Tell me about .45 Colt from a rifle.

[roscoe]

Well, I succumbed to the panic buying of Winchesters this weekend, having been looking at Trappers for a long time. I wanted a .44, but I ended up with a .45.

I was hesitant to buy it because in my mind .45 is really a cowboy action load, and this gun is a camping rifle to fend off any manner of toothed or clawed hairy beasts (well, bear is all I would worry about). But I saw some Buffalo Bore .45 Colt ammo that more or less matches their heavy .44 magnum loads.

Their heaviest .44 magnum +P+ load matches their .454 Casull, yet they have no equivalent .45 load. Is there something about .45 Colt, other than that is is used in cowboy guns, that limits its power?

Is there anything else that I should know about .45 Colt? Is it equivalent to 44 magnum?

edited - .45 folt? man, I wish I could edit the title. Moderators?

Thanks!

 

[rockstar.esq]

Well you reminded me of an article I read a while back expounding on the dimensions of chambers in revolvers. The author contended that the .45 colt's performance accuracy and powder was somewhat hampered by wide tolerences in the chambers and throats. That being said, the author went on to write that the currently produced firearms of reputable manufacture were appreciably better than their ancestors. Now I'd suggest that you look into handloading as I'm sure you can find a great many loads that will work, keeping in mind that some manuals will have seperate data for rifles. If not remember that velocity and attendant energy WILL BE GREATER THAN THAT STATED! Personally I wouldn't compare the performance of a .45LC with a .454 Casul as that's a fight the .45LC won't win!

 

[roscoe]

Personally I wouldn't compare the performance of a .45LC with a .454 Casul as that's a fight the .45LC won't win!

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am trying to understand - but if .44 magnum can be - what is limiting .45 colt?

 

[Dave R]

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am trying to understand - but if .44 magnum can be - what is limiting .45 colt?

I'm not the expert, here, but what I read in Speer No. 13 (reloading manual) is that the .45Colt brass is a lot thinner than .44Mag. It is designed for a much lower pressure. So it can't handle the pressure levels that .44Mag can.

OTOH, I have read about people who handload .45 Colt up to .44mag levels. I'm just not sure its a safe thing to do.

 

[Redlg155]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/904186/posts

but if .44 magnum can be - what is limiting .45 colt?

I would suspect the main reason being that if you market a high pressure loading in a cartridge designed initially for relatively mild pressures along with guns designed for such, someone is bound to stick one in an old style SA revolver, regardless of any manufacturer warning. That can be bad for the company.

A second reason may be cartridge strength. As I understand things, the .454 Casull has a large rifle primer to help contain the pressures as well as a longer casing to prevent crazies from using it in a standard .45 Colt handgun/rifle.

In any event, you will have sufficient energy levels with modern high pressure .45 Colt ammo out of your carbine to handle just about anything in the lower 48. Standard velocity loads won't be much faster out of your carbine than out of a handgun...faster, yes, but not much.

Want more power? You may be able to to have a smith lengthen the chamber in your .45 Colt rifle to accept .454 Casull. Then you could fire both.


Good Shooting
Red

 

[xtarheel]

.45 Colt Brass is not weaker that .44 Mag brass. 100 years ago .45 Colt was loaded in "baloon head cases" which were weak but not in many years.
I load up 300+ grain LBT bullets in Starline Brass to shoot in my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk at over 1,300 FPS. This is a load specificaly for Rugers. This generates more power than a .44mag. Just because a load is safe in a Ruger handgun, don't assume it is safe for any other firearm including a long arm.

A .45 can generate more energy than a .44 at the same pressure level because the expanding gases have more surface area to work against (.429 vs. .452) or over 10% more surface area.

 

[gazpacho]

I guess the manufacturers are looking at a 454 Casull equivilant 45 Colt and are saying, "What's the point?" Anyone who wants 454 Casull ballistics shoots 454 Casull. If they want less, they can load a wide choice of 45 Colt loads into the same firearm. OTOH, I don't know of any lengthened 44 magnum cartridges. (There probably a small number of wildcats, but I haven't heard of any.) You probably could load 45 Colt up to 454 Casull, but you run the risk of customers 1) blowing up their super strong Rugers and Freedom Arms revolvers 2) creating a cartridge that actually produces higher cumbustion pressures higher than the 454 Casull, thus endangering even those firearms.

 

[roscoe]

You may be able to to have a smith lengthen the chamber in your .45 Colt rifle to accept .454 Casull. Then you could fire both.

This is an interesting idea - can it be done on a Winchester 94 and still have it cycle properly?

 

[JMusic]

You can find some pretty hefty loads for your rifle. I have a load for mine that gives me 1450 fps with a 255grn laser cut bullet. Look at the manuals and they will have a seperate chapter for firearms that can handle higher preasures. Get Hornady's 4th edition. They state their hot loads should be fine for the 94.
Jim

 

[roscoe]

Wow - check out the guy that took a Cape Buffalo with .45 Colt Buffalo Bore ammo - out of a pistol. That guy has stones. But I guess that means .45 Colt can handle most anything. His velocity out of the pistol was 1500 fps (325 grain bullet) while out of a rifle their heavy factory load pushed the same slug over 1700fps (according to GunBlast).

http://www.buffalobore.com/hunts/Default.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

 

[Brian Williams]

Here is a good article on 45 colt in a rifle, and a nice rifle
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_Thunderbolt.htm

 

[Redlg155]

This is an interesting idea - can it be done on a Winchester 94 and still have it cycle properly?

I'd contact Winchester, but I wouldn't think it would be a real problem since the 94s in .357 mag can also use .38 special.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[10MMGary]

Here is a good article on 45 colt in a rifle, and a nice rifle
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_Thunderbolt.htm

Thanks for the link, man O man I want one of those.

 

[trueblue1776]

Wow - check out the guy that took a Cape Buffalo with .45 Colt Buffalo Bore ammo - out of a pistol. That guy has stones. But I guess that means .45 Colt can handle most anything. His velocity out of the pistol was 1500 fps (325 grain bullet) while out of a rifle their heavy factory load pushed the same slug over 1700fps (according to GunBlast).

http://www.buffalobore.com/hunts/Default.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

now I GOTTA buy that Puma .454 lever gun....