Taking gun tips from my wife, now...!

[Kalindras]

So, tomorrow I go for my CCL class, and I'm trying to decide just what I'll be carrying, once I'm official. As is, I have nothing but big ole' clunky guns (that make very satisfyingly loud BOOMs and nice, tight groups)--a 1911, Baby Eagle, Birdshead .45, and Security Six.

I'm looking at three options, right now, and trying to decide, so I'm hoping that the fine folks at THR (and TFL, where I'll also post this) can offer me their insights, in case I'm missing something. I've done the prerequisite searches here and at TFL, but either there's too little or too much on these specifics, so here goes...

The background:

The pieces I'm looking at for CCW are as follows:

1) The Kel-Tec .380 ($250)
2) The Kel-Tec 9mm ($280 or so)
2) The Bersa Thunder .380 ($240)
3) A used Charles Daly Commander-style 1911 .45ACP ($350-$399)

The concerns:

1) The Kel-Tec just LOOKS like a toy. I mean, it's TINY!! I worry that being that small, it's gonna HURT when I practice, which means I won't, which means I won't be familiar...
2) Is the .380 cartridge just too small for the job? I worry that 9mm from such a small gun is going to get hard to manage--but would you trust your life to a .380, even at up-close-and-personal range? Can you compensate for size with ammo?
3) I'd snap up the CD .45 in a heartbeat, but I've heard such, er, wonderful things about Charles Daly pistols. Are they really that bad? And if they aren't, that seems a bit high for a used one...is it?
4) The Bersa comes well-recommended, but I'm wondering about accessories (this is where my wife comes in...her advice? "Which one has the most stuff for it?" Women...always accessorising!! ); will the Bersa Thunder fit holsters for the PPK? They seem about the same, although I've not seen them side-by-side. Failing that, what's the aftermarket like for them? Grips, sights, mags, and so forth?

Enquiring minds wanna know!! And, as always, TIA for anything you can give me on this.

 

[Preacherman]

As you'll see if you search other threads about them, the small Kel-Tec's are very iffy about reliability. Personally, I won't carry them, as I've never been able to find one (out of 2 P3-AT's and 3 P32's that I've owned) that would shoot 200 rounds without a single stoppage of some sort - a minimum defensive reliability standard, IMHO. There's also the factor that anything less than 9mm. Luger or .38 Special is rather low in the "stopping power" department. I'd rather go for an Airweight J-frame.

Nothing wrong with a Commander-size 1911, although I don't know the Charles Daly model itself. As long as it's reliable with your chosen ammo, go for it. I'd also suggest a SIG P220 police trade-in: these are also lightweight frames, and can be had in the low $400's (try CDNN).

 

[45R]

Sig 239 in 9mm
Sig 220 as posted above
Glock 30

 

[1911 guy]

Dance with who brung ya'!

If you are of average or large size (frame, not weight) spend your money on a good holster and carry what you've got. I'm 5' 9", and carry a 5" 1911.
Number one, you're familiar with what you already own.
Number two, It's cheaper to buy good leather than a good handgun.

This is in no way to mean you shouldn't buy another pistol, just don't abandon what you have now.

 

[ruger270man]

out of that group, I'd go with a Bersa 380

 

[obiwan1]

Go with what you got. the Secuity Six or 1911. Later you can look at the others. Of the "others", I own a KT p11. It's an excellent carry gun for short ranges (which is where most gunfights will be). I'd recommend it AFTER it's broken in. If you have more $ I'd go with a Kahr K40. A little heavy but a GREAT carry gun (except for pocket carry).

 

[Black Majik]

I'd personally go for your 1911, get a good IWB holsters such as the VMII or summer special II.

The 1911 is long, but it is also very slim. It'll ride close to your body with the proper holster and would be easy to conceal. Get a good quality holster along with a belt, and you should be good to go.

Looks like you want a smaller gun however, for pocket size, up your spending range a little. It is your life however, and get yourself a Kahr PM9. Its a pocket sized 9mm in a polymer frame.

 

[osteodoc08]

I have an RIA compact which is essentially a bare bones CD. I'd pass on it for a carry gun though. I have had minimal problems out of my gun, all that I have fixed rather easily. The most significant was the hammer bite. I replaced the grip safety and did some trigger work. It shoots great now. The only thing I have left to figure out is why the slide locks back before the last shot. I think it is a mag issue. A good range gun, but not a good carry piece. Out of the list, I'd go for the Bersa. Better yet, find a used XD.

 

[Ken Rainey]

What are you going to use to qualify with in the class? I'd use that and see how it goes before buying something else or at least while looking around and doing the pre carry testing for it. You mentioned a commander size 1911 for carry....and the 1911 you already have is a govt size?? if so, I'd just carry what you already have....the 3/4 inch more of barrel ain't the part thats hard to hide and with a good IWB (or just mexican carry) or even a belt holster with proper clothing, it ain't hard to carry.....actually, it's kind of comforting.

 

[CDH]

While I don't know that I could recommend the Bersa .380 because of the question of Bersa reliability, I've always felt that the .380 cartridge was just fine for defense (emphasis on the word "defense").

The best defensive weapon is one that you will carry, and I find that the Walther PP .380 I carry is so thin and easy to wear that I never have the thought of leaving it behind because of it being too darn heavy or big (or the weather is hot and sticky and uncomfortable to wear a holster).

While I have a .45 Commander and a good carry holster for it, as well as a Beretta Centurion 9mm, I always end up taking the Walther because it's so much more comfortable to wear.
So here's my point: a .45 that you (sometimes) leave behind and thus do NOT have with you when needed is nowhere near as good of a defensive weapon as is a .380 that you find you will have with you all the time.

To more severely illustrate the point, imagine always having to choose to carry either a Desert Eagle... or a S&W .22 Kitgun. I'll take the Kitgun any day over of the DE because I know that I'll actually CARRY the Kitgun while I'd be looking for any excuse to leave the DE hogleg behind.

My .02

Carter

 

[3rdpig]

Go to a range where you can rent different guns. I've got several of the guns you mention. I've got the tiny Kel-Tec, mine is a P32, and the larger Kel-Tec but mine is the .40. I've tried, either bought, borrowed or rented, just about every small pistol I could find looking for something that was just right for me. I still carry the P32 in a pocket holster as a BUG, but for my main CCW I carry a Glock 26. I suggest you try out one to see how you like it. I think it's the best CCW gun I've ever had. The same gun is available in 9mm, .40 and .357 Sig. It's a little too big for most people for pocket carry, but I can do it in cargo pants but more often will carry it in an IWB holster. It has the advantage of feeling and shooting just like the bigger Glocks and it also accepts the 17 round magazine. I picked mine up used in like new condition with 3 mags for $400.

 

[CajunBass]

I can't speak to the others, but my Kel-Tec P-11, 9mm has been "Ivory" soap reliable since I got it. 99 44/100%. It kicks a bit, about like a 38 snubbie, but is small and light enough to take anywhere with you.

I don't know if it's right for you, but I like it.

 

[horge]

Hi

Bersa Thunder 380 is reliable with practically every .380 ACP ammo brand out there.

However, keep in mind that .380 packs a lot less wallop than 9mm. You will have to train harder to have the confidence to make the shots count. The Thunder 380 is a more pleasant and naturally-accurate shooter than the Kel-Tec P3AT, but is much less concealable.

That price you quoioted for a USED Charles Daly might get you a brand new Rock Island Armory 1911. Both are made by Armscor in the Philippines, with the RIA assembled/fitted in the US by Armscor itself, and the CD assembled/fitted by CD/KBI.

RIA- and Armscor-branded Armscors get a much better rep than CD-branded Armscors.


Check out the BERSA Thunder Ultra Compact 9mm, if you can
It's a bit chunkier than it's popular .380 brother, but much less than a 1911,
and has a double-stack mag's worth of shots.


hth

horge

 

[chopinbloc]

i agree that the 1911, if it's reliable, or the baby eagle are what you should start with. get some good leather and tritium sights if you don't already have them and start carrying, you'll find that as time goes by you'll know more precisely what you want in weapon and leather (kydex, nylon?). i carry the glock 23. i think it's a great balance between power, round count, comfort and price. other people have different priortities and body types. i really believe that you won't know what really works until you start carrying all the time. if you're temted to leave the gun at home, don't. if you really can't stand carrying it, then get something smaller/lighter. rent guns, play with your friends guns and after about five years of carrying different gun and holster combinations, you'll probably find what works best for you. 'course, if you're anything like me, you'll still be tempted to buy other gear.

 

[147 Grain]

My wife loves the 4" Security Six 357 Mag and uses 38 Special FBI Loads in it for self defense. (Federal 158-gr. +P LSWCHP's at 890 fps)

 

[Sunray]

"...Taking gun tips from my wife..." The correct answer is, "Yes, dear." Then buy the one that fits your hand best.

 

[BluesBear]

Charles Daley commander sized
You are already familiar with the type and you already have magazines.

The CD is made in the Phillipines by Armscor
I have had very good experiences with all three Armscor .45s I have fired.

As for accessories... is there any handgun on the planet with more available accessories than the 1911 platform?

Besides it's a .45.

 

[Shootcraps]

The key to carrying comfortably is a good holster and belt. The KelTec P11 is an awesome carry piece. The price and features can't be beat. The CD is a good alternative.

 

[1911 guy]

CD's

I've got two Charles Daly's and a Springfield. The fit & finish of the springer is a tiny bit better, but I've had no difference in reliability. Take care of them and I get 100%. Of course if I get cocky and don't practice malfunction drills I'll start having them!

 

[PCRCCW]

Well, because of my profession and my wifes attention to detail.....Mine could recommend a gun/holster combination to 1/2 of the people on this board. And they would be well if they listened

For a primary carry.......I wouldnt recommend a .380. If you are considering a Commander......well, sit down. There are too many guns to recommend that would suit your needs VERY WELL! CZ Compact, Sig 229-239, Kahrs, etc.....
All world class guns. Dont limit yourself to the guns youve listed by any means.

Shoot well.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I'll agree with Preacherman on the P220 as an excellent choice in a .45. If the size bothers you initially, compare the size against a 1911 Commander-sized pistol. PCRCCW also has made a point with the CZ's. I own a PCR that is nearly perfect as far as size goes for CCW. Same applies to the P02 (oops...I meant P-O1. My mistake) . I just never found a need for the accessory rail, but I'm funny like that. Maybe put them beside a Compact CZ75.

The P228/P229/P239 choices are very well vetted also.

Bersa makes a fine .380, but I prefer something a little more spiffy than .380, although I own a Mauser HsC. That doesn't mean I carry it frequently. For small hands, there are plenty of 9mm choices that I feel more comfortable with.


Sunray might have given the most sage advice. She needs to pick her own handgun. You're only there to smile and agree with her wise choice, then whip out the plastic.


Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Dionysusigma]

I carry a Bersa practically whenever I'm not at work or asleep. I agree, the 9x17 isn't as powerful as I'd like, but I know this gun will be up to the task if it needs to be. The controls feel natural, it's never had a problem short of a simple mag fix, and I hide it well and easily.

As for the "Will it fit a PPK holster?", the answer is no. Not well, anyway. Back when I had a Crosman PPK BB gun, I picked up a Fobus belt holster for it and it only just held it in. The trigger guard, in addition to the overall proportions, are not the same... and this goes for the Bersa too.

The only aftermarket accessories I know of are rubber wrap-around grips, which came on mine when I bought it used. Without these, my fingers feel cramped and I can't get a good grip. Finger extensions are available too, IIRC.

I'll admit that I'm bisaed towards the Bersa. But hey--it's for a good reason.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The pieces I'm looking at for CCW are as follows:

1) The Kel-Tec .380 ($250)
2) The Kel-Tec 9mm ($280 or so)
2) The Bersa Thunder .380 ($240)
3) A used Charles Daly Commander-style 1911 .45ACP ($350-$399)

In your price range (but a tad on the heavy side) are the EAA WItness Compact pistols. My daily carry is one of these in 10mm. I got a good deal on it, but they can be had all day for $350, are boringly reliable and quite accurate. They also come in 9x19, 9x21, .40 and .45.

 

[Kalindras]

Wow...!

Thanks for all the input, guys!

All you folks who've stepped up and spoken for the SIGs...thanks, I'd love to, but unless I can talk CDNN into taking a trade for one of their Police guns, I STILL can't swing it. The CD that I was looking at is right out, now that I've double-checked my wallet. I look like having to keep it under $300, flat.

The CZs are tempting, but until I find a deal, they're still too much. Dang. I really like the P-01, but I haven't found one for less than $350.

I took the class yesterday, and shot my 1911 to qualify (Dagnabbit...I dropped two out of the 5-ring... ) with no problem. I'm comfortable with that weapon, but I just don't see how I'll be able to carry it, comfortably, concealed.

Anyway, I'm heading down to Houston this upcoming weekend, gonna swing by Collector's and play the touchy-feely game. Maybe try out some different holster styles. I'll take a few of my guns with me, and my available cash, and see what kind of a deal I can work with them. They've never steered me wrong in the past, and I'm hoping I can make something happen this time, too.

Heck, maybe I'll just get some sort of monster Derringer. If I can put two shots of .600 Nitro Express into 'em, well, I'd guess that'd be about the same as ten rounds of 9mm...

 

[1911 guy]

Kalindras,

If you choose to carry something other than the 1911 that's fine, but let me attempt to calm your fears before you do something you think you have to do instead of something you want to do.
I carry a 5" (full size) 1911 as my only carry piece. I have a couple, all are 5" models. I wear a T-shirt to keep skin oils from rusting my pistol and to keep my pistol from rubbing me raw with the grip panels. Over the pistol I wear a polo shirt one size too big or a button down untucked if very informal (weekend knocking around). For formal occasions you'll be wearing a suit, so that's a non issue as well.
You can infinitely vary the style of shirt/pant combos to fit any situation. Extreme examples: winter, wear jeans, heavy T-shirt, and an untucked flannel shirt (around the house or errands) or cover it with a printed dress shirt to make it more presentable. Your image, that is, not the gun's.
Summer, a pair of shorts, sandals, tank top, and hawaiian print shirt over it all.

My advice is to carry the 1911 since you seem to like it. Get a GOOD holster and belt, carry a little high on your waist behind the point of your hip. The pistol kinds gets put into the curve in your back.