Tell Me About CZ Handguns

[bani]

My issue is that the behavior is different from any other pistol. I don't want to have to recognize whether or not the slide released on its own so that the muscle memory from repetition will be consistent no matter what I shoot. When the slide releases on its own, my brain has to register that fact and change the trained movements.

That's a good suggestion to contact CZ. Don't know why I haven't thought of that myself.

send it to me and i will be happy to dispose of this unreliable and dangerous firearm for you. together we can make the world a better place.

 

[Orion8472]

bani, . . . with only 2 posts on this forum, . . . you have no right to make that suggestion, sir. Therefore, . . . he should send it to ME and I will make sure that it will never become a harm to another. The world will smile and there will seemingly be more birds in the air.

 

[1SOW]

CZ 75 Custom Shadow with Short Reset Trigger mod, all the action upgrades and adj. rear Competition sight:

 

[CA Raider]

"I guess this was aimed at me, since it showed up under my post daring to say anything "difficult or non-fanboyish" about a CZ. If you don't see anything wrong with standard CZ triggers it's only because you haven't tried a really good trigger."

actually i don't aim comments at people, and I avoid personal arguments. my comments have more to do with my own approach to the weapons. if a gun has an "average" trigger I will accept it as such and shoot to get good results. or to put it another way ... I don't blame the "tool" for my own bad results. with a CZ, anyone should be able to get accurate fire on target. there may be better guns or better triggers out there, but a CZ will cetainly put the bullets where they need to go. hope that explains it better.

CA R

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't blame the "tool" for my own bad results. with a CZ, anyone should be able to get accurate fire on target. there may be better guns or better triggers out there, but a CZ will cetainly put the bullets where they need to go. hope that explains it better.

Can we assume you don't shoot in any of the "combat" gun games, like USPSA or IDPA?

I agree that even a bad trigger in an accurate gun can give good results, but I can tell you that an accurate gun with a GOOD trigger can be shot with good results with less effort OR shoot more rapidly with good results than one with a crappy trigger. If you shoot competitively (USPSA or IDPA), a good trigger will give you better scores. If your shooting is limited to punching paper at the target range, it's less critical.

Witnesses, a very similar design, seem to come from the factory with better triggers than CZs; I don't know about the many new Turkish CZ-pattern guns, but haven't heard a lot of complaints.

I continue to be puzzled by CZ's lack of attention to this trait of their guns. The DA triggers seem to have gotten worse over the past 10-15 years, as has the "camming" of the hammer (a rearward movement before dropping), when fired in SA mode. Shooting 300-400 rounds (or doing a LOT of dry firing) will smooth out the DA trigger, but none of this will make the "camming" of the SA hammer go away. That requires a change to the sear/hammer interface, best done by an experienced gunsmith. The changed geometry of some of the aftermarket hammers and related parts seem to improve it, too. The CZ Custom Shop and Cajun Gun Works are good sources for these parts or services.


That's all stuff that CZ could do, as they build them -- and I suspect many CZ owners (myself included) would be willing to pay for the extra labor or manufacturing steps required, if it was available as an option.

 

[Orion8472]

True Walt. It does seem to take some smithing to get a really good trigger on the CZ. Mine was modified rather extremely. SAO trigger with travel like a top quality 1911. But I had to lose the Firing Pin Block Safety to acheive that level of trigger [and a pull of about 2 1/2 lbs]. Absolutely no camming with that trigger. It is a pistol that will give you the highest probability of great groupings.

Having said that, my brother's P-01 still has a very nice trigger for factory. DA is fine and the SA is good as well. I can get some decent groups with it. Yes, some camming, but still a nice trigger.

 

[Cardboard_killer]

I continue to be puzzled by CZ's lack of attention to this trait of their guns.

Well, they did attempt to address it with the omega trigger, so I don't think that the claim of lack of attention is quite accurate. However, I agree that action on the QC side of the old triggers seems to be wanting by us, the users. It doesn't seem to me, an end user, that the cost of a little more attention to trigger part quality would not be soaked up by us end users instead of paying for a trigger job.

OTOH, other manufacturers (Ruger comes to mind) have had a similar tradition of sub-par triggers out of the box with little blowback from consumers.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Well, they did attempt to address it with the omega trigger, so I don't think that the claim of lack of attention is quite accurate. However, I agree that action on the QC side of the old triggers seems to be wanting by us, the users. It doesn't seem to me, an end user, that the cost of a little more attention to trigger part quality would not be soaked up by us end users instead of paying for a trigger job.

I suspect the introduction of the Omega trigger had a different objective than improving a kludgy stock trigger. (I would argue that the standard trigger has arguably gotten worse, rather than better, despite the use of state-of-the-art CNC production equipment and methods.)

I view the Omega trigger as an attempt to accomodate two different groups of shooters -- those who like either a safety or a decocker -- with a single fire-control mechanism. CZ took a relatively unique approach when they did it, and didn't try to do it all with a single lever. The Omega system, however seems to offer a better production process based on a single design and production method, rather than two, as it is presently done in their factory.

But, who knows: you may be right.

If CZ starts to modify all of their older-models to use the Omega Trigger system or give buyers that option, I'd say you could be RIGHT. (In support of that argument, the Custom Shop now offers a version of the P-01 with the Omega trigger installed.) But, until that happens more widely, I think we'll just have to remain in the dark as to their motives for the development of the Omega system.

OTOH, other manufacturers (Ruger comes to mind) have had a similar tradition of sub-par triggers out of the box with little blowback from consumers.

That's a good point. I've had several centerfire Rugers, and none of them had great triggers. Their new SR guns, however, are more impressive. I have an SR9 (with an aftermarket trigger) that is very nice, and the newer SR9c seems to be almost as good in stock form. And then there's the GLOCK trigger... while some find Glock triggers irritating, they sell a lot of guns. (But they also generate a big demand for aftermarket trigger kits.)

CZ ought to buy Cajun Gun Works and incorporate Schmeky's products into their metal-framed production design... Schmeky would be financially fixed, and CZ would have first-class triggers.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

CZ 75 Custom Shadow with Short Reset Trigger mod, all the action upgrades and adj. rear Competition sight:

Very nice.

 

[CA Raider]

walt - I'm not putting anyone down here. you are correct that I train for a completely different scenario than what you described. i have no problem with competition shooters - and a lot of respect for their high level of skills.

I don't have any problem with CZ triggers. the important thing is that when you pull the trigger on a CZ, the gun goes BANG. that's why the CZ-75B's are used by many, many police agencies around the world.

CA R

 

[el Godfather]

They are good. Period.

The reason I spent a small fortune to get a CZ Automatic. A rare CZ pistol.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't have any problem with CZ triggers. the important thing is that when you pull the trigger on a CZ, the gun goes BANG. that's why the CZ-75B's are used by many, many police agencies around the world.

I really didn't have a problem with your comments, either -- just wanted to note that not everybody is looking for the same thing in a trigger. A bunch of us find mediocre triggers unacceptable. That's one reason I haven't bought a new CZ in a while -- although I may spring for a P-07, one of these days.

(I've also got a SIG P226 X-FIVE SA that I've thought about swapping for a CZ Tactical Sport if the right one ever shows up. I just haven't bonded with that X-Five... which surprised me and everyone I talk with. It's not the gun.)
-----------------

As for CZs being widely used by police units around the world...

I'm a big, long-time CZ fan, but I think that folks take CZ's marketing claims (like "most widely used") to mean something different than they say. Some years back, a group of us on the original CZ Forum, set out to discover just where (and how many) CZs were used around the world. The answer was a few here, a few there, mostly in small police departments in Africa and places in Europe. Almost NO military units used them. The numbers were small, but well dispersed -- which arguably made the claim "widely used" accurate but somewhat misleading.

In the past 7-8 years, CZ seems to be playing catch-up with a lot of sales to military units in Europe and Asia. The total number still seems to be modest -- but growing. I expect the P-07 and P-09 series of guns to make that number grow even faster. That may be why the claim "many, many police departments" might be accurate -- but I'm skeptical.

That said, Beretta has probably sold more M9s to the U.S. Department of Defense alone than CZ has sold 75s and 75bs (or the P07/P09 guns) to police and military units worldwide since the 75 was first introduced. If I remember correctly, Beretta has sold nearly a million M9s to the U.S. since the Vietnam War, including an influx of several hundred thousand more over the past few years...) Berettas are pretty widely-used, too, but in far greater numbers. It's hard to TEST or VERIFY such claims.

None of this is meant to denigrate CZs -- I much prefer the CZ to the Beretta line. And except for the triggers (which can be tuned), I prefer the CZs to the Tanfoglio-pattern guns.

My point? You can't take CZ's marketing statements -- all of which are arguably truthful -- to mean more than they actually say: You've got to read them closely.

 

[dalv]

Geez, what a great read! Been away a couple days (moving 90 yr old Mom) and about to start another day with the Uhaul.

Really appreciate all the great input and envious of all of your pieces.

Will keep reading and learning and stop back when I have more time.

Thanks a bunch

 

[cdb1]

I am a huge fan of CZ. Own an 82, 83, 75 SP-01 Tactical, 512, 550 American and a 720. I am extremely disappointed to learn they are canceling production of the 550 American. Was planning on buying a couple more as funds permitted.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

With regards to th CZ I tend to lean towards the CZ 75 TS. A might fine weapon thats for sure. And accurate.

 

[Big Dave]

I wished they called it the cz tactical sport and dropped the 75 to avoid confusion. It's a different frame. I think the new P-07s have dropped the 75 marking.

 

[Dean1818]

Awesome, reliable, accurate, handguns

But...... Just too thick for IWB CCW

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

Once again, I'm "old school". My idea of the perfect "big" ČZ is one of my vz.82s (in 9x18 Makarov). Vynikající pistole!

 

[Sulaco]

My CZ 75 single action was the most accurate handgun I've ever owned. I never should have sold it. It was boring to shoot it was so predictably accurate.