tell me about the MAS 49/56

[justin22885]

i agree a lower receiver portion could be made to look much nicer than that, but it just highlights the possibilities.. do you like this one better?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The MAS 49/56 was probably one of the best guns at the tail end of the wood and heavy steel forgings era. I would love to have a good .308 conversion.

Wikipedia says the max pressure is 280 MPa (a mere 40kpsi) which is only 2/3 of the 7.63x51mm. Is that believable given 2,600-2,700 ft-lb performance for heavier bullets in 22" barrels? Is that cartridge that efficient? If true, I suspect there are gas issues as well as chamber smoothness issues on the Century guns. However, unless they made a poor choice in recoil spring, I would not consider being over-gassed to be likely make the gun fail to run. Also, the brass is semi-rimmed (.482 at the web and .486" at the rim), so there is significantly less extractor engagement with 7.62x51mm.

It looks like it would be easy to make 7.5x51 Brass form European (.480" base dia) 6.5x55mm brass. I would not even try it with American (.473" base dia) brass with PPU euro-spec brass easily available (whether American is safe or not).

These conversion were done in the "drunk monkey" days that earned Century such a bad reputation (VZ2008s since 2012 or so seem really good).

Mike

 

[justin22885]

hmm, extractor could be an issue as well, but that wouldnt be too hard to deal with, could probably just file down the inside surface of the extractor so it will move the claw more inwards to get a better grip on the 308 rim

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I'm going to take back calling semi-rimmed as the rim is only 0.004" larger than the base (even the 7.62x51 is 0.003" larger).

However, you are still looking at a 0.013" difference in rim diameter.

Mike

 

[justin22885]

I'm going to take back calling semi-rimmed as the rim is only 0.004" larger than the base (even the 7.62x51 is 0.003" larger).

However, you are still looking at a 0.013" difference in rim diameter.

Mike

its not really an issue, extractor can be modified, i modified a spare extractor for my AK-74 to grip the 5.56 rims better as the original 5.45 rims were slightly wider, same principal here should work for the MAS 49/56

 

[VA27]

I have one of the 308's. The CAI conversion was done by cutting an inch off the barrel at the breech, rethreading and rechambering. (The general consensus seems to be that CAI used the reamers too long and some chamberes are rough or too small or both) They cut an inch off the gas tube also. What wasn't required was cutting an inch off the recoil spring, but they did that, too.

I picked up a new recoil spring and found a guy who was making an adjustable gas valve that replaced the original gas cut-off. Now it stacks the brass close at hand rather than launching it into the next zip code.

I've been working the extractor down a little at a time to get a better purchase on the rim of the case. I've had no failures to extract, but I have had the occasional bent rim. The only real problem with mine now is that it will sometimes fail to pick up the last round out of a magazine.

It is a handy-dandy little gun that, even with its warts, I like much better than the M1A SOCOM I had.

 

[justin22885]

it seems way, way less finicky than the M1A.. a little grit, a little mud and they seem to jam right up.. AR-15s look like AKs in reliability when compared to M1As in my opinion.. the FAL seems a lot more expensive for a good one, and not particularly accurate, and the HK though accurate and reliable, eats brass, seems like a properly converted MAS has a leg up on all the three most people go for, and few people give them any attention.. i find that incredibly curious

how does a rifle as accurate and reliable as the HK, as light as the FAL, doesnt chew brass.. how does such a rifle avoid never being mentioned in the same sentence as these other three when first impression is they are better?

 

[Nom de Forum]

it seems way, way less finicky than the M1A.. a little grit, a little mud and they seem to jam right up.. AR-15s look like AKs in reliability when compared to M1As in my opinion.. the FAL seems a lot more expensive for a good one, and not particularly accurate, and the HK though accurate and reliable, eats brass, seems like a properly converted MAS has a leg up on all the three most people go for, and few people give them any attention.. i find that incredibly curious

how does a rifle as accurate and reliable as the HK, as light as the FAL, doesnt chew brass.. how does such a rifle avoid never being mentioned in the same sentence as these other three when first impression is they are better?

Perhaps you have not noticed, but FYI many gun people in the United States have some really bigoted opinions about the French and French Weapons. Surely you have heard the insult "I got a good deal on a French rifle, it has never been fired and only dropped once". In my experience most gun people are very misinformed about the French and French weapons. As I posted earlier, in my opinion, based on shooting and maintaining all three, the MAS 49/56 is a better battle rifle than the Garand and M14.

 

[justin22885]

well, bigotry or not against french weapons, their loss is my gain.. i also like the FAMAS rifle for its absolute brutal simplicity of essentially having only 3 large parts to its entire operation.. but the french have always had pretty top notch scientists and engineers, as have the italians as well.. too bad they're not selling FAMAS parts kits, id buy one of those too

 

[Dan Forrester]

I know my interest has stemmed from Iain McCallum at Frogotten Weapons. He did some mud and sand testing on the MAS 49/56, the M1A and the AR15:

Mud testing: https://www.full30.com/video/9eef6b3a4eb6c8846a4c8dc4b8968bc4

Sand testing: https://www.full30.com/video/6618755f336970e55e6c50c1fe894ff8

Dan

 

[justin22885]

yeah, ive seen those videos.. actually makes the M1A out to be a complete piece of junk of a battle rifle when you see how easily a little sand or dirt will seize it up.. i like open top guns though, they seem to have died out, but i like how much easier it is to clear malfunctions.. thats one of the reason why i like AKs so much better than ARs.. the actions closed to prevent crud from getting in, but if crud gets in the inside of the receiver is open enough to push it out of the way, into the corners and keep functioning, and if theres ever a serious malfunction the dust cover can be removed in half a second to access the chamber.. best of both

 

[tulsamal]

As I recall the story, all of the guns imported into the US from France went through Century, and all of them went through Century's hack job of a caliber conversion. The only MAS rifles in the US that are unconverted came in one's and two's through collectors.

Yeah, definitely not true. "Back in the day" when these were for sale everywhere, I mostly saw 7.5 French models. I bought mine from SOG for something like $299 and it looked like new.

I do like mine a lot. If I had a scope mount that went into the side rails and gave me a generic length of rail on the top for a scope and/or red dot, that would be all it is lacking. The cartridge is super easy to reload. I do use the harder milspec primers just to be on the safe side.

I have a few older rifles on the wall. Racks that hold four top to bottom. If you put the Garand on the bottom, then a semi M14, then the MAS 49/56, then the M1 Carbine... that gives you a good idea on relative size and weight. I've carried my Garand around my property looking for a coyote to whack and it gets heavy. Always makes me think of the guys who carried them all the way across France. The M1 Carbine is practically Ruger 10/22 in size and weight. Super nice to carry but I've never been a big believer in that cartridge. Which leaves the MAS... it really is a great size. That two piece stock is ugly... the square boxy receiver is ugly... the trigger is no match AR-15 trigger for sure... but it does work and hits with nearly the same authority as 7.62 NATO.

Just wish it was easy to add and remove a red dot since my old eyes can't make use of iron sights anymore!

Gregg

 

[kBob]

interesting that it took 30 responses before anyone noticed you don't just run a reamer for a 7.62x51 into a 7.5x54 (notice that the NATO round has a sholder 3 mm back and has a smaller diameter base and case) and call it all jake.

I have no experience with a .308 MAS anything other than having physically picked up and rapidly put down a chrome plated converted MAS36 many moons ago.

I did shoot MAS 49/56 in 1975 with a French Army unit ( Infantry) that we were also letting shoot M-16A1s.

Many of the French troopers carried a black smudged snot rag in their pocket and when I asked what it was for was told that they used them to wipe the crud out of the action to keep them shooting. I then saw some doing that. Several French troopers claimed that stoppages caused by the direct impingment system , (like on the AR series) were not uncommon. They said such stoppages were more common in cold wet weather....as was my experience with the m-16A1.

I saw several stoppages with MAS49/56 on a nice clean range in nice weather to back up these claims.

Years later when the 44s and 49s and 49/56 became available in the US my experience with those MAS49/56 French rifles and talks with other French soldiers about them in other places and times caused me to pass up even guns in 7.5x54 in very good condition with accessories including the issue scope and mount. at very reasonable prices.

The OP asked us to tell him about our experiences and I have.

-kBob

 

[swopjan]

Perhaps you have not noticed, but FYI many gun people in the United States have some really bigoted opinions about the French and French Weapons. Surely you have heard the insult "I got a good deal on a French rifle, it has never been fired and only dropped once". In my experience most gun people are very misinformed about the French and French weapons. As I posted earlier, in my opinion, based on shooting and maintaining all three, the MAS 49/56 is a better battle rifle than the Garand and M14.

That, and French guns are straight-up ugly. Here's a picture of my Berthier carbine. It just seems to have too many lumps!

 

[eastbank]

while the french were useing the bolt action(with smokeless powder to boot),we were still useing a single shot. eastbank.

 

[Nom de Forum]

That, and French guns are straight-up ugly. Here's a picture of my Berthier carbine. It just seems to have too many lumps!

Those aren't lumps, they are beauty marks just like Cindy Crawford's mole!

 

[Grunt]

I got one of the Century .308 conversions but I was well aware of the rough chamber issues they had before I got one so I was merciless in my inspections of the one I bought. I was rewarded with a sound 100% reliable rifle. However, it really doesn't see all that much use. The trigger is like a heavy sponge (inferior to the notorious heavy trigger of the HK91) and that is a WIDE front sight post! The accuracy is OK but nothing really to write home about. Then again, that's surplus ammo I run through it and not match grade like I can with my M1A. The firing pin in the MAS can double as a tent stake! It's fine on hard military primers but you're just begging for a slam fire if you try to use it with softer civilian primers like that used in match grade ammo. I think of it as an SKS on steroids and that's probably not far off in regards to an accurate description. Nice to play with but not something I would want to have as my one and only battle rifle. I have FALs, HK91s, M1As and a couple AR-10s that would see service as a serious rifle long before the MAS would.

 

[barnbwt]

If you seek to modernize the MAS, have a good look at the updates being made to the VZ58 up in Canada to assure its continued availability there;

CZ958 Review

However the MAS dust cover attaches (I assume it slides on like an SKS cover), I strongly recommend finding a way to retain it with two pins like the new railed VZ top cover; that's basically the only way to ensure mounted sights will hold their positions. I wouldn't worry too much about the loss of stripper-ability, even though I know you like them --they really aren't that great in the MAS (or VZ for that matter) from everything I've read.

The modified AR lower as a grip housing (and trigger group replacement?) is very intriguing, and basically makes this gun hang with any AR available, so far as the things typical owners actually have cause to care about (particularly if the trigger group is replaced with an AR's). I will say the tube forearm looks bad; no Bueno for a boxy receiver; I'd just use some extruded aluminum tube and ape the CZ805 forearm as far out as you care to (just keep it thin and perforated)

TCB

 

[justin22885]

^^ so, instead of using a solid side rail mount for the VZ58 that holds a perfect zero, now you have a dust cover rail that has to be removed first in order to field strip the rifle, giving an optics platform that isnt solid, may not hold zero, reduces the time it takes you to field strip, while closing up the chamber making it more difficult to clear a jam... but hey, it adds a full length top rail so you can add a scope (which you could easy add to a VZ58 prior with more solid mounts).. and this is an upgrade?.. this is bringing a VZ58 to the 21st century?.. maybe canadians should just stick to lumberjacking because i see way more downsides to that idea than positives

peoples obession for a full length top rail seems to go far beyond rational at this point when youre willing to make a gun worse in multiple aspects, just to add one

 

[Dean1818]

Is there a cleaning rod that has an attached white flag

Buying a milsurp rifle that has been rebored seems risky

How good was the smith that did it?

How available are parts?


I think you should still look at the PTR

Good luck

 

[justin22885]

i dont care how bad the rechambering job is, since my first goal will be to rebarrel it anyway to something higher quality, properly bored, properly gasses, shorter, etc

besides, isnt the 7.5x54mm cartridge a .310-.311 bore, or somewhere around there?.. id rather have a true .308 barrel if im going to have a 308 rifleds

from what i read, the MAS 49/56 barrel is 23mm at the receiver, the AR-10 barrel is 1" at the receiver, if theres enough meat on the MAS receiver, wouldnt it be cheaper and easier to rethread the MAS receiver to take an AR-10 barrel?..since the AR-10s are already direct impinged it would just be a matter of cutting and shaping a gas tube to fit the AR-10 barrel on the MAS receiver.. makes future barrel swaps a lot easier too, beats the costs of having a custom contoured barrel made up.. what do you guys think about that idea?

 

[CornCod]

I believe there was an importer in NJ that brought some in 20 years ago in 7.5mm.

 

[dvdcrr]

Holy cow they went from that to the famas? Talk about a change! Looks like the magazine could not possibly be farther out in front of the trigger gaurd if you tried!
Edit I take it back I just saw a Ljungman.

 

[justin22885]

i really like the simplicity of the FAMAS, wish we could get some parts kits here

 

[barnbwt]

Keep dreaming, those guns are being thrown to the shredder by the frogs. Not that it matters, since the guns are clapped out beyond all recognition, so a parts kit likely wouldn't be complete anyway

BTW, side rails are bulky and don't look very fashionable. I have an M76; the side mount is a definite con over a smaller mount atop the gun (but the AK is not very accomodating).

TCB