Taurus "The Judge" Can it fire +P Ammo in 45 LC?

[RtWngGunut]

Yes that is a sign of flexing to a degree. Actually I was hoping it would blow the cyl. I wanted to see what it would safely shoot, and what would be an acceptable load for it as well. I load 45 LC for several firearms, and I need to know how far I can safely push the envelope for the people who ask me to load for them. So I do my own testing so I know how far I can push it.

And as for the sticking brass, if I had raised the load 2 more grains, it would have been all over for the Judge. But that extra 2 gr would have most likely loosened up all the srews of my Ruger as well. That load would be approaching the lower limits of a 454 Casull .

I read a lot of loading manuals to create my own tests, and all the loading manuals give reduced MAX loads for safty, as well as to cover their butts against Liability. So all I'm trying to say here is, the Judge is a lot better made them most think, and I can Prove it.

 

[Nicodemus38]

what is the true definition of "+p" ammo? its supposed to be max 10% above the standard SAAMI pressure for that cartridge. however real life expectations have changed alot in the last few decades.

45acp +p using a 185 grain bullet is for some reason within the standard SAAMI pressure limits forthe standard 230gr military fmj that browning designed.

255 gr bullet at 1100fps in a saa was the standard velocity for the original 40 gr bp load with 8 inch barrel for the us army. nowadays some people consider itto be +p ammo.

some people consider the 160 grain bullet at 11-1200 fps in a 45 lc as being +p, but its not.

 

[MCgunner]

SAAMI standard for .45 Colt +P is 25,000 CUP....or is it PSI, whatever, there is an SAAMI standard. Google it.

Why would anyone, but a dufus want to use "Ruger Only" loads in the judge, anyway? It's not a hunting handgun, doesn't have the accuracy for that. Buy a Ruger or Freedom Arms or Contender if you want to hunt with the .45 Colt.

 

[joed]

Actually, the .45 Colt is a superior platform for "magnum" power. Its larger usable case capacity allow for .44 Remington Magnum performance at lower pressures or superior performance at higher pressures.

I have to disagree. The .45 Colt case just doesn't have a large rim for one which I consider a weak point. Most of the guns chambered for the old Colt have forcing cone and cylinder throat issues. The case has so much room that it can easily be double or triple charged.

I owned 2 S&W .45 Colt revolvers and eventually sold them off. One that I owned had the forcing cone recut and the throats reamed, it was the most accurate revolver I'd ever shot. But it was an exception. I would definately own another .45 revolver but it will be a .45 acp.

 

[captain awesome]

to repeat the rest,
no, and a disappointing no at that.
They should make a supreme high end version of the judge that can safely shoot 460 s&w.
I would probably own more than one if they did.

 

[JWF III]

They should make a supreme high end version of the judge that can safely shoot 460 s&w.
I would probably own more than one if they did.

Well they do have a new one chambered for .454 Casull. IIRC, they call it the "Raging Judge".

Wyman

 

[nightmare]

Would be Very unwise to attempt Hot .45 in Judge!

 

[Danny331911]

I know that this is an old thread but there are several misstatements that need to be corrected for those researching loads for their new Taurus. That is how I came across it.

1. History of the 45 Long Colt name (45lc).

- The initial name of the 45LC was just the 45 Colt (1872) as in the 45 Colt MD 1873 (Peacemaker). When the Colt MD 1873 was adopted by the US Army it was initially issued with "45 Colt" ammunition. I believe that the load was a 255gr lead with approx. 35-40grs blkpwdr at approx. 900fps. This load was very hot for the black powder era. At about the same time S&W was trying to get in on the US Army contracts and Modified their MD 3 S&W 45 revolver from recommendations made by Major George W. Schofield (S&W MD 1875) to what become known as the Scholfield in S&W 45 also know as 45 Scholfield (230gr bullet with 28grs blkpwdr at approx. 800fps). The Army really liked this revolver but asked S&W to lengthen the Frame and Cylinder to except the 45 Colt ammunition but S&W refused. The Army did buy a number of Schofields but quickly found out about the incapability of ammo. Since the 45 Schofield round could be fired from 1873 Colts the Army adopted the 45 45 S&W (Schofield) with a slightly modified rim to insure compatibility with current inventory 1873 Colts as the 45 Colt Government Cartridge for use in both the S&W MD 1875 Schofield and the Colt MD 1873 Peacemaker. The Army included Colt in the name as the 1873 Colt was still the main issued side arm and to differentiate it from the other '45 Government' also known as the 45-70 (which actually had a load of a 405gr bullet on top of approx. 65grs of blkpwdr).

- It was this short 45 Colt Government round with the load of 28grs blkpwdr and a 230gr lead bullet that the reputation of the 45 Colt as a manstopper was established. It was this load that was the primary revolver round used during the wild west days and the Indian Wars. When people wanted the more powerful load they would just ask for the 45 Long Colt to differentiate between it and the shorter 45 Colt Government/S&W/Scholfield round. In the early 1900s after the Army had adopted the 38cal double action revolvers that the Army brought back the Colt Peacemakers and a few S&W Schofileds that were still in inventory to handle the doped up Morros in the Philippines. So when the Army went looking for a Semi-auto using the now smokeless powered loads guess what the standard was.... 230gr bullet at 800fps. Sound familiar??? That is what the adopted 45acp fired from the 1911 does ('ACP' Automatic Colt Cartridge to differentiate it from the 45 Colt/45 Long Colt).

2. Long bullet jump and shallow riffling in Taurus Judge means bad accuracy.

- Many keep saying this even though they are proven wrong each and every time that has been challenged on the the range. The Judge does break several of these 'rules'. One because it is also a shotgun Taurus has a long bullet jump in 45lc and uses a very shallow rifling to keep the rifling from effecting shot performance. Now the rule is if you have shallow or a poor condition bore you can still get fairly good accuracy by using heavy bullets with a long bearing surface at no more that 900fps.

- To my surprise the Judge just does not follow these two 'rules'. I have a 6.5" Judge and the Hornady Critical Defense 185gr (Very short bearing service for caliber) and although it shoots 10" high, all five rounds consistently touch for a one ragged hole group at 25yrds and is doing so in excess of 1150fps. This in violation of the long bullet jump and shallow riffling rules.

3. That the multipurpose Judge has limited or no use in a Home Defense Situation.

- Again... the Judge just proves anyone saying this wrong. The best 410 round I have found is the Federal 410 2.5" Handgun load using four 000 buck balls per round at around 1000fps out of my Judges 6.5" barrel. They 'do not' spread out to being useless at longer self defense ranges. I've fired about 100rds of these just seeing how far they can be used. They will stay on a paper plate all the way out to 25yrds. Rarely will one stray off the plate at that range. It may be effective farther but I'm suspect that the 000 buck will have shed too much velocity. I'm unwilling to risk my chronograph to find out. Now 'NO ONE' can say that 3-4 000 buck balls traveling in excess of 900fps hitting anyone in a 10" or less area at the same time would be considered ineffective. For multipurpose use Remington LR express #4-5-6 shot on any size snake out to 10' or so and you'll see the MULTI in the purpose. One of the main reasons I wanted a dual use gun.

In conclusion. I bought this Judge as a Home Defense/Pest gun to keep downstairs. But I'm so impressed with the performance that I'm looking for a 45lc load with a 255-300gr bullet at somewhere between 900-1000fps (there's that long bearing surface again). These should be safe in the Judge and rounds whether lead or jacketed HP should perform very well out to about 50yds on nuisance feral pigs that we have in such abundance here in Florida.

 

[Bubbacraig69]

Buffalo bore 45+p in Ultra Light Taurus Judge

I would not advise trying this but a friend of mine had just bought a ultra lite Taurus Judge 2-1/2 chamber 3" barrel and with out reading the box of ammo we fired at least 10 rounds of 45+P Buffalo bore ammo in it. I fired 3 rounds and said I'm Done , the recoil shock wave goes from your hands to you shoulders and stings bad kind of like hitting a concrete poll with a metal baseball bat which sucks . But the gun did not fail and still works great to this day with all sorts of shot shells and reg 45 long colts. It was fun but I will Never do It Again!

 

[Lawdawg45]

As to the .45 Long colt question, didn't this label come about to separate it from the .45 short or Schofield round?

LD

 

[kludge]

Let's put it this way...

"Ruger" loads are DOUBLE the pressure of a standard .45 Colt.

Don't put +P in a Judge.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

My brother fired five of the HSM "Bear Loads," 300 grain JSP, out of his 2½ inch chambered UltraLite Judge before he figured out what he'd done. (Okay, so he's slow.) It didn't damage his Judge, but he won't be doing that again. He said at that the "Ribber" grip didn't cushion anything at that recoil level, something about feeling like someone smacked his hand with rebar.

We had the gun inspected by a gunsmith, and there was no apparent damage. I guess he'll look at the box next time.

ECS

 

[MCgunner]

Is there such a thing as a .45 Colt +P?

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

This calls it "Ruger", but it's on the list SAAMI rated at 25,000 CUP...or PSI....whatever.

Don't know if +P would blow up a Judge, but very much use of it would surely loosen it up prematurely.