Taking my new DSA STG58 to the range...

[FenderTK421]

Picked up my new DSA FAL. Wanted this rifle for a VERY long time, and from what I have seen so far, I am extremely pleased w/ the overall quality/build. I have read the manual repeatedly for the last month (I downloaded in advance, of course ) and I am comfortable w/ setting the gas system etc... I have already field stripped/cleaned/lubed and generally familiarized myself w/ everything. this will probably be my last new toy for about 3 months; so I really want to make every round of 7.62 Nato Fun count. I have 60 rounds of brown bear and 150 rounds of Brit surplus to send downrange Sunday.
I would love to hear from anyone else who has one of these rifles; particularly what, if anything, to expect during break-in, and any tips/pearls of wisdom you may have picked up along the way. Ie... any particular tools that are a must have at the range, any specific tricks for clearing a jam, etc... I have heard of the FAL Pogo/Dance to get a stuck casing from the chamber. Anyone care to elaborate? Thanks for any and all feedback.

 

[M1key]

DSA here...pogo dance?

 

[FenderTK421]

Something to do w/ slamming the butt against the ground to encourage the bolt to eject a stuck casing... apparently an alternative to kicking the cocking knob until it breaks.. didn't sound like something I'd try til I heard why and how to do it w/ out damage to the rifle.


Edit.. that wasn't real clear. Basically I have read that some users have experienced a VERY stuck casing while tuning the gas system. If too much gas is bled away from the action, not leaving enough for it to fully cycle, the recoil may slam the already spent casing so hard into the chamber that it is a pain to extract. I heard of some people kicking the bolt handle til it broke, others banging the butt against the ground to give the bolt enough momentum to break loose and take the casing w/ it via the extractor. Probably over thinking this. I just don't want my one day off cut short because I'm a newb and something perfectly correctable sends me home. thanks again.

 

[M1key]

Then skip the Brown bear ammo. Just shoot the Radway Green...it should work fine.

 

[FenderTK421]

Drat... I was hoping this thing would be blind to the whole brass/steel case thing. No such luck, huh? Does yours shoot the Russian junk once it's tuned in?

Edit: So that's what the 'RG' stands for! Thanks M1Key and Wikipedia!

Anyone else?

 

[powermad]

If the spent round short strokes it will cram it back into the chamber.

It's no big deal if you know what to do.
Place the palm of your hand against the charging handle knob and raise the butt off the deck a few inches.

Use your palm on the knob and smack the butt on the ground.

Generally occurs when you are first adjusting the gas.
Or if you are shooting one type of ammo and have the gas adjusted so it doesn't toss the brass into the next county and switch to another that runs with the gas set higher and forget to adjust the regulator.

I wouldn't shoot the BB ammo in it just yet.
I would stick to known good ammo for breaking it in.
Mine has thousands of rounds through it and is well broken in.
I still won't shoot steel cased ammo through it.

As for breaking it in, you can shoot it in but that can get pricey these days.
Or speed things up at home.

The first thing I would do would be to hit the rails that the carrier rides on with some 320 grit paper and polish it. That park is pretty rough.
Then I would break the sharp edges off the bottom of the rails with a file.
Emory paper wrapped around a popsicle stick will work as well.
That will take care of most feeding problems right off the bat.

If you hand cycle a few rounds you will notice that the brass will have some pretty good creases in it, not scratched.

I should note that when I hand cycle live ammo I remove the firing pin first.
No chance of a problem in the house that way.

RG stands for Radway Green, British NATO spec ammo.

This thread has all current prices for 7.62x51.http://www.rifle-company.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=431
AIM has a pretty good deal on FN 7.62 right now.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Basically I have read that some users have experienced a VERY stuck casing while tuning the gas system. If too much gas is bled away from the action, not leaving enough for it to fully cycle, the recoil may slam the already spent casing so hard into the chamber that it is a pain to extract.

I have experienced this twice when tuning FAL gas regulators. On the 18", don't go below setting 3, even with quality brass-cased new ammo. My recommendation. Both jams seemed awful when trying to rack the charging handle by hand, but a quick pogo popped them out with no problems. Pogo = hold one hand on charging handle while firmly smacking buttstock into soft ground.

 

[firstater]

TK421 -what is your break-in process? Depending on what you read some say just fire the darn thing, others say clean after each shot and repeat.
I'm a new FAL owner myself and hope to make it to the range tomorrow.
Great Post.

Give us a range report and let us know how it went.

 

[powermad]

For breaking in the barrel you can use the W.E.G. method as follows.
I like to daisy-chain .357 brushes together and wrap them in cotton patches.

About 40 inches of daisy-chained bore-seasoning awesomeness should do.

Fire a shot.

Dunk the awesomeness-chain in a bucket of Ballistol, and pull it into the barrel so it has patches pressed to the barrel from end-to-end.

Let sit for 30 minutes between shots.

After firing 10 shots with conventional ammo this way, fire five more shots with black powder.

Allow the black-powder fouling to sit for 4 hours.
The black-powder fouling draws out any remaining impurities.

Then scrub well with a soap and ammonia solution.

This seasons the metal, and prepares it to receive pore-inundation from the powder you will use in your loads.

The process should be repeated if you change powders.
--------------------------------
Myself, I just shot it a bunch. 500 rounds the first time out.
Cleaned it when I got home, which consisted in..
Hosing out the action with carb cleaner, spraying some carb clean down the barrel, then some spray CLP followed by a bore snake.

That's about it.
If you want to spend a bunch of time fiddling with patches and stuff that's up to you.

 

[Hatterasguy]

I break in all my new rifles by shooting them a lot.


Have fun with it, a DSA Fal is on my must have list.

 

[FenderTK421]

Thanks for all the advice guys! I really appreciate it. Glad you clarified the pogo method for me. Though it does leave me w/ another question: Is there any reason to start w/ the gas fully closed (#7)? I think the results will be quite predictable. Any reason not to start at say.. 6?

As for breaking the barrel in... I guess I will do as DSA instructs and fire 1, clean til 10, then fire 2 clean till 20. Not looking forward to it but I really want this rifle to be as accurate as possible for long range plinking. I have 2 AR's that recommended doing the exact same thing. I did it w/ one; and just shot 100 through the other. I can't tell the difference. Sounds like you will get to go shooting a day before me, Firstater - please let me know how it turns out.

Also, thanks for the advice on the Brown Bear ammo. I have shelved it and picked up another 150 of the RG. So the 300 rounds of Brit surplus should be enough to put a smile on my face tomorrow. And awesome advice on the rail clean-up Powermad, much obliged. I'll tell you how she does tomorrow!

 

[rduckwor]

Also, thanks for the advice on the Brown Bear ammo. I have shelved it and picked up another 150 of the RG. So the 300 rounds of Brit surplus should be enough to put a smile on my face tomorrow.

And a large bruise on your shoulder! When you get around to shooting the Russian, expect inconsistency in the quality of the loads, some will be lighter, some hotter.

Is your barrel a brand new DSA built barrel?

I thought this model was typically a rebuild of Austrian guns with DSA receivers. Possible your barrel is already well broken in.

Have fun,

RMD

 

[FenderTK421]

brand new U.S.

 

[M1key]

All of my FALs have chrome-lined bores. "Breaking in" a chrome-lined barrel is pointless...

Just shoot the dang thing!

 

[Z-Michigan]

All of my FALs have chrome-lined bores. "Breaking in" a chrome-lined barrel is pointless.

Some FALs did have chrome-lined bores, but all of DSA's current production uses new US-made barrels that do NOT have chrome-lined bored.

Whether break-in is worth it with a non-lined bore is an ongoing discussion.

 

[M1key]

Okay...but I still wouldn't..

It's a battle rifle folks.

 

[FenderTK421]

Range Report

Shot about half my ammo up. Very pleased w/ the rifle. Broke the barrel in as DSA suggested. Tuning the gas was very easy. Started on 7, rifle didn't cycle, of course. Was easily able to hand cycle the spent cartridge. One click to 6.5 was exactly the same. At 6 the rifle ejected the spent case but did not lock open on the empty mag. At 5.5 the first round did lock the bolt back, so I repeated; and it didn't lock the bolt back. At 5 it consistently locked the bolt back so I kept it there for about 5 rounds to make sure. Then moved it the recommended 2 further clicks. Fired about 10 rounds at setting 4. Cartridge extraction was... Extremely positive, so I turned it back one notch and kept it at 4.5 for the rest of the day.

I cleaned after every shot for the 1st 10 rounds, then after 2 shots for 20 more rounds. While cleaning and tuning the gas I wasn't really paying attention to my target, didn't even have the spotting scope set up. Sadly these 1st 20 rounds were probably my best shots. The rifle is far more accurate than I am, but I admit I struggled w/ the sights. I intend to leave this open-sights, so perhaps I will look into an upgrade. Keeping 5-10 rounds in a 4-5" circle at 100 yards was no problem for the rifle, but the point of impact is almost exactly 12" lower than the point of aim. The manual had very little info on adjusting the front sight for elevation and it looks like a special tool is required. At least I was unable to move it using a knife in my left hand, a bullet tip in my right, occasionally another bullet tip controlled from my mouth and plenty of those old standby natural lubes- blood, sweat and swear words.

The rifle cycled very well, no hints at all of wanting to hang up. I did take Powermads advice and cleaned the rails for and on the slide. Rather than completely polishing them I used a wad of steel wool and some wd40 and the park came right off. About 10 min per component side. I put the slider back in the rails and ran it up and down the rails like lapping for some time as well. After the polishing it was noticeably smoother, no grit left at all.

Not real impressed by the trigger, but I was kind of expecting that. The top cover (that I had to remove some 21 times today) is the only part of the rifle that doesn't have a perfect fit. It wants to hang up on the last millimeter or so. Putting down pressure on the forward most portion with my left hand and using a grease rag as a cushion for my right palm I could slam it on pretty easily after I got used to the procedure.

Recoil was not at all unpleasant, though after 150 rounds that one spot on my shoulder certainly knew I had been shooting today. The front hand-guards are kind of crappy, and I was surprised how quickly they get hot. Unbearably hot even. The bi-pod is the perfect height for use at a bench. I did fire some rounds from a kneeling position, sling wrapped around elbow, elbow planted on knee. Almost as good as from the bench. Standing, using the sling for steadiness, wasn't as easy. Rifle is very front end heavy and I was getting some pretty good sway. More practice needed there. I didn't feel like lying in the gravel so I don't know how the ergonomics from a prone position would be. Speaking of Ergonomics, I find the butt-stock just a little short. Would be nice if it were about an inch longer. While it didn't feel un-handy, un-wieldly or at all pig-like, firing from the standing position will remind you that this is a LONG rifle.

Thanks again for all the advice, suggestions and help. I appreciate all the info you guys armed me w/ for her maiden outing. If any of you are thinking of picking up an FAL, I would highly recommend the DSA. Great Rifle.

 

[stubbicatt]

Glad you are enjoying your new rifle. They do get hot, don't they?

 

[firstater]

Great, thanks for the followup.

 

[15guns]

I've been wanting a 308 semi auto rifle for a while to. I looked at a cetme in person. The FALS look like they have better controls than a cetme.

 

[Candiru]

I had to grin when I saw this post because just yesterday my 18" DSA STG58 got taken to the range for the first time. Reading about cycling issues with shorter-barreled FALs had me worried about potentially having to close the gas down very tight to get reliable performance, but those fears proved groundless. Setting the gas to 7 short-stroked the bolt as expected, resulting in the case getting jammed into the chamber. I didn't know at the time that was why the bolt felt stuck, but a hard yank on the charging handle fixed things. All it took to get perfectly reliable functioning was turning the gas down to 6; sighting in was done by loading a single shot into the magazine, and never once over the course of nearly 20 rounds did it fail to lock back. The gas is staying at 6 for now because retrieving brass without a hike is a more common problem for me than being in a firefight.

The metal handguards got fairly warm, but not unbearably so. The fastest I expended ammo was at the rate of about 20 rounds in 45-60 seconds, which resulted in some pretty cool smoke wafting out of the handguards. Given that I don't usually shoot much faster than that, the amount of heat transmission is bearable.

I think I'll let the gun wear itself in. There's still a lot of grit in the action, even when liberally lubricated, but the natural wear process will polish the parts where they need to be, and nowhere else. Given that it is functioning reliably as-is, why mess with a good thing?

Gotta agree, though--it's a hoot to shoot. My prior .308 rifle was an M1A loaded with scope mount and optic, which makes the FAL feel downright nimble and svelte at its 9 pounds. Oh yeah, removing the bipod will make it feel a lot less front-heavy; it immediately knocks off almost a pound of weight.