or not, the punishment begins.

Don't like his attitude? Book him on DOP and don't show up in court...he won, but gets to answer "yes" when asked "Have you ever been arrested?" for the rest of his life.

Yeah, he won his case.

Anyone want to ask for a donation to the FOP?
 
What happened to this story? I searched the Philly Inquirer and they have nothing for the last 7 days. Google only has links to the original story. How can an incident like this just disappear?:what:
 
Because the wheels of justice turn slowly. I imagine the lawyer is taking his time preparing the suit; after all, the statute of limitations isn't going to run out tomorrow.
 
It is a still image. Not only is the suspect not struggling, but nobody else is moving either. The question is, what was happening just before the photograph?
The "suspect" was jogging on a college campus, while dressed as a ninja. Two BATFE agents found that to be suspicious, so they stopped and questioned him.

As you can see, this entailed one agent resting his entire bodyweight upon the ninja's neck, after the ninja had been placed in handcuffs.

Luckily for the ninja (and the agents) no long term physical damage resulted. And the student is considering a lawsuit.
 
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