tell me about the MAS 49/56

[justin22885]

as of late, ive been becoming more and more intrigued with the MAS 49/56 rifles, they are no heavier than any other 308 battle rifle, very accurate, and from what i can tell the 7.5mm versions are very reliable, and ive seen people make their own stock/grip adapters and forearms to somewhat modernize the rifle a bit, and theres plenty of space behind the open top ejection port to have a scope, or my preference, a TRS-25 red dot

so im buying one of these simply because theyre different, rarely seen, and i find them to be rather interesting as there seems to be no other rifle like them.. however i'm interested in 308/7.62x51, and the converted 49/56 rifles seem to be somehow flawed, they seem to have a number of problems leading towards malfunctions..

so what i want to know is why exactly are the 308 models so unreliable in comparison?.. what did they do wrong in the conversions? i hope they didnt simply try to rechamber the barrels.. so what is wrong with the 308 versions, and how can a 308 conversion on one of these be done right?, from what i can gather, the problems are with a 7.5x54mm rifle being tuned for a much lower pressure cartridge being converted to 308 and causing over-gassing problems

if it is in fact a poor conversion job then my interest will be in converting one myself, properly, and with a new barrel

so does anyone have anymore information on these rifles that may help?

 

[shotgunjoel]

From what I understand the 7.62 NATO conversions were simply reamed for the new chamber dimensions and nothing else. I heard someone on here say in one of these discussions that he was able to make a 308 model run fine by using a certain length of AR-15 gas tube in place of the MAS tube, and using a modified A5 shotgun spring in place of the MAS spring. I'm sure that you can find it if you do a search. I have a 7.5 MAS and it's been great. I've only shot it a couple of times, but with the muzzle device that it has it's a sweet shooter for a gun of its size and power.

 

[justin22885]

so then my information was correct, the barrels were simply reamed out leaving the gas system in place for the 7.5mm system now running on a higher pressure cartridge, the old gas system is pushing way too much high pressure gas through and causing the bolt to attempt to open too soon with too much force and its sometimes ripping the rims off the cases.. this sounds so incredibly half-assed

what id like to do is get a new, quality .308 barrel blank, turn it down for the mas 49/56 rifle, and with a smaller gas port hole and/or some gas system adjustments, properly convert the system to run 308 reliably.. the AR-15 tube seems to be smaller than the MAS tube, so that probably did the trick of restricting gas flow a bit.. i've seen where someone modified the rear grenade sight to work as an adjustable gas system so the gas flow could be turned down and this worked as well.. nice to know the issue is that of having a 7.5 tune gas system unmodified trying to run .308 because thats not all that difficult to fix

so i will buy one and convert it to 308 myself the right way and with a new barrel, i may even omit the grenade ladder sights because they are absolutely pointless at this point and id like to chop it down to 16-18 inches barrel length as well to save weight, bring the point of balance more rearward, and with a hotter, shorter cartridge the effect of shortening the barrel wont have as much of an effect

__

im curious, how exactly do the scope mounts work on these? i believe ive seen some attached to the dust cover and others appeared to be mounted on the side of the rifle.. the side mounted option looks like it would hold a better zero, like an AK side rail, id be interested in putting a TRS-25 on one and probably a second mount with a zeroed 4x or 6x scope

 

[Nom de Forum]

According to THR member barnbwt once you buy a MAS49/56 you will become "a hipster who's into cool swag that the mainstream is too dumb to appreciate".

I own a MAS 49/56 that Century converted to .308. I sent it back to Century when it cycling issues during the first 100rds. When it was returned it functioned flawlessly. I have no idea what they did to correct the problem. They may have adjusted the gas pressure or merely polished the chamber.

In my opinion the MAS 49/56 is a better battle rifle than the M1 Garand and M14. The MAS is very simple, rugged, and reliable design. Modifying the MAS gas system to be adjustable and polishing the chamber are probably a good idea. It is my understanding that excess gas pressure and rough chambers are the primary problem with the .308 conversions. Another problem is slam fires caused by using commercial grade primed instead of military grade primed ammunition. At one time replacement titanium firing pins were available to solve that problem. I don't think they are now available. Reducing the firing pin length is also used to prevent slamfires.

 

[shotgunjoel]

so i will buy one and convert it to 308 myself the right way and with a new barrel

I would suggest that you buy one of the Century-converted 308 models for your project. They're cheaper and don't really work; might as well not chop a more expensive and perfectly functioning 7.5 model.

 

[eastbank]

for every 5 done over to .308, one may work, don,t ask me how i know. my 7.5 rifle has a adjustable gas valve and i reload with cci milsurp primmers and have not had any problems at all. the only reason i can see for a conversion to .308 is for cheap brass as the bullet is the same dia.for either. i bought 500 rounds of privi loaded ammo cheap and with the adjustable gas valve i have my cases just exiting from the rifle and they are in ex condition and reload just as easy as the .308 cases fired from my m1a in .308. for me there are not enough advantiges to having a french 7.5 converted to .308. eastbank.

 

[The Alaskan]

Eastbank beat me to it, but it feels like you're going the hard was. Why don't you just reload the original 7.5 for which the gun was originally designed? Besides, I believe you will find it difficult to locate an unconverted MAS rifle. As I recall the story, all of the guns imported into the US from France went through Century, and all of them went through Century's hack job of a caliber conversion. The only MAS rifles in the US that are unconverted came in one's and two's through collectors.

I'll agree that the MAS rifles, in their original configuration, were good guns. They served the French Army well in their colonial wars in the post WWII era. But "better than a Garand or an M1A? ****. LOL.

PS: A little off topic but somewhat related, if anyone is interested in either French Military history in the post WWII era or just good (in this case excellent) military narratives in general, I recommend reading Hell In A Very Small Place by Bernard B. Fall. I couldn't put it down. http://www.amazon.com/Hell-In-Very-Small-Place/dp/030681157X

Or, if you don't mind reading subtitles (or you speak French) Intimate Enemies (L'enemie Intime) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0825248/ which is available to stream on Netflix.

 

[barnbwt]

Century chambers were reamed with corn cobs, hence the troubles. The pressure/duration of 7.5 is so similar to 308 I can't believe the timing would be a real issue.

No safety, IIRC, BTW

TCB

 

[swopjan]

I picked one up a while back in 7.5 French and have had it out to the range once. It's very loud, flings brass about 30 feet ( ) and recoil isn't bad, although the stock is very short so it's a little disconcerting having your face so far forward. Definitely a fun gun that most people wouldn't recognize.

Better than a Garand? I dunno, never shot or really handled a Garand or an M14/M1A much. 3 rounds more than a Garand and clip-loading capability in a pinch but still only half the capacity of the contemporary M14. Would have wreaked havoc in Europe in WWII but it wasn't around by then and neither the MAS or M14 was particularly suited to Vietnam.


I'm a purist, if you're going to mount a red dot (which this gun would definitely be a good choice for. The short stock and eye relief is really my only complaint), then please do get a .308 conversion and make it reliable rather than altering one in the original caliber. I chose to pick up some dies for 7.5 French myself. Extra mags can be found for ~$7 if you do some looking, liberty tree collectors sells them also but for $32 each. 3 clips for $15 though, didn't notice those last time. I'll have to pick up a set and see how they work.

The safety is a little lever in the triggerguard that pulls back to be on safe and pushes forward and up into a notch for fire. Awkward to manipulate from the 'ready' position.

 

[justin22885]

yeah, you guys are right, just buy a 308 version and rebarrel it myself.. thats a good idea.. maybe a 16" .308 barrel, no grenade sight, maybe a side folding stock adapter so i can have a nice little 16" carbine, weight seems like it would be about the same as the FAL, better optics mounting though, and seems to have better accuracy too, costs less too.. so ill start out with one thats already been hacked by century

ive had the M1A rifle and i cant say i liked it, i know there are diehard fans of the M1, but its an unnecessary PITA to strip down and clean, and get a little mud or gunk in them and ive seen them sieze up faster than an AR, one feature i like about the MAS is its very simple to take apart, about as easy as an AK

im curious about some other technical info though, is the ejector a frame mounted ejector like one may find in an AK or FAL, or is a plunger style like the AR and M1 rifles?

and my other question is, does anyone know the length-width of the magazine or magazine well in this rifle?.. im curious if someone could modify cheaper magazines by adding the mag release to it, and maybe even make up some 20-rounders for the MAS

 

[Nom de Forum]

ive had the M1A rifle and i cant say i liked it, i know there are diehard fans of the M1, but its an unnecessary PITA to strip down and clean, and get a little mud or gunk in them and ive seen them sieze up faster than an AR, one feature i like about the MAS is its very simple to take apart, about as easy as an AK

As someone who used to service M1 Garands, M14s, and M21s it is my opinion that the MAS49/56 is a much simpler weapon to maintain and will endure prolonged firing longer than the Garand or M14. These guys who love M1s and M14s rarely have enough experience with MAS 49/56 to understand what makes it a superior battle rifle, that being its incredibly rugged and simple design. The MAS is just as accurate as a M1 or M14 and fires a comparable cartridge. I would really like someone to point out to me just what features the M1 and M14 have that make them a superior battle rifle compared to the 49/56. I suspect in a endurance shoot the MAS will still be firing long after the Garand and 14 call it quits.

im curious about some other technical info though, is the ejector a frame mounted ejector like one may find in an AK or FAL, or is a plunger style like the AR and M1 rifles?

Plunger

and my other question is, does anyone know the length-width of the magazine or magazine well in this rifle?.. im curious if someone could modify cheaper magazines by adding the mag release to it, and maybe even make up some 20-rounders for the MAS

Not only did the French make 20 round magazines for the MAS 49/56, a few years back there was a guy modifying the rifles to use 20 round FAL magazines.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

If you watch the auction sites I think you'll be able to find a .308 version which someone messed with some so it will be pretty cheap to get into.

Please don't take a nice 7.5 and mod it, not many of them around these days.

K-Var used to make a scope mount which went into the rails on the side of the rifle. They are hard to find now, I'm not sure of another mount which is very good aside from the original which is $$$. I may part with a K-Var if you're interested.

 

[justin22885]

yeah, ive read of people welding a catch onto FAL magazines and using them for this rifle.. im kind of wondering with the small amount of space between the trigger guard and the magazine if a receiver mounted mag catch for unmodified FAL magazines could be used?

oh yeah, and another question is how do these rifles treat brass? (assuming its tuned for the cartridge and not tearing rims off)

and i promise i wont modify a 7.5 version if they are that rare, i'll use something century already butchered and has no further collector value

 

[Nom de Forum]

yeah, ive read of people welding a catch onto FAL magazines and using them for this rifle.. im kind of wondering with the small amount of space between the trigger guard and the magazine if a receiver mounted mag catch for unmodified FAL magazines could be used?

oh yeah, and another question is how do these rifles treat brass? (assuming its tuned for the cartridge and not tearing rims off)

and i promise i wont modify a 7.5 version if they are that rare, i'll use something century already butchered and has no further collector value

The modifications I saw were the addition of a frame mounted mag catch for FAL mags. The only downside was the elimination of the bolt hold open on the last shot feature.

The brass coming out of my Century modified to .308 presents no resizing problems.

 

[justin22885]

yeah, i thought maybe there would be an issue with the BHO, as the magazines arent exactly the same, i wish i knew how the original bolt catch in the MAS rifle worked, if its simple enough in design it may be possible to fabricate a replacement to work with FAL mags

and its pretty cool that the brass comes out clean, i was about to pull the trigger on naming the HK/PTR my next go-to rifle but would have REALLY prefered something that would save the brass better for reloads, the MAS seems to be exactly what i'm looking for, after some tweaks of course

barrels are threaded in and headspaced like a FALs im guessing?

 

[shotgunjoel]

As I recall the story, all of the guns imported into the US from France went through Century, and all of them went through Century's hack job of a caliber conversion. The only MAS rifles in the US that are unconverted came in one's and two's through collectors.

That's not quite true. I have a CAI-stamped MAS 49/56 in 7.5 They converted a ton of them, but not all of them.

Justin, if you do end up getting a 308 MAS and pulling it apart, I'd be interested in the stock set if you were selling. The wood on mine was attacked with way too much sandpaper and acrylic clear coat. On top of ugly stain.

 

[shotgunjoel]

Better than a Garand? I dunno, never shot or really handled a Garand or an M14/M1A much. 3 rounds more than a Garand and clip-loading capability in a pinch but still only half the capacity of the contemporary M14. Would have wreaked havoc in Europe in WWII but it wasn't around by then and neither the MAS or M14 was particularly suited to Vietnam.

From my experience with using 1970s era French-made surplus ammo on clips, I don't know how they did it. The stripper clip guide is much higher than the magazine feed lips. The clip can slide far enough down to feed rounds straight into the magazine, but the clip see-saws with the guide as a fulcrum as you try to strip the rounds into the magazine. It isn't so bad for the first couple of rounds, but once the magazine gets 3-4 rounds in it, clips seemed to me to be just about worthless. Anyone else have a better experience?

 

[Nom de Forum]

To fit the FAL mag catch the existing bolt hold open components had to be removed if I recall correctly.

BTW, if your buttstock is a loose fit to the receiver acraglass jell will tighten that right-up to improve accuracy. Worked great on mine.

 

[justin22885]

To fit the FAL mag catch the existing bolt hold open components had to be removed if I recall correctly.

BTW, if your buttstock is a loose fit to the receiver acraglass jell will tighten that right-up to improve accuracy. Worked great on mine.

i can probably make a new mag catch, slightly different from the old to work with FAL mags.. and i will probably fab a new lower to use a folding stock and vertical grip so im not too worried about the wooden stock.. although, i do think a figured hardwood and a proper finsh job would look great on these rifles

 

[Nom de Forum]

From my experience with using 1970s era French-made surplus ammo on clips, I don't know how they did it. The stripper clip guide is much higher than the magazine feed lips. The clip can slide far enough down to feed rounds straight into the magazine, but the clip see-saws with the guide as a fulcrum as you try to strip the rounds into the magazine. It isn't so bad for the first couple of rounds, but once the magazine gets 3-4 rounds in it, clips seemed to me to be just about worthless. Anyone else have a better experience?

It has been at least 10 years since I attempted to use stripper clips in mine but I don't recall having any problems using U.S. made 5 round stripper clips of 7.62x51. Did you strip the rounds from the French clip in a fast and forceful manner?

 

[USAF_Vet]

This is one of those guns I saw and was really interested in a long time ago, and forgot about. Now, I really want to find one in .308 and tinker with it myself.

 

[justin22885]

i found this photo online of a modified MAS 49/56, what do you guys think?

 

[USAF_Vet]

https://youtu.be/cDGlN6mluGA

Original stock for me, thanks.

 

[justin22885]

you know what i think might work?.. i wonder if i could drill and tap the bottom of the MAS 49 receiver to bolt on an AK mag release with a modified lever to operate with FAL mags

 

[Nom de Forum]

i found this photo online of a modified MAS 49/56, what do you guys think?

IMO while it probably is functional it most certainly is fugly.