Tell Me About the Walther P22

[Shade00]

I haven't had a problem with my P22 yet, but these issues have me thinking about trading it in. I love the cheap ammo, but I can't afford to replace a cracked slide.

I have really enjoyed mine, with no problems about 500 rounds in - it's so lightweight and I don't really have a problem with the trigger like some people.

 

[kamagong]

I fired a magazine through a P22 once. That gun had the single worst trigger I've ever felt--long and spongy.

 

[evan price]

6000 rounds through my P22 without a problem. I only shoot cheap Wal*Mart Federal bulk in it. Holds 3" at 25 feet if I do my part.

Well worth the $220 it cost me.
It's always in my range bag.
The frame cracking problems are caused by two issues:
1. The fake compensator on 5" models. The slide batters and peens on the thing and it causes cracks, because of:
2. Worn recoil springs, which is made worse by the tendancy to use hi-velocity ammo like Stingers or Velocitors exclusively, which a lot of people did trying to solve the FTF or FTE problems from the bad mags the early models had. There is no buffer on the P22 so it lets the slide do whatever it wants under recoil. This is why 3.4" models crack too.

As long as you get the right mags (Which there is a -B update now), keep the barrel nut tight, use normal ammo, change the recoil spring when it gets worn, and don't use the stupid fake compensator you won't have as many problems as you hear about.


The -A update mags are better however there are -A mags with a long stagger slot and a short stagger slot- the -A short slot mags are not much better than the early pre-A mags. You need the long stagger slot -A or -B mags. The -A mags had the better follower and the longer mag catch insert.
I like mine and I would buy another one.

 

[woad_yurt]

My friend bought one and it's a finicky feeder. It jammed quite a bit, enough to be exquisitely annoying at the range a few times. Now, it sits at his house, unused.

 

[blacksmithsc]

I got one about a month ago. I read up on them on rimfire central. It seems like folks either love them or hate them. It also seems like the folks that hate them have the older models. To date I've only shot CCI mini mags through mine and it shoots flawlessly. It's a lot easier to disassemble and reassemble than a Ruger, which I have as well.

 

[Pilot]

Weight... do you think a .22lr would reliably cycle a steel slide and still have enough velocity to be accurate? To make a steel slide that would be light enough to cycle would be pretty costly I think.

CZ got around that with the .22 Kadet Kit by making only a cutout of the slide cycle in recoil. Its steel, but its small so it works. Ingenious design.

I'd get a Ruger MK II or III or a 22/45 and have a .22 built to last a few lifetimes.

 

[rklessdriver]

I bought my lady a P22 to help her get more trigger time on a conventional DA/SA pistol without dealing with the recoil and cost of her 9mm Sig P6 all the time.

I will say it served it's purpose. It was a decent little training tool. We put about 2500-3000 rounds through it in 1.5yrs. I always cleaned it after every range trip (spotless). It liked Federal bulk pack ammo and CCI ammo. That was it. Hated to feed Winchester bulk and Remington "golden bullets" bulk pack caused the saftey to come on (drop down) after every 2 rounds, infact so did most all hyper velocity stuff and I didn't want the slide to break so those were out. Ours was really finiky about its ammo. Caused us alot of heartache for about 2 months because everyone around here was out of Federal bulk pack .22lr's and we bought a brick of everything else in existance trying to find something it would shoot. Sucked having almost 2000 rounds of ammo we couldn't shoot.

Last month at a show she saw a beautiful 2 tone Ruger MKII and "hinted" at how much she liked it. That was all the reason I needed to go home get the P-22 and put a sign on it. Sold it in about 15mins with full disclosure to the buyer about what ammo it liked and did not like. Bought her that MKII and already it has digest all the ammo we had left over without a problem (other than a few dud Remingtons). The best $250.00 I have ever spent on a gun, a bit less than the P-22 cost us. I personally think your money a head trying to find a new or used Ruger or Browning but thats up to you. IMO the P-22 is a great concept that was poorly and as cheaply executed as possible by Walther.

I'm not saying don't buy a P-22. Ours was great with CCI or Federal but that was it and just looking at it you could tell this pistol was not going to last a few generations like some Ruger's already have (my friend has a MKI that her father gave her in college and now her 22yr old daughter has it), as the slide was made of zinc and the sights were plastic just in the short time we owned ours the slide was getting battered a little from the slide stop... If you buy a P-22 and it works good, be happy, take care of it and use it for what it is.
Will

 

[whichfinger]

OP, you'd be wise to ignore the posts from those who haven't owned or shot one. You know what they say about opinions.

Mine runs beautifully on Remington Golden bullets, but hates Federal round nose.

Mine too. RGBs are the recommended round on the RFC Walther forum. It took me a while to get around to using them because I was convinced I had to break it in with Mini Mags. RGBs are the only bulk ammo that will run flawlessly in mine, but that's OK, the key is they're bulk and they're a lot cheaper than CCIs. I was surprised to read another poster's won't run RGBs at all whereas Federals do fine, which simply illustrates they are ammo-fussy, and you have to help yours figure out which ones work. Not that big a deal and once you find out, you're set. DO NOT use Remington Thunderbolts - they'll turn your barrel into a leaded smoothbore after only a few mags.

The folks at Smith & Wesson/Walther monitor the RFC forum, and they've made many changes to the gun based on what users are saying. The new ones are much improved. I have two with the 3.4" barrel (the long version barrel is 5", and has no advantage over the short version other than a slightly longer sight radius - ugly too, IMO), bought late last year, one for me and one for SWMBO. Mine has ~1500-2000 rounds through it and I've been keeping a close eye out for cracks. No sign of any problem yet, but if one shows up I'll just send it to S&W & they'll replace it. Free.

You can make a tin can dance all day at 10 yards (or until there's more holes than can). The can will last a lot longer at 25 yards. It's not a target grade pistol, nor is it meant to be. It's simply a fun little plinker. If you must have a target grade .22, pay the extra bucks and buy a Ruger.

 

[Conqueror]

Avoid the P22. For an extra $50 you can have a Ruger or a Browning Buckmark, both of which are far higher-quality guns and which you almost never hear of breaking.

 

[wristtwister]

Lots of fun

I've got one of the little buggers, and it's a load of fun to shoot. Problem I have with mine is that the slide sticks... a lot. A lot of my shots are after I "whip the gun forward" to make the slide lock back in place. It also fails to chamber rounds sometimes, so as for a "carry gun", I would recommend something else... but as a range gun, they're loads of fun.

They're extremely accurate as a shooter when they're working, but I've done a bit of "smoothing" the rail slides and start off with a shot of oil on the slide before range visits. The rails seem to get nicked up during disassembly (the zinc being a bit softer than steel) so until I "evened" the rails up, they were getting shaped ^^^^^_______^^^_______ with nicks on the slide rails. A diamond file (small and flat) and a honing stone, and I have them reasonably back in a ___________________ situation (only a few bumps, etc.).

Mine was bought new, and I have no one to blame for dinging it up but myself, but a little harder slide material would solve a lot of that problem. I would even consider an aftermarket slide of steel or stainless steel.

If anybody at Walther is listening, they should produce a steel model of this gun. It's got a good design and it shoots great except for having to stop and either clean it or remake the slide rails work. As a bit heavier gun, it would probably be more accurate to shoot as well. The current version is easy to roll in your hand as you squeeze the grip, so you have some "art" to learning how to actually handle the piece as well.

I'm happy with it as it is, but I can see that an improved model of this gun would completely grab the market. Every weekend, I have people commenting about my shooting, and it's usually when I'm shooting the P22. Accurate small caliber shooting is more deadly than "maybe so" big caliber shooting... and at about 15 yards, I'd rather put 10 .22's into the center of my target than one or two of the larger calibers.

I like my .40 cal, my 9mm, my Makarov, my .357 and my .380's, and I'm accurate with them... but for plinking and just burning ammo... that P-22 is a shooter... and it's cheap to use.

WT

 

[HisSoldier]

Quote:
Weight... do you think a .22lr would reliably cycle a steel slide and still have enough velocity to be accurate? To make a steel slide that would be light enough to cycle would be pretty costly I think.

CZ got around that with the .22 Kadet Kit by making only a cutout of the slide cycle in recoil. Its steel, but its small so it works. Ingenious design.

I'd get a Ruger MK II or III or a 22/45 and have a .22 built to last a few lifetimes.
__________________

I can't understand this line of thought, a steel slide would do everything that the heavier weighted zinc slide does plus it would last for hundreds of years! There is no weight reason to make any part of a handgun out of zinc! The only reason is consumer fraud, ie, cheap guns for high prices.

 

[greener]

Zinc, main component of zamak; Atomic number 30
Atomic mass 65.37 g.mol -1

Iron, main component of steel;Atomic Number: 26
Atomic Mass: 55.845 amu

So you can see that steel is significantly lighter than zinc. Steel is the preferred material for all handgun parts other than the grips, in my opinion. The only reason zinc is chosen is because it is way cheaper to make and American consumers are more impressed by looks than by function or reliability or durability. What I was going to say would have hurt some feelings.

The density of iron is 7.87 g/cc and the density of zinc is 7.13 g/cc, so the steel (iron) slide would be heavier. Zinc is softer and more easily cut.

The P22 is a fun pistol. It can be made reliable with some internal parts polishing and some loctite to keep it together and functioning reliably for a long time. The ejector has a tendency to throw the round back into your face. As a light, short-barreled pistol, it is a bit harder to shoot accurately than other pistols.

I have a P22 and enjoy shooting it. It is definitely a notch below my Rugers, Buck Mark and 22A in accuracy and reliability.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Originally posted by wristtwister:
If anybody at Walther is listening, they should produce a steel model of this gun.

As much as I have against the P22 in its current "pot metal" incarnation, if Walther made the P22 slide out of steel and made the triggers a little smoother, I'd get two of them. I really like the way they look (which is why I bought one in the first place), but the MIM zinc alloy slide really put me off (which is why I dumped the damn thing) and getting rid of it would go a long way towards making it appealing to those of us who don't like "pot metal" in the construction of our firearms. Considering that an "all steel" slide would weigh about 10.25% more than one of Zinc, I'd be willing to bet that with a little judicious redesign the wieght could be trimmed from an "all steel" slide and reliable functioning would be retained.

Are you listening Walther/Umarex/Smith & Wesson ?

 

[TG13]

they should make the slide out of an MIM aluminum alloy.. in fact, it wouldn't hurt to make all of the pistol's metal parts from aluminum alloy, except the springs..

and it needs a redesign on the hammer spring..

i want one, but until there are changes made to it, i will not buy it..

the one thing i can say is, S&W will repair it for free (minus shipping) in most cases.. they are prompt about it..

 

[wristtwister]

Range Report

I just got back from the range with mine. It ran a 550 box of Remingtons without failing once... just a continuation of the slide problem I mentioned before. The problem is that you can't hone those machined surfaces too much or they will get "sloppy", which causes other problems. They really don't like "dirty" ammo, and start sticking after 50 or so rounds... but once you get used to slinging the slide shut, its really a fun gun to shoot.

From looking at my targets, you might not want me shooting at you with one of them either. They're accurate up to about 30 yards, and if you're running stingers in it, they tend to hang up just a bit and have to get a little help to eject them when cycling.

I would like to see a teflon coating on the barrel feed throat to help feeding the ammo into the chamber. The stock throat is reasonably slick, but almost any kind of smallbore ammo is going to hang up if there's any kind of a nick or rough surface on the feed throat. Rimfire ammo can go into some peculiar positions when racked as well... like vertical or 45 degrees, but I've only had those kinds of problems with "hot" ammo in this gun.

I was zeroing in one of my .40 cal Smith's and my new Beretta 92, but after a hundred in each of those... out comes the P22 for "extended service". It's just cheap to shoot the P22 compared to the 9mm and .40cal, and I'm actually in the process of seeing which .380 to get rid of because they're so expensive to shoot regularly. I can get 550 rounds of .22lr for $13... the .380 ammo is $16.50 for 50 rounds... so unless I stock up at the gun show, the P22 will continue to be one of the "fallback" practice guns in my bag.

WT

 

[USMCDK]

Well HoosierQ if I may do so I would like to post a like that actually talks about the Walther P22.

I has a lot of info and I guess it could be considered my post.

*WARNING*

The following posts are solely the opinions of the individual posters and not that of myself, except for the post that were posted by me USMCDK.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=339495

 

[whichfinger]

I just got back from the range with mine. It ran a 550 box of Remingtons without failing once... just a continuation of the slide problem I mentioned before.

The trigger bar ears are the reason the frame rails are getting chewed up. This is the best reference for anyone with a P22: http://www.freespeech.com/1917-1911M_P22_bible.pdf. One of the things it shows you how to do is smooth those ears so they don't gouge the rails.

 

[HisSoldier]

Well guys, if you want to compare strength to weight ratios steel makes zinc look like what it is, garbage. Make the slide with enough sectional density to equal the strength of the zinc slide and it would weigh a fraction of what a zinc slide does and do it without the fatigue problems zinc has. The sides of the slide in steel to equal the strength of the zinc slide, well, it would be paper thin in steel to do the same job.

 

[wristtwister]

The P22 "Bible"

Whichfinger,
that's a jam-up little manual. Thanks for the reference. I'll get my dremel out and start polishing as soon as possible. If the fixes are that simple (in most cases) it is staggering that Walther doesn't simply spend the money to produce a better quality product rather than trying to save money and giving you a "dog-eared" problem right out of the box. A couple of bucks spent in the manufacturing process would probably help both their product and their reputation.

If I haven't learned anything else in 45 years of engineering in corporations, it's that "group think" is dangerous... and letting accountants, who know nothing of the product, only the money, make the manufacturing decisions. Every dollar spent on a quality product is well spent... every dollar saved that affects the longevity or decreases the quality of a product is money wasted... and in this case, it's clear that they are "penny wise and pound foolish".

Zinc vs. steel
"dog eared" parts
"sticky" chamber throats

Those are simple to fix during the manufacturing process while the parts are still all apart... rather than expecting your customer to take the gun apart and fix them or end up buying replacement parts. Maybe Smith & Wesson's influence will help that in some way. I certainly hope so. The P22 is a nice little gun, and fun to shoot... but I have "real guns" that cost about the same and don't have these kinds of problems.

It makes you wonder what they could have been thinking...

WT

 

[HisSoldier]

I did a little research and was a bit surprised to find that some zamak alloys have about half the tensile strength of heat treated 4140, which is way more than I'd have thought. The weight for a cubic foot of iron is 485 lbs, and zinc comes in at 440, not a big difference. But it's apples and oranges. Steel has almost infinite (comparably) fatigue strength. Zinc has built in lubricity if that's important. My personal disgust with die cast zinc products goes back probably over 40 years, you find parts that are literally falling apart with "zinc pest", a form of intergranular corrosion I think. Though I was surprised at what strength Zamak has it is still far from being what I'd consider to be an acceptable engineering choice for handguns.

 

[whichfinger]

... it is staggering that Walther doesn't simply spend the money to produce a better quality product ....

Visit the Walther forum at Rimfire Central and thank 1917-1911M - he wrote the book on the P22.

FWIW, S&W does monitor that forum, and has made some changes in the manufacturing process.

 

[Extremist]

Went and shot my P22 for the first time in a while today, about 100 rounds.

Funny, mine HATED Remington Golden Bullets, they wouldn't extract

Loved Federal Bulk Pack (Stuff I've had for years and plenty in my supply)

Loved just about everything else, ESPECIALLY the Aguila SSS round.

Love mine, had some problems when I first got it, but have had many flawless range outings with it since then. It's not the tack drivers my SW22A or SW Model 41 are, but it's still easy to keep 5 shots on a 2 Inch circle at 21 feet off hand fairly rapid fire.

It's especially fun with my TROS MD-22 suppressor

BTW, it's the 3.5" barrel version with the laser (which is worthless in bright sunlight )

I have two NIB Carbon Frame versions coming Monday to add to my collection:

- Original black frame low S/N
- OD Green Frame
- Desert Camo Frame
- 2xCarbon Fiber Frame

They are so much fun to shoot

James