Taurus Judge Buckshot gelatin results

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federal makes "taurus judge .410 defense rounds".

not sure how much better they are than standard .410 rounds out of a judge.

the performance isn't very impressive, unless at point blank range....
 
The Judge is a snake gun. That's all it's good for. It's not rifled enough to be very accurate with .45LC, it's not long enough to be a good shotgun, and .410 isn't very powerful even out of a proper shotgun. A .410 slug is actually significantly less powerful than a .45LC bullet. You're just as well using .45 shotshell loads since it's only useful for snakes anyway. The Judge is oversized, overweight, and overhyped. It provides no benefit that cannot be had over a standard .45LC revolver with specialty ammo.
 
Is the Taurus Judge an AUTOLOADER? you are in the wrong spot. But might as well give my 2 cents, if you do not already have a Judge then save your money it is a total failure as a gun, good marketing hype though.
 
"The Judge is a snake gun. That's all it's good for. It's not rifled enough to be very accurate with .45LC, it's not long enough to be a good shotgun, and .410 isn't very powerful even out of a proper shotgun. A .410 slug is actually significantly less powerful than a .45LC bullet. You're just as well using .45 shotshell loads since it's only useful for snakes anyway. The Judge is oversized, overweight, and overhyped. It provides no benefit that cannot be had over a standard .45LC revolver with specialty ammo."



I couldn't have said it better!!!
 
If you want a smaller revolver that is just as or more effective than the Judge get a 38 snub nose revolver. No one buys the Judge because it shoots 45 Colt as an afterthought. Great marketing by Taurus, you got to respect that.
 
Why does everyone accept the box of truth results as fact? They cut down shells, and totallty flawed the "test." Those results are garbage. How about someone does some testing with the new handgun 410 loads and the judge?
 
I'm unaware of any credible gelatin test results for .410 gauge 000 buck. However MacPherson's "Lead Alloy Sphere Penetration Depth" table shows a theoretical penetration of approximately 22" for 000 buck @ 1200 fps. Pellet acceleration and impact deformation may reduce penetration performance but it should still penetrate a minimum of 12" regardless.
 
*IF* you an get the buck moving that fast out of a Judge, then the results would be on par with a shotgun and give you fine penetration. But that's not going to happen.

Here's another test from another guy, also showing bad deformation of following shot. Penetration was somewhat better than Box O Truth, but assuming penetration in water at 1.8 times the rate of BG, still very poor. And the patterning was awfully scattered. On top of which, FPS was well below the 1200 or more from a proper shotgun.

http://mcb-homis.com/judge/index.htm

Let's be realistic. The .410 even out of a full size shotgun or levergun is for little critters. Crammed down into a revolver it's fine for snakes and such, but it's not a very sensible self defense round. And if you have a revolver that can ALSO chamber .45 Colt, the choice is between a de facto snake load or a cartridge proven for self defense since the 1870s.
 
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I own a Taurus Judge Ultra-lite and take it to the range along with my Glocks (21, 27) and S&W's etc. It is obvious that some people on here have never shot a Judge. They are just spitting out what they have read. Let me tell you at 15 yards I can hit the target dead center using Hornaday .45JHP. At the same distance the 000 buck shot blasts holes in the plywood backing to my targets.

If you think that the Judge isn't effective at that range, I invite you to stand at 15 yards and let me shoot you with the .410 000buckshot. Then tell me how effective it is on your way to the emergency room!!! After all it is a defensive weapon that I use beside my bed. If I use it for that purpose I'm pretty sure I will be using it under 15 yards anyway.
 
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Not the "volunteer to be shot" argument again, please. On top of the "never shot" argument! That's two fallacies in a row. If you're hitting dead center with Hornady .45 Colts, that's your defense load. And an excellent one it is, too. Why you'd be tempted to swap that for three deformed, underpowered and badly scattered bits of buckshot is beyond me.
 
If you think that the Judge isn't effective at that range, I invite you to stand at 15 yards and let me shoot you with the .410 000buckshot. Then tell me how effective it is on you way to the emergency room!!!
Click to expand...

I guess I'd have to just ask "Why"? In the same weight and price range you can get revolvers that will shoot accurately not only at 15 yards, but at 100 yards and with much more impressive ballistics.
If you want to just spit 90 grain pellets, then why not use a .380?

And as someone already pointed out, any revolver can shoot birdshot, so what exactly is the point of this revolver?
 
The Judge is a snake gun. That's all it's good for. It's not rifled enough to be very accurate with .45LC, it's not long enough to be a good shotgun, and .410 isn't very powerful even out of a proper shotgun. A .410 slug is actually significantly less powerful than a .45LC bullet. You're just as well using .45 shotshell loads since it's only useful for snakes anyway. The Judge is oversized, overweight, and overhyped. It provides no benefit that cannot be had over a standard .45LC revolver with specialty ammo.
Click to expand...

+1. the judge is a poor choice for personal defense for many reasons.
 
ET said:
If you think that the Judge isn't effective at that range, I invite you to stand at 15 yards and let me shoot you with the .410 000buckshot. Then tell me how effective it is on your way to the emergency room
Click to expand...

I'd rather they be telling me how effective it is on their way to the morgue. Or not, because they're dead. You don't want to send them to the emergency room. You want to kill them or wound them enough to immediately end the threat (typically means killing them).

Any revolver can shoot shotshells. Interesting fact, though, is that these pistol shotshells are actually significantly more powerful than a genuine .410 load because pistol cartridges are capable of higher pressures. The .410 load is designed to operate in low-pressure shotguns. Thus, despite its length, it is actually fairly low-powered in comparison to shorter, higher-pressure cartridges. The pistol shotgun shells are loaded to the much-higher pistol specs. Thus you're actually losing a lot of power by shooting a .410 shell versus a .45LC pistol shotshell.

Bottom line: the Judge is an oversized, overpriced piece of trash. You're much better off with a standard revolver.
 
Theories work in theory because the theory is sound.
Reality is a whole different bear.

Having fired several Taurus JUDGE revolvers in short and long barrel, 2.5" and 3" version, I can attest that Old Painless Box O Truth assesment of the guns is sound.

They are disappointing with .410 shells and even more so with .45 Colt cartridges.

But hey, It is your money, buy what excites your inner child,,,,
 
Not to shake the old box o' truth, but my Judge is very accurate with 45 lc and the new personal protection 410 shells produce a very tight pattern. It's a wonderful "pistol".....Just my personal experience. Plus, it's really fun to shoot.
 
*IF* you an get the buck moving that fast out of a Judge, then the results would be on par with a shotgun and give you fine penetration. But that's not going to happen.
Click to expand...
FP_410HandgunShotshell_sm.jpg
Note the box specifies ".410 Handgun".

Federal's marketing dope for PD412JGE (1200 fps*):
"The Judge from Taurus has emerged as a very popular handgun for Personal Defense. This specialized gun has been without a specialized load-until now. Federal introduces two 2-1/2" loads designed especially for The Judge. A special hull design and optimal payloads make these loads perfect for this gun. Choose between a 1/2-oz #4 or 4 pellet 000 buck option-either way the performance will be there."

See: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/print/details/shotshell.aspx?id=847

*Given the error in shot charge weight (4.34 oz) in the "Load Details" table on Federal's website, one must regard Federal's velocity claim of 1200 fps with suspicion until someone actually measures PD412JGE from a Judge revolver.
 
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Well, if the load data on those Federals is accurate, you could certainly lay down a fusillade of shot from close range! I would also hope they're using hardened shot that wouldn't flatten out in the barrel as in the Box O' Truth tests.
A 30 ounce revolver wouldn't make an ideal carry gun, but I suppose you could do worse...
 
Bottom line: the Judge is an oversized, overpriced piece of trash.
Click to expand...

That may be a bit harsh. Just because it may or may not make a good self defense tool doesn't make it trash.

They're very fun to shoot. I'd love to take one home and try hitting a few clays with it. I can't justify the price when I have other "fun" guns I'd like to buy. I seem to be sorely lacking a 22 autoloader handgun since I sold mine.

Like others have said, and the box o' truth also...it's great for "snakes n' such."
 
I use the Federal .410 Handgun 000 shells in my Judge. They have a specially designed sabot to control spread, and 4 copper jacketed pellets. Standard 410 000 shells are ineffective in the Judge. But the Federals are deadly and accurate at twice the range, I've tested them , plenty of penetration for the purpose of defense. Check out this range report.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=27804.0
 
I dunno if I want a gun that limits me to 1 brand and style of ammo to be effective.
A gun preferring a certain loading is one thing... but when its essentially 2 steps from useless without it, thats a different animal.


Jim
 
I wouldn't condemn it completely. It is what it is--a Taurus fun gun. They're very experimental and I appreciate that. So few firearm companies are willing to take risks. But common sense comes into play when you're selecting an actual defensive firearms. For some reason some folks are convinced that some buckshot out of a .410 is the bee's knees for self defense. I think it's because of the thought of a revolver sized shotgun. Yet not all shotguns are alike. There's a very very big difference between a .410 shotshell from a revolver and a 12 gauge shell from a proper shotgun.

I also think people imagine being able to "hose down" an area with shot from the revolver, fired rapidly. Which is not a good tactic no matter how you look at it. The only real advantage I can see it having is on some intruder who starts getting peppered and hearing shot bounce around the place. But it's not going to drop him very effectively. Maybe he'll run off, maybe he'll give up, and maybe he'll shoot you with something bigger than a .410. Not something you want him deciding.

The final factor I think is the term "buckshot" itself. For lots of people it gives rise to images of bad guys flying up in the air and through plate glass windows.
 
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