Taurus PT 709 SLIM 9mm anygood?
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The Lone Haranguer
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This early report is not favorable. It is impossible to say if this is just one bad apple or the whole bunch is bad.
W L Johnson
Member
Here, I'll copy and paste what I said in another thread
Well... just got back from the range today after running about 200 rounds through the little 709. The ammo was a mix of Winchester white box, CCI Blazer Alum case and a few Remington Golden sabers 124 +P Hollow points. I am happy to say that I didn't have a single problem at all. No FTF's, FTE;s, or misfires. Best 5 shot group was about 1.5 inches at 21 feet free standing (with the Win white box), but most were closer to 2 to 3 inches, about the same as my CZ Rami did as well.
Points to note
1) Trigger: It's long and smooth all the way and breaks well. Going from the Rami to the 709 and back was a bit of shock because of the long pull on the 709 compared to the Rami, but I like a long pull on a CCW for safety reasons.
2) Recoil and grip: You feel it, the lack of weight shows here but the grip design allows you to maintain control the whole time. The grip is longer than the Rami which only allows me to get two fingers on it below the trigger guard while with the 709 I can get my little finger on it as well. But the Rami's weight reduces felt recoil a bit more.The 709 is light years ahead of the Kel-tel here which beats up my hand and after a mag or two I'm ready to call it a day.
3) Accuracy: Well, 1.5 inches at 21 feet with WWB with a 3 inch barrel probably is good enough for self defense. It surprised me here, doing as well as it did.
4) Sights: No problems here, good clear 3 dot sights which as a plus are adjustable.
5) Reliability: 100% so far with Winchester white box, CCI Blazer and Remmy Golden Sabers. I need to try Corbon next but my supply is getting low and I can't find any.
Well... just got back from the range today after running about 200 rounds through the little 709. The ammo was a mix of Winchester white box, CCI Blazer Alum case and a few Remington Golden sabers 124 +P Hollow points. I am happy to say that I didn't have a single problem at all. No FTF's, FTE;s, or misfires. Best 5 shot group was about 1.5 inches at 21 feet free standing (with the Win white box), but most were closer to 2 to 3 inches, about the same as my CZ Rami did as well.
Points to note
1) Trigger: It's long and smooth all the way and breaks well. Going from the Rami to the 709 and back was a bit of shock because of the long pull on the 709 compared to the Rami, but I like a long pull on a CCW for safety reasons.
2) Recoil and grip: You feel it, the lack of weight shows here but the grip design allows you to maintain control the whole time. The grip is longer than the Rami which only allows me to get two fingers on it below the trigger guard while with the 709 I can get my little finger on it as well. But the Rami's weight reduces felt recoil a bit more.The 709 is light years ahead of the Kel-tel here which beats up my hand and after a mag or two I'm ready to call it a day.
3) Accuracy: Well, 1.5 inches at 21 feet with WWB with a 3 inch barrel probably is good enough for self defense. It surprised me here, doing as well as it did.
4) Sights: No problems here, good clear 3 dot sights which as a plus are adjustable.
5) Reliability: 100% so far with Winchester white box, CCI Blazer and Remmy Golden Sabers. I need to try Corbon next but my supply is getting low and I can't find any.
I will give you a "buy" on the gun for one great reason: when it's working well it's probably the best performing 9mm pistol of it's size being made today. I've shot about 500 rounds through mine and it light strikes some rounds. So today I called Taurus, they called Fed Ex, and within 2 hours they had a fed-ex guy at my door with a box and label - prepaid.
The pistol is really fun to shoot. It feels great in my hand and frankly I love it. So i'm opting to get mine fixed. I know one person who is also experiencing light strikes and Taurus picked up his pistol too.
I think it's worth buying, and if it's not 100 percent, worth fixing. I paid 339.00 for mine. Many folks are putting hundreds of perfect rounds through theirs, and I believe they will echo the great characteristics of this pistol. But it's your money - .
I have another Taurus and it's probably the BEST 9mm I have, and I have a CZ75b. I think their problems are mostly quality control, not design.
The pistol is really fun to shoot. It feels great in my hand and frankly I love it. So i'm opting to get mine fixed. I know one person who is also experiencing light strikes and Taurus picked up his pistol too.
I think it's worth buying, and if it's not 100 percent, worth fixing. I paid 339.00 for mine. Many folks are putting hundreds of perfect rounds through theirs, and I believe they will echo the great characteristics of this pistol. But it's your money - .
I have another Taurus and it's probably the BEST 9mm I have, and I have a CZ75b. I think their problems are mostly quality control, not design.
W L Johnson
Member
When I sold electronics the avg rate for dead in box was around 5%. Some brands worst, some brands better. I don't know what it is now, this was many many moons ago. Pretty much the same thing applies to guns, even tho I couldn't tell you what the percentage is, you are always going to have some DOA (Dead On Arrival). I don't care what brand it is. Taurus get bashed alot here. They are view by many as being a cheap gun.
But what gets me is when someone posts about a problem with a $2,000 gun the response usually is "don't worry they're fix it" . But when it's a $300 gun (ie taurus) the response usually is "see, see, told you they are a POS".
oh well, it's late and I'm going to bed. Good night.
But what gets me is when someone posts about a problem with a $2,000 gun the response usually is "don't worry they're fix it" . But when it's a $300 gun (ie taurus) the response usually is "see, see, told you they are a POS".
oh well, it's late and I'm going to bed. Good night.
Timetraveller
Member
Taurus PT709
The Taurus PT709 is slim and easily concealable. I carry mine on the hip everyday. It's practical. I purchased the stainless steel slide. No malfunctions. It cost me $379. I wish Glock had thought of this concept. The only problem I have is locating a leather holster for this pistol. Point of aim is natural. The sights are adequate. I prefer carrying this over my S&W 642.
The Taurus PT709 is slim and easily concealable. I carry mine on the hip everyday. It's practical. I purchased the stainless steel slide. No malfunctions. It cost me $379. I wish Glock had thought of this concept. The only problem I have is locating a leather holster for this pistol. Point of aim is natural. The sights are adequate. I prefer carrying this over my S&W 642.
weregunner
Member
There is this to consider:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_han ... index.html
http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_han ... index.html
XNavyflyer
Member
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- Nov 24, 2005
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- 58
Does anyone have a size/weight comparison of the 709 and the Walther PPS?
ur gonna find negatives on the taurus 709 and for that matter taurus itself. When a person has issues with a gun what ever brand it is,he seems to post on every forum what POS guns they are. It is going to happen . It is man made,we screw up, machines are not perfect. Looks to me when the fella had an issue with his 709 that within 2 hours fed x was there to pick it up ojn Taurus's dime. Just not sure one should complain about that at all I hav enot seen a 709 or their 380 at all anywhere, but I would have no iseus buying one of the first out, and it it ain't rigt I feel taurus will make it right. Hell look at the lcp, they had to recall every one of them, over 50,000 . ruger took care of the issues and now most all owners swear by them instead at them. This is the internet and one willget allkkinds of feedback on guns, some from non owners even, You just never know what u are reading is fact or fiction. If you think you wlant one, buy it, if it turns out to indeed be a POS then peddle it and buy another gun. Were not married to these guns..
Any gun can have problems,Glock and $2k Les Baer's included.
No line of guns can be "good" 100% of the time,its how the maker responds to issues and how they fix them that makes a gun "good".Some lines of guns have lemons and some have lots of lemons,but all have lemons just the same.
No matter, go try Glock if problems out of the box bother you.By saying that im not over looking the many flaws they have and previously had.But if you gotta have a gun with the best odds of being good Glock is it.
I sold mine tho.
Then id say go look at S&W M&P line and also SA XD line,both on par with Glock.
To me any of those listed just dont do it for me,and i require reliability also.
What made me look elsewhere is every gun is differant and appeals to differant needs,size and features.The line of weapons listed above is good at wearing on a hip and going bang when needed.But forget having small,thin or pocket sized options.Forget about stainless slides or manual safteys.Forget buying one new under $500.And get used to seeing the same gun over and over that just looks like a tool with no personality.
What im saying is there are many lines of guns and many makers,all have people that like or hate them.The reason it is that way is that no one gun fits a persons needs or wants.
Why you think people own more than 1 gun? And not saying because they just like them,its that no one does everything perfectly.
So in saying that sit down and think about a few things like:
What caliber you want/need?
Will it be carried as a ccw constantly or be a bedside HD gun.
What options do you want it to have,like a manual safety or decocker or a SA or DA.
Paper or plastic....eer i mean metal?
Would you be happier if you could get one for $400 or if needed can you spend $800.
BTW buy what you need,not what name is on it.
W L Johnson
Member
If you are looking for something under $600 that is 100% 100% of the time, it doesn't exist. Not under $1,000, not under $5,000, not under $1,000,000. If you don't want a problem, don't buy a gun. Not trying to insult anyone, but there has been, always will be DOA. Even if the DOA rate was as low as 1% (which is pretty darn low) the problem postings will still out number the good postings by something like 100 to 1.
The Glock 26 is under 600 and is about the same height and width as the 709, but it's quite a bit fatter and less comfortable to wear. It's about as close to 100 percent as an automatic can get.
The Walther PPS is another slim sub-compact, but it apparently likes particular brands of ammo, but is pretty much 100 percent with that ammo.
I've seen it for 560 to 660 bucks at local stores.
I would trust my life with my Glock and do often. The problem I had with my 709 is easily fixable in a pinch by simply ejecting the cartridge and continuing firing. Hopefully when it gets back from Taurus, it will be very reliable. Normally, most all 9mm autos are reliable when they are clean and lightly oiled. There are literally tons of pistols under 600.00 which are basically 100 percent, especially after you test various brands of ammo.
The Walther PPS is another slim sub-compact, but it apparently likes particular brands of ammo, but is pretty much 100 percent with that ammo.
I've seen it for 560 to 660 bucks at local stores.
I would trust my life with my Glock and do often. The problem I had with my 709 is easily fixable in a pinch by simply ejecting the cartridge and continuing firing. Hopefully when it gets back from Taurus, it will be very reliable. Normally, most all 9mm autos are reliable when they are clean and lightly oiled. There are literally tons of pistols under 600.00 which are basically 100 percent, especially after you test various brands of ammo.
I think W L Johnson makes a good point. If you're going to have a problem early, find out and get it fixed early. If you get 500 trouble free rounds out of a new weapon, you've got a good one. Then you find out what wears out first in these guns and do prudent parts replacement. I saw a 1911 of some make today for 550 (it was a Colt I think, or Springfield Armory). I'm sure it's reliable, and it was not too large to carry. The best piece of advice I can give you is to get the smallest, best pistol you can find. You'll carry it more often and a gun in the car or at home will get you killed. I'd feel much safer with my problematic 709 than without it.
I just picked up a beautiful, reliable CZ 83 - 380 for less than 450. It will shoot the eyes out of a squirrel at 100 yards. You might want to consider it. It has a 12 round double stack magazine and has an incredible trigger. I had a stovepipe with it (first 200 rounds), but I was rapid firing it with the cheapest Monarch steel case ammo I could find. I'd trust it, it took about a second and a half to fix that problem.
I just picked up a beautiful, reliable CZ 83 - 380 for less than 450. It will shoot the eyes out of a squirrel at 100 yards. You might want to consider it. It has a 12 round double stack magazine and has an incredible trigger. I had a stovepipe with it (first 200 rounds), but I was rapid firing it with the cheapest Monarch steel case ammo I could find. I'd trust it, it took about a second and a half to fix that problem.
W L Johnson
Member
Does CZ make anything else but beautiful guns? They may have been crude in the past but just about everything they make now is about as beautiful as a gun get get. And the price has gone up too, way up
Just so you guys know, I'm the guy that owns the Taurus with the bad extractor and I have no different feeling about Taurus guns than before I shot it.
Crap happens. I got excited and didn't look over the gun thoroughly enough. I'm not sure if Taurus test fired it or not but they missed the problem.
No big deal. I'll send it back and I'm sure they'll get it right, and until then I'll just carry my big honkin' P89 around.
You are going to have some rate of failure with a precision mechanism such as a handgun, and the less you pay, the greater the chance of getting on of the bad ones.
If Taurus had the Quality Control of Glock or Springfield, they wouldn't be nearly as afordable.
Crap happens. I got excited and didn't look over the gun thoroughly enough. I'm not sure if Taurus test fired it or not but they missed the problem.
No big deal. I'll send it back and I'm sure they'll get it right, and until then I'll just carry my big honkin' P89 around.
You are going to have some rate of failure with a precision mechanism such as a handgun, and the less you pay, the greater the chance of getting on of the bad ones.
If Taurus had the Quality Control of Glock or Springfield, they wouldn't be nearly as afordable.
Just purchased the 709 yesterday. I also have the KT-PF9, and have or currently own many small frame CCW type pistols. Fired right at 100 rounds of mixed ammo thru the 709 and the only problem I had was with the 2nd round of CCI shotshells. I know shotshells are unreliable in every semi-auto pistol I've shot them in but I just wanted to see what would happen as I was trying to make the 709 jam. 709 fired five trouble free shotshell rounds after that. I'm not knocking Kahr pistols but I paid about 600+ for one and after 200 rounds gave up on it because of jams. The 709 is definately a 'keeper' for me. My Glock 27 rides with me in the winter but the 709 will probably replace my S&W 60 for summer carry.
W L : as far as I can tell, CZ makes the most beautiful pistols out there now. I never noticed it until I held one of those lovely powder coated black 75b's. It's stunning. I decided upon the stainless 75b, but it's difficult to make a decision when everything is so darned pretty. The 83 is one of the lovliest pistols made. It's thick handle and beautiful nickel plating just makes me want to hold it and admire it. They both shoot beautifully. Once you get used to the shorter sight radius of the 83, it's super accurate. It's heavy, but I like that.
W L Johnson
Member
I felt the same way about a stainless 75b, so I bought it. Right now I am tring to come up with the funds for a 75D PCR, but buying the 709, which is better for CCW, took a bite out of those funds. The 83 is on my wish list. I am looking to get some wood grips for the 75, I love the look of stainless and wood.
Right now I am tring to come up with the funds for a 75D PCR, but buying the 709, which is better for CCW, took a bite out of those funds. The 83 is on my wish list. I am looking to get some wood grips for the 75, I love the look of stainless and wood.
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