TC Trapper Pity-Party.

[Ugly Sauce]

Well, the Trapper barrel is toast. Last time I shot it at home, I wiped the bore between shots, and it loaded fine. I took it out and did some "field shooting" with it yesterday, and you cannot get a second shot down the bore, without the wolves closing in and eating you. I thought the darn thing was out of action, but did manage to get the bullet seated after much cussing, coaxing, and persistence. Then I think: "well, at least a paper cartridge ball load will re-load fine. I can shoot six, seven, eight or more of those in a row from my Plains Pistol. WRONG. Once again, thought I had a load stuck halfway down the bore. Got it seated at last, fire it off, cleaned the bore and loaded another 240 grain slug and that was that. That got me back to my "extraction point". That bore is total trash.

On the other hand, it carries and balances like a dream. I really liked using/carrying it. So, one of these days it's going to Hoyt for a smoothbore, out as far as he'll take it, which I'm guessing is around .56", but .58 sure would be nice.

In the mean-time, no big loss, I got the gun for free, I have the long barrel that I got off Ebay that is in nice condition should I wish to hunt with it. The idea behind the short barrel was hiking/exploring/up North in the mountains gun. And I have the .58 tacky-trapper which ain't no laser, but shoots as accurately as the short trashed TC barrel. (I hate the dude that allowed that barrel to rust like that, whoever he or she or it may be) And, I can stuff paper cartridges or patched balls down the .58" barrel all day without wiping, at least it's not "micro-pitted".

Thank you for coming to my pity party, and suffering through this long winded bloviated rage and rant. !!!!

 

[1KPerDay]

Can you try to polish the bore? Is it rust or is it burrs in the rifling?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

If you polished it smooth, and polished out the lands and grooves, yes that would work. The bore is "micro-pitted". It looks like frosting, but it is tiny rust pits. So, I am done. It is/was rust. Someday I will have Hoyt polish it out to .56-.58". I'd actually prefer a smooth bore for a foraging gun. They will shoot accurately out to 50 yards, and of course throw shot much better than a rifle. And, smooth bores don't care how much pixie dust you put behind the ball. Accuracy gets better with my Brown Bess, as the charge gets heavier. I shoot 130 to 140 grains of Swiss in it. Grizz will appreciate that.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Doggone it Ugly, now you've got me thinking about getting my smooth bore off the wall and doing some load development. I did carry it a few times during Quail season a while back and chased some rabbits around as well. Was a good time. I did try a ball a few times but the results were not that impressive. I never did properly work up a decent load.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I have a investarms 54 that Hoyt turned into a 58 smoothie.

Believe it or not it shoots its best groups when shooting round ball with powder then loose ball directly on top of powder then over shot card .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I believe it, smooth bores are individuals and you never know what they will like best. Rifles are too, but I think there's more ways to load a smoothie, than a rifle.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have a investarms 54 that Hoyt turned into a 58 smoothie

Is it a 15/16" barrel, or a one-inch?

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

Is it a 15/16" barrel, or a one-inch?

Its a 15/16ths

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Its a 15/16ths

Cool. Then there is hope. If Hoyt would take this barrel out to .58" smooth, that would be outstanding. I have lots of .58" "stuff".

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

Cool. Then there is hope. If Hoyt would take this barrel out to .58" smooth, that would be outstanding. I have lots of .58" "stuff".

I'm sure he'll send ya back a smoothie to be proud of. That being said he will bore it out to a58 and rifle it as well if that what ya want.

I never wanted a smoothie, then I got one. There are endless loads you can drop in a smoothie. i use mine primarily as a shotgun but do shoot round ball and double round ball loads out of it as well.

Its not a pretty or special gun but its a good gun and I wouldnt sell it!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'm sure he'll send ya back a smoothie to be proud of. That being said he will bore it out to a58 and rifle it as well if that what ya want.

I never wanted a smoothie, then I got one. There are endless loads you can drop in a smoothie. i use mine primarily as a shotgun but do shoot round ball and double round ball loads out of it as well.

Its not a pretty or special gun but its a good gun and I wouldnt sell it!

I have heard that he will bore out bigger in smooth bore, than he will a rifled bore. ? Have you dealt with him lately? Current prices for boring?

The purpose of this short TC barrel, and same with my "Trapper" Zouave, is close range defense against biting and scratching critters, and foraging for small game in a wilderness survival situation.

I have found, with my Brown Bess, that good accuracy is easy to achieve at 50 yards, could still kill a deer every time at 65 yards. Beyond that, a ball from a smooth bore tends to "stray". But that's not bad. That will produce some venison, should the opportunity arise. But mainly, when the lion or tiger or bear gets up close and personal, the gun is not going to miss. I might...but that's not the gun's fault.

Loaded with shot, with the right load development, an unchoked bore will keep right up with a modern, choked gun. Not "as good", but it will do just fine. Bessie has not failed to drop a turkey, one of which I thought was out of range, but I took the shot anyhow...and old Tom (actually Jake) dropped on the spot.

Anyhow, for a short, trekking, exploring/hiking self defense gun, with small game capability I choose the smooth bore for sure. For hunting, then I'll grab the Jeager, or the nice long barrel I have for this gun. Rifle for hunting, smooth bore for fun!

For short range defense, especially against Mr. Grizz, as I've said before, you can't beat a smooth bore as it will take as much pixie dust behind the ball (or two) as you can stand, recoil-wise, and if anything gets even more accurate as velocity goes up. They don't have a "sweet spot" like a rifled bore.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I have heard that he will bore out bigger in smooth bore, than he will a rifled bore. ? Have you dealt with him lately? Current prices for boring?

The purpose of this short TC barrel, and same with my "Trapper" Zouave, is close range defense against biting and scratching critters, and foraging for small game in a wilderness survival situation.

I have found, with my Brown Bess, that good accuracy is easy to achieve at 50 yards, could still kill a deer every time at 65 yards. Beyond that, a ball from a smooth bore tends to "stray". But that's not bad. That will produce some venison, should the opportunity arise. But mainly, when the lion or tiger or bear gets up close and personal, the gun is not going to miss. I might...but that's not the gun's fault.

Loaded with shot, with the right load development, an unchoked bore will keep right up with a modern, choked gun. Not "as good", but it will do just fine. Bessie has not failed to drop a turkey, one of which I thought was out of range, but I took the shot anyhow...and old Tom (actually Jake) dropped on the spot.

Anyhow, for a short, trekking, exploring/hiking self defense gun, with small game capability I choose the smooth bore for sure. For hunting, then I'll grab the Jeager, or the nice long barrel I have for this gun. Rifle for hunting, smooth bore for fun!

For short range defense, especially against Mr. Grizz, as I've said before, you can't beat a smooth bore as it will take as much pixie dust behind the ball (or two) as you can stand, recoil-wise, and if anything gets even more accurate as velocity goes up. They don't have a "sweet spot" like a rifled bore.

Right now he is getting caught up with his back logs.

Should run you around 200 ish maybe less.

Shoot me a pm and I'll give you his number.

 

[woodnbow]

Cool. Then there is hope. If Hoyt would take this barrel out to .58" smooth, that would be outstanding. I have lots of .58" "stuff".

Two thoughts. Could Hoyt jug choke such a barrel? And would that effect the ball performance?

 

[hawg]

I've heard it improves ball performance but I'd be concerned about it maybe losing the patch in the jug.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

From the patterns I get from a un-choked barrel, I don't see how it could make enough difference to make a difference. !!!! As for ball from a smooth bore, I don't see how it could make any difference. If the ball does not spin, or it does not spin the ball, there will be no difference. I certainly would not go to any trouble or expense to do it. For some, it makes a psychological difference, and if that helps, more power to them. !!

 

[hawg]

From the patterns I get from a un-choked barrel, I don't see how it could make enough difference to make a difference. !!!! As for ball from a smooth bore, I don't see how it could make any difference. If the ball does not spin, or it does not spin the ball, there will be no difference. I certainly would not go to any trouble or expense to do it. For some, it makes a psychological difference, and if that helps, more power to them. !!

Well, they've been doing it a long time. if it didn't make a difference they wouldn't do it.

 

[woodnbow]

Well, they've been doing it a long time. if it didn't make a difference they wouldn't do it.

. It’s been a while but I’ve heard of guys getting modified, and modified/full patterns… no personal experience but I’ve always liked the middle chokes like that for ducks and occasionally geese.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

Two thoughts. Could Hoyt jug choke such a barrel? And would that effect the ball performance?

I'm sure he could, that being said I have no experience with chokes.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Well, they've been doing it a long time. if it didn't make a difference they wouldn't do it.

No, just saying, not enough difference to make a difference. On a long barreled gun, for hunting ducks a geese. Sure. Forest grouse, rabbit and Turkeys? Nope. And, I'd argue that it can be done just for the psychological effect. Certainly a reason some people do it..."I'll have my smoothbore jug-choked, and shoot turkeys at 100 yards!!!" Any choke, especially a jug-choke, is only half the job, if you don't do the load development, or shoot the right load, it won't make a difference. !! Plus...people make money doing it. A pretty good reason to do it.

 

[woodnbow]

No, just saying, not enough difference to make a difference. On a long barreled gun, for hunting ducks a geese. Sure. Forest grouse, rabbit and Turkeys? Nope. And, I'd argue that it can be done just for the psychological effect. Certainly a reason some people do it..."I'll have my smoothbore jug-choked, and shoot turkeys at 100 yards!!!" Any choke, especially a jug-choke, is only half the job, if you don't do the load development, or shoot the right load, it won't make a difference. !! Plus...people make money doing it. A pretty good reason to do it.

Dang! A cynic… I took you for a glass half full sorta fella!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

There you go, a glass half full, or half empty...not enough difference to make a difference! I guess I should back-pedal a bit. Of course, with two identical guns, the jug-choked gun will hold a tighter pattern than the cylinder bore, or musket, with identical loads. And for very long shots, as on ducks and geese, or upland bird hunting, the half full glass may or will have a slight advantage over the half empty one. (but it won't make one a better shot)

But I'll say again, for rabbits, squirrels and grouse, a choked gun, or even a tighter pattern, will be of no advantage, and too tight a pattern at close range could result in an empty glass!! Hamburger! Or even a miss.

I have found that you sure don't need a choked gun for turkey. Load development in an open bore/cylinder bore will give you all the range you need.

Now again, if a jug-choke gives one a psychological advantage, and one has plenty of money-bags, and it gains the admiration of one's friends, then one should not hesitate to jug choke a 20" barrel for shooting squirrels, rabbits, and forest grouse!!!

 

[woodnbow]

There you go, a glass half full, or half empty...not enough difference to make a difference! I guess I should back-pedal a bit. Of course, with two identical guns, the jug-choked gun will hold a tighter pattern than the cylinder bore, or musket, with identical loads. And for very long shots, as on ducks and geese, or upland bird hunting, the half full glass may or will have a slight advantage over the half empty one. (but it won't make one a better shot)

But I'll say again, for rabbits, squirrels and grouse, a choked gun, or even a tighter pattern, will be of no advantage, and too tight a pattern at close range could result in an empty glass!! Hamburger! Or even a miss.

I have found that you sure don't need a choked gun for turkey. Load development in an open bore/cylinder bore will give you all the range you need.

Now again, if a jug-choke gives one a psychological advantage, and one has plenty of money-bags, and it gains the admiration of one's friends, then one should not hesitate to jug choke a 20" barrel for shooting squirrels, rabbits, and forest grouse!!!

Huh, I confess, I’m not really a shotgun or smooth bore guy. I’ve always hated pellets in a perfectly good piece of meat. Years ago my son-in-law and I hunted geese and ducks out by the Windsor Reservoir. His friend leased the land around it from the town of Windsor. We had a lot of fun and my grandkids learned to hunt birds out there but that’s about the extent of my shotgun knowledge or interest to be plain. I’ve thought about maybe picking up a smoothie for grins but then I look at the status of my money bags and talk myself out of it again…

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yeah, darn money-bags, mine are always empty. Lots of "assets", antique cars, motorcycles, rental house, and a snowmobile I can't sell, but cash...no. I sure miss the days of having my paycheck handed to me, and I could take whatever I wanted out when I deposited it. Direct deposit...bah! Now me and wife have to "talk about it"...which sucks when said wife spent her life as an accountant.

I used to do a lot of duck hunting, and upland birds, but that kind of hunting has gone away with the increase in population. At one time this area was a flyway. The ducks looked like swarms of mosquitos. !!! Did most of my hunting with grand-dad's double barrel 12 gauge hammer gun, and then a Remington Model 11.

I'd rather shoot most small game with a .22 bullet or .36" ball, due to the pellet thing. Turkey I rarely get any pellets in the good meat, but I wish they would allow small caliber muzzle-loaders on turks. Of course then the manufacture's race would be on, and we'd have small caliber in-lines with laser sights, flashlights, scopes, nuclear priming devices, copper bullets wrapped in plastic, and 4000fps muzzle velocities.

 

[woodnbow]

Yeah, darn money-bags, mine are always empty. Lots of "assets", antique cars, motorcycles, rental house, and a snowmobile I can't sell, but cash...no. I sure miss the days of having my paycheck handed to me, and I could take whatever I wanted out when I deposited it. Direct deposit...bah! Now me and wife have to "talk about it"...which sucks when said wife spent her life as an accountant.

I used to do a lot of duck hunting, and upland birds, but that kind of hunting has gone away with the increase in population. At one time this area was a flyway. The ducks looked like swarms of mosquitos. !!! Did most of my hunting with grand-dad's double barrel 12 gauge hammer gun, and then a Remington Model 11.

I'd rather shoot most small game with a .22 bullet or .36" ball, due to the pellet thing. Turkey I rarely get any pellets in the good meat, but I wish they would allow small caliber muzzle-loaders on turks. Of course then the manufacture's race would be on, and we'd have small caliber in-lines with laser sights, flashlights, scopes, nuclear priming devices, copper bullets wrapped in plastic, and 4000fps muzzle velocities.

So getting back to the .36 pistols… somewhere I have an Uberti Remington Navy and a Colt Navy. You’ve done a bunch of fooling about with the caliber. Any preferences in bullets or ball?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I like the LEE bullet, it shot great for me. I think it weighed 130grains. Now I can't find my mold!! I also have a bunch of bullets the Outlaw kid traded me, one is the Kaido 142 which shoots great and packs a punch. The other two, and perhaps they came from Accurate molds and are listed are a modified design of the original Cold bullet at 139 grains, and a modified version of the Remington bullet at 135 grains. Both have flat points or metplats. In my Remington Navy, or more correctly Remington New Model Army of Navy caliber, I can get a maximum of 24 grains ( a bit more if I want to chance getting one seated too high, which I don't) of 4fg under them. Oh yeah, I also have an "Outlaw Kid" bullet (I call the "KREAL") that is very loosely based on the LEE REAL. It holds a lot of lube and is the most accurate bullet of the bunch, in my revolver. The modified Remington bullet was the least accurate, but it's best suited for paper cartridges as it has nice long reduced diameter base.

Anyhow, the economical route is the LEE bullet, which again, shoots very accurate for me.

Ball is always nice and accurate in my Remington and 1862. I can actually get 30 grains of 4fg under a ball in my Remington!! I bet they are cracking the sound barrier. I kind of prefer bullets just for the added penetration, but in the 1862 the ball will out-penetrate a slug, as I/you/one just can't get enough powder under a slug to get it going fast enough. But the 1862 is my small game gun, so 20 grains under the ball is super accurate, and still has enough punch to leave a mark on Mr. Wolf or Mr. Cougar. Or their wives. Friends. Cousins. I think the '62 will take about 24-25 grains under a ball, just guessing, but that would leave too much of a mark on Mr. Squirrel or Mr. Grouse. Would be fine on Mr. Rabbit. I've never had a Colt Navy, I'm not sure how much they will hold.

Well that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.