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tc shockwave-not good.

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ohihunter2014, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    I shot a big body Ohio buck today at 50yards with a 50cal 120gr magnum 777 and 250gr tc shockwave sabot. double lung shot but the sabot didn't pass through. 50yards and a heavy bullet with 120gr of powder. no blood whatsoever in the snow either or on the deer.

    anyone have a clue what the heck happened here?
     
    lastofthebreed likes this.
  2. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I have rarely had a pass through with a muzzleloader. I've shot both Hornady XTP with sabot and Powerbelt hollow points.

    I've thought about switching to a solid copper bullet and see if that helps.
     
  3. lastofthebreed

    lastofthebreed Member

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    Ohihunter: I have switched from 777 to Black Horn 209 for all my muzzle load hunting. I found that 777 seemed to lose some oomph as the air temp dropped. Since switching, I have not had a shockwave fail to pass through on a broadside shot.
     
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  4. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    i used the last bit of 777 yesterday so i will be switching this summer. i was shocked as I've shot them with 12ga sabots and had pass through. i was also shocked that he didn't bleed at all until he dropped. i swear when we found him i told my buddy that isn't my deer its not got a drop of blood on him. found the hole and it was small the round didn't even mushroom and only blood was 80yards away and 20yards from where he laid. if it hadn't been for the snow we would have never been able to track him.

    do you have issues with that bullet not opening up? my buddy shoots 120gr 777 mag pellets which i used with the tc shockwave and said he gets pass through and blood all over. when he told me that i said geeez just my luck.
     
  5. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Very odd. However if it didn't expand that would explain the minimal wound. It's known that the pointier the projectile the more it allows the flesh to stretch thereby leaving a smaller than caliber wound track.

    Another option would be a projectile with a wide flat meplat. This is what handgun hunters of hogs use (hard cast). It won't create quite the damage a HP will but it will outpenetrate them by a large margin.

    Isn't the Shockwave the same projectile as the Hornady SST?
     
  6. lastofthebreed

    lastofthebreed Member

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    I wish I could help you further. I can't as I have had no issues since switching to Black Horn 209. I suppose it is possible you just got a bad bullet. By the way I use the Harvester black sabots, those things give me cloverleafs at 100 yds. I also pre weigh my powder charge using my reloading scale. If you load by volume, 120 grains (VOLUME!!!) would weigh 84 grains on your scale. In other words 70 grains of BH 209 by weight would fill your volumetric measure to the 100 grain mark.
     
  7. redbone

    redbone Member

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    2 777 pellets, 200 grain shockwave, probably 6 or 8 deer in last few years. Not all passed through, some did. Found em all.
     
  8. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I don't shoot sabots. My experience with them has been pretty poor. I very much prefer a big hunk of soft lead, usually from Buffalo Bullet Co. my experience was similar to yours though. Seems odd, but I tracked the last one by hair. I shot and he stumbled and ran, kept rubbing trees like he was trying to knock off whatever was after him. Same day my neighbor shot a doe and it looked like somebody poked a hole in a paint can. He was using Buffalo, I was using an expensive ballistic tip type sabot. I switched, and have never looked back. I just wish I could stumble across 45 cal minieball type bullets to try out in my TC, so far it's eating PRB really well.

    I do have to ask, why use a sabot when for a couple hundred years soft lead has worked? Unless your looking for a long shot I don't understand the added expense even if they were more reliable.
     
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  9. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    I used to shoot T/C Maxiballs from my sidelock and the deer just fell over within 5-10 yards. I switched to PT Gold 260 gr. bullets in a crushed rib sabot. The accuracy improved out to 125 yds but none of the deer dropped unless they were shot in the neck. Very few of these exited and blood trails were missing or sparse.

    Now I wonder why I ever switched. Next year I'm going back to the Maxiballs. Bigger diameter wound, complete penetration and lots of blood in case they don't 'fall over'.
     
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  10. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    Every deer I've shot with a Shockwave 250 did complete pass through and plenty of blood. Most didn't go far anyway. I use 2 Triple7 pellets with them in my Remington 700ML
     
  11. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    yes its the same bullet. ive had bad luck with sst in the past and didn't know they were the same until yesterday.
     
  12. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Hmmm... I've been considering a barrel/rifle meant for shooting across fields (~200 yds) hoping to get close to my preferred 4" rise/fall for point blank shooting and noted the aerodynamic projectiles from Hornady had high BC values (and reputation) and got me the closest. But if they aren't reliable...
     
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  13. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    Picture 8056.jpg Picture 8057.jpg deer shot with 80grs fff and TC cheapshot 240gr lead HP saboted bullet from a rmc 1x28 flintlock.
     

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  14. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    two pictures of the deer, first picture is the enterance hole and the second picture is of the exit hole. plenty of blood and the deer made about 80 yards. eastbank. Picture 8062.jpg Picture 8065.jpg
     
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  15. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    Hey eastbank, is that real black 3f? If so do you have any trouble with it melting the sabot or leave plastic in the barrel?
     
  16. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    yes, it is real black powder. any time i use any saboted bullets or power belts in my black powder guns i first clean with hot water and then use carberator cleaner, soaking the bore and letting it set for 15-20 minutes and a tight patch to remove and plastic residue. and then lightly oiling the bore. i use also use carberator cleaner to clean my trap gun barrels and choke tubes. works fine and is cheap. eastbank.
     
  17. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    So you do get plastic residue?

    I've contemplated resizing my 285 grn WFN meant for my Ruger Old Army (.456") to use in a sabot (I've wondered if it would fit well enough in a .458" sabot). With its relatively short length for weight (.675") I think it might do well in my 1:48" twist. And that wide meplat (.375") ought to put a real hurtin' on whatever it hits and go clean through.

    http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png
     
  18. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    I wonder if a person could use a fiber wad between the powder and sabot if it would work and if it would prevent any plastic residue?
     
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  19. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    i have not found the plastic to be a great problem, i think if you can get power belts to shoot, they would leave the least amount of plastic residue compared to full saboted bullets. i,m thinking of having a .58 cal flintlock long rifle made with rifleing and twist for the big min-ball .575213. i have a two banded musket with three grove rifleing .58 caplock with a reciever sight that will shoot 3-4" groups at 100yrds 65grs fff with the mini-ball from a good rest. eastbank.
     
  20. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    In post #1, the OP states that the "sabot didn't pass through." I have only shot one deer with a saboted bullet. He was facing me and I slipped it down his carotid artery into the chest and into the abdomen. I did not recover any part of the sabot or bullet; I was focused on dressing him out and dragging him out, not doing a necropsy.

    So my experience with saboted bullets is limited, but I always thought (imagined?) that the plastic sabot would separate from the metal bullet after they left the barrel, much like a cloth patch separates from a round ball. Apparently this is not the case? Do those of you who have a lot of experience taking deer with saboted bullets expect the plastic sabot to remain attached to the bullet all the way through the animal?
     
  21. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    I meant bullet sorry.
     
  22. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    i have found that the sabot seperates from the bullet shortly after leaving the barrel, at least with the TC cheap shot sabots as i have found them about 30 feet from the muzzle when sighting the rifle in. eastbank.
     
  23. TheSquire

    TheSquire Member

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    I thought the whole point of sabot rounds was that the sabot separated form the main projectile soon after leaving the barrel?
     
  24. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    They do separate soon after just as a patch from a ball does.
     
  25. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

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    Was you able to recover the bullet? If so could we see it?
    I know you like the ballistic performance of the SST. And a lot of hunters like the lethality of lead. What about a compromise? I've heard of using cast lead pistol bullets in a sabot. The sabot is easier on the lead and produces more velocity thus producing better ballistics. It won't help much at greater distances due to the lower BC.

    I've used TC maxi hunters with great success. I love lead in ML rifles. It makes a big round hole that really lowers the blood pressure. Looks like holes were cut with a hole punch.
     
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