Taurus or Springfield 1911

[MPanova]

I have handled atleast 20 different Pt1911's and not one has had a safty problem Mine functions 100% and I have had owners of Kimbers and Colts and a number of other 1911 makers shoot my Taurus and tell me they waisted there money on something else when they could have got a better shooting pistol for a lot less in the Taurus. I have well over 4000 rounds through mine and like I said its 100% with any ammo. I get 1 inch groups at 25 yards all day long. I was so impressed by the gun I bought my Dad one. He now has well over 2000 trouble free rounds through his. If you want more bang for your back and something you wont have to jack with and do upgrades to make work just right go with the PT1911.

 

[cpirtle]

I have one of the PT1911's from the first batch "in country" and bought it for $425 + tax NIB. Mine is absolutely flawless with an incredible trigger. With many rounds down the pipe it's been dead reliable even with some corroded Silver Bear JHP's that would have choked a goat.

That said, I have looked at newer ones to come in and I don't think they are quite as good as the first run. Combined with the dramatic price increase I would consider spending a little more for a Springfield Loaded if I wanted another 1911 (I'm not a big 1911 fan).

If you can inspect your gun and get a good deal on it I say go for the Taurus. If you need to mail order it, or special order it from the dealer I would go the Springfield route.

JMHO

Here's mine:

 

[The Annoyed Man]

I bought a Sigarms 1911 Revolution Carry Stainless, and it is a beautifully made gun. One thing you can look for in Sig pistols are those that are Certified Pre-Owned, which go for a huge price savings.

The Sig factory CPO program involves their taking back pistols that have been out for testing by police departments, magazines, and other interested organizations. Sig goes through each returned firearm and completely refurbishes it to "like new" condition - replacing or repairing any worn or damaged parts. Mine came with Novak tritium night sights and these grips, which are like a very rough hard rubber that has a very secure feeling to it. This 1911 also has a match grade barrel, hammer, sear set and trigger. It is built like a bank vault, and as far as I'm concerned the only difference between this CPO pistol and a brand new one is that the barrel is already broken in.

The list price for a new Sig 1911 like mine is $1,049.95. I paid $699 for my CPO version. Any time you can save $350.00 on the price of a great pistol, that is a good thing. The giant sporting goods store where my son works had a sale on CPO Sigs in .40 S&W last Saturday. They were blowing them out the door for $500.00 apiece all day long.

It's not that I'm a huge Sig fan. This is the only Sig pistol I own. But the brand is generally acknowledged as well made, reliable, and accurate, and the CPO program is a hell of a way to get into a very nice pistol at a much reduced price if brand new is out of your reach.

 

[greener]

I hope ugaarguy returns with some details. If he works in a gunshop, he should have some details that would be interesting.

Every manufacturer makes a few substandard pistols. I guess quality is the ratio of substandard pistols. You also get two kinds of reviews on fora. One review is "its the greatest, a bazillion rounds and not one problem." The other review type is exactly the opposite. I recall reading some comments about how lousy the Sig P226 was. A week later I shot my son's. It was his duty pistol, used when he got it and he had the opportunity to buy it when the department dumped all their old pistols. That pistol had a great opportunity to show just how bad Sig's were. Trouble was, it shot great.

I think the PT1911 gets knocked by loads of detractors because of Taurus' reputation way back when. Mine is one of the few pistols I own that I bought without shooting a similar one before hand. So far, I can't find much wrong with it. Functions well, shoots well. Seems to do better every time I shoot it. Can't say what it will be like in August, 2008 or farther out, but, for now, I have zero complaints. Is it the best 1911 out there? Probably not. Is it under-rated? yes.

PS. If I were to judge handgun quality on one firing, the best .45 I've shot was a Hi-Point. The one ragged hole god woke up long enough to smile at the 5 rounds I shot.

 

[Kevin108]

I'm not incredibly impressed with my SA GI but at the same time...it's a 1911, you can make it into whatever you want!

 

[shooter1]

I currently own half a dozen 1911s besides the PT-1911 that I bought last Dec or Jan. I'd have to look at the paperwork to know for sure. Paid $480 + tax for the Taurus. This is my first Taurus pistol, and I got my money's worth! The other 1911s I own are Kimbers/Colt/Springfields/ and STI. The Taurus performance is on a par with those pistols, with the exception of the Kimbers. For an entry level 1911 the Taurus or the Springfield Loaded are great buys. Oooops, forgot about my Charles Daly. I have a stainless in Officer's size, it has also run without a hitch as well. I say buy what you like, any 1911 is a great buy!
str1

 

[ugaarguy]

Can you be more specific about this? The thumb safety on mine seems move without excess effort and appears to stop the slide and trigger from moving. I use safeties but don't rely on them. If I were looking for a problem with the thumb safety, what should I be looking for?

What other problems should we be looking for?

To clarify, the RH lever of the ambi safety (side a lefty would thumb) would slip several degrees before positively engaging to either activate or deactivate the safety. This slippage barely left enough room on the downward arc to disengage the safety - you had to literally press the RH lever into the grip to deactivate the safety.

This example was also rough internally. When riding the slide forward on an empty chamber - SOP on 1911 to prevent damege to the extractor, and the hammer/sear engagement surface - you had to be very careful with the speed you let it go forward. It was easy to ride it forward just a bit too slowly and the slide would hang on the disconnector locking it open.

To be fair our demand for these is low, particularly because Kimber & Springfield 1911s sell so well for us. We haven't gotten many PT1911s in, but the other one's we've gotten in have had similar problems with rough finish or poor parts fitment. Despite the low numbers we get in, I've been underwhelmed with the limited examples of PT1911s I've handled.

We do however sell quite a few Taurus poly frame pistols and see a far disproportionate returned to sold ratio with these. We tell folks about the numbers we see returned, yet some still insist on buying them.

Their metal frame pistols like the PT92 and those based off of it have a far lower return ratio. I've actually considered a PT92/99 because i prefer the frame mounted safety to the slide mounted one seen on Beretta 92s. Their revolvers remain a good value with fit & finish that's generally quite good.

I don't wan't to bash any brand, but I don't want to see folks dissapointed with their choice because I didn't disclose my observations either.

 

[shooter1]

ugaarguy,

Inernal machining marks are very minimal on the two PT-1911 pistols I have examaned throughly . (Mine & a friend's) Certaintly better than the Fillipno pistols I've examined, and no worse than some of the other Brazilians. (I have casually examaned a dozen or so at my dealer.) I have not seen the safety problem you mentioned, these examples engaged/disengaged easily with a nice click. The slides when hand cycled slowly, ran smoothly and without a hitch when properly lubricated. The only thing I've seen that I consider negative is the chamfered firing pin hole in the breech face. This causes no real problem, but causes the primers to bulge when fired. This is only on one pistol. Mine does not do this. I don't know about other Taurus pistols, the PT is the only Taurus I own. It looks to me as if Taurus got this one right. Time will tell. If prices continue to rise, Taurus may price themselves out of the 1911 business. At <$500, they are a deal, at $600> I'd buy a Springfield Loaded.
str1

 

[GRIZ22]

My Taurus PT1911 has no problems,mine works like it's supposed to, gives good accuracy and is one of the best bargains on the 1911 market as far as I'm concerned. It cost me $477 OTD tax, NICS, etc.

I've also had great experiences with Springfields.

If prices continue to rise, Taurus may price themselves out of the 1911 business. At <$500, they are a deal, at $600> I'd buy a Springfield Loaded.


I may not agree with your alternate selection but do agree that Taurus can hurt themselves if they keep raising the price.

When riding the slide forward on an empty chamber - SOP on 1911 to prevent damege to the extractor, and the hammer/sear engagement surface - you had to be very careful with the speed you let it go forward.

I have shot 1911s for almost 40 years and have never heard of this SOP. I have also never damaged or broken an extractor. I tried this on my PT1911 and it is very slick. I was unable to get the slide to hang up on anything no matter how slow I let the slide forward. It both cases maybe I'm just lucky.

I don't have any experience with taurus poly framed pistols but do have 6 Taurus handguns purchased between 1988 and 2007. Never have had any problem with any of them.

I'm not bashing anyone's opinion as we are all entitled to one.

 

[ugaarguy]

I have shot 1911s for almost 40 years and have never heard of this SOP. I have also never damaged or broken an extractor.

Actually I got my parts confused. It's barrel lugs, not the extractor. See XB's post qouting Hilton Yam for clearer & more detailed info here -
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3352306&postcount=21

 

[Ala Dan]

Springfield Armory-

Both, the WW-II G.I. replica and the MIL SPEC have proven to be very
dependable weapons for me. These weapons are forged by Imbel down
in Brazil; and this company has an outstanding reputation as to their
quality. While the Taurus PT 1911 is priced to compete; I don't see
much competition here, as I've read of many parts breakages on the
Taurus~!

And, for what its worth- the Taurus "limited lifetime warranty" is not
what its cracked up to be. If you don't believe me, just look up the
thread where the gentleman from California sent a Taurus model 85
back four times; without the factory fixing it~~! And, we are talk'in
'bout a revolver here folks.

 

[shooter1]

Ala Dan,
Please expand on the PT-1911 parts breakage you "read" about. I must have missed it somehow.
str1

 

[Kevinch]

I'm a fan of Taurus firearms, & I've been interested in one of their 1911 pistols. Still, someone mentioned looking at RIA & I'd second that advice.

I looked at one a few weeks ago. It seemed to be a lot of gun for the money, and would be ideal as a glove compartment piece. The only reason I didn't buy it (or a Taurus) was the barrel length - I was looking for a 4" or 4¼"; while you can get the RIA in a Commander length I believe we are still waiting for the Taurus

 

[RobZ71LM7]

I saw the thumb safety break on a new one at the range. Personally I'd go with a Springfield. It should tell you something that the better crop of 1911 smiths will use a Springfield for a base and scoff at the thought of using a Taurus. Check out louderthanwords or 10-8 forums.

 

[jad0110]

Both the Taurus and SA 1911s are good guns from what I can tell, though my personal experience is limited to the SA Mil-Spec. I would also have to recommend that you consider the RIA 1911. Very affordable and a good reputation for reliability and customer service. Keep your eyes open for a used Norinco as well.

Between a Taurus and a Springer, as I said both are fine guns. Both turn out the occasional lemon of course. That's where Springfield Armory has a big edge on Taurus, IMHO. I have dealt the Tauri's "Customer Service", if that's what you want to call it. Though I really like their product line, I can't get over how crappily my problem was handled when I sent my Model 94 back to them.

SA seems to have about the best customer service in the industry. They really go out of their way to take care of you when you have a problem. I don't know about you, but I like to reward companies like that (if they have something I want, of course).

I'd buy the Springfield for it's service reputation. I was reading a story on the 1911 forums about a guy who's 1911 flew out of his backpack on his motorcycle at 80+ miles an hour. They made it look/function brand new and mailed it back to him. I've heard nothing but good things about SA. I have a SA 1911 GI, and love it, eats everything you feed it and has been dead reliable. You can buy a GI for like $450 NIB if you shop around, milspecs seem to be around $75-$100 more, and add $50 to that if you want stainless.

For the record, he did have to come up with something like $120. But geez, it was totally 100% his fault! The thing got run over by cars and trucks, it was beaten to total crap (as a side note, the gun stayed in condition 1 - cocked and locked). SA did not have to do what they did, so $120 to me his waaaay more than fair.

Here's the whole story: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=174946

The only consistent complaits I here about the SA GI and Mil-Spec1911s are:

- They come with crappy mags. I would modify that statement to say "They come with fine mags with crappy mag springs". I put Wolff 11# springs in my SA/Metalform mags and they work perfectly.

- They come with crappy trigger. This I do agree with, so plan on a trigger job. Many probably have fine triggers, but a lot don't. My trigger had a lot of creep, it was heavy (about 8 #s), rough and gritty. For $50 it is much improved now. Ultra slick with a nice clean break at about 4.5 #s. Works for me.

I think the extractor tension is a little tight on mine (it fails to eject a spent case every now and then). Since the extractor is such a critical component in a 1911, I had planned on installing a Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor anyway, so that doesn't bother me much.

One other thing that the SA GI and Milspec or RIA 1911 has on the Taurus, if it matters at all to you: they do look more "original", especially when wearing original GI bakelite grip panels:

 

[Ala Dan]

Greetings shooter1 my friend-

The main thing that customers seem to complain about breaking is the
extended safety's. More than one account as been written about them
on various forums. Otherwise, they seem to be fairly good weapons.

 

[shooter1]

Thanks, Dan for the reply, I have not seen, nor heard of the safety breakage thing. I'll see what my heavy thumb does to mine!
If anyone has first hand information on parts breakage on the PT-1911, please post to this thread. I like to have a "Heads Up" on what to expect, good or bad!
str1

 

[glockman19]

Springfield over Taurus every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[cmw2212]

I had a PT1911 and the right side of the safety had some play I took it apart and half of the tab for the safety that mates up was broken off. It took forever to get a replacement and I traded it off. I have since gotten a SA GI and I will never get rid of the SA.