Tony_the_tiger
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2011
- Messages
- 905
I got pulled over tonight while traveling in Florida and I wanted to share the story with you. Thoughts and comments on the appropriate behavior of my party and the officers, as well as on the legality of the situation are welcome. Please excuse my confusion of past and present tense in the following account.
First things first, I was going over the speed limit outside of city limits. That was mistake #1. I was going about 60 in a 45 in an area where you can see the road turn to 65 about a block down the road. Two sheriff vehicles were hidden in the woods and I slowed it down a bit, but anticipated a stop. Sure enough, one of the sheriff vehicles got on the road and followed me for about half a minute before turning the lights on. I slowly pulled over to the side of the road.
Here is where my experience differs from routine traffic stops. I am accustomed to law officers advising the driver to stay in the vehicle. However, the officer used his loudspeaker to ask me to exit the vehicle and approach him. I was not sure I heard him correctly and slowly opened the door. I said "you want me to exit the vehicle?" and he said "sir, step out of the vehicle and approach my driver side door". I exited the vehicle and approach the officer. I smiled and asked the officer "how are you tonight?". The officer said "Sir, please sit on the hood of my car". I said "Ok" and sat on the hood of his car. The officer said "Why were you going fast?". I started to answer. The officer cut me off and said "stand up and look at me when you are talking to me, and keep your hands on the hood of the vehicle". I stood up and put my hands on the vehicle and looked at him and said "I suppose I anticipated the speed change and was just heading home, I realize I was going too fast". The officer then looked me up and down and said "are you armed?"...
I decided honesty was best in this case and said "Yes, sir". He said "where?". I said "in my right pocket". He said "what is it?" I said "a J frame". The officer said "are there any other weapons on you?" I replied "a knife... just a pocket knife". The officer said "are there any other weapons in the vehicle?" I replied "Yes, sir, my wife is likely carrying". The officer said "don't make any sudden movements, I'm calling in backup. Wait for my partner to arrive with your hands on the vehicle and then I'm going to disarm you". I said "is that necessary, sir?" He said "Yes, for my own safety". I said "Ok, although I did not legally have to disclose, I respect your position". The officer says, "are you permit holders?" I reply "yes, I can show you". The officer nods and says "If I saw you had a gun and you did not tell me, I would have pulled my gun on you".
We waited for the partner. A second patrol vehicle arrives. The officer walked behind me and took my S&W out of my pocket. His partner came and took my knife. They unloaded the weapon and put the bullets in the holster and the gun on the hood. The officer then says "Whats your wifes name?" I tell him. He says "I'm going to go disarm her". I say "I would prefer if you did not try to disarm my wife, she is just a passenger". The officer says "I have to watch out for our safety and I need to be in control of all weapons". I reply "shes not going to like that". The officer approached my vehicle and leaves me with his partner. His partner and I have some small talk. I mention how uncomfortable a duty belt is in a vehicle and he agrees. The partner is much more laid back than the first officer. I tell the partner that legally I have no duty to disclose and that I don't think its necessary for them to disarm us. The partner replies "if you don't want our weapons drawn on you, you'll let us disarm you" and adds "there's no quicker way for this to turn bad than to not notify about a weapon or to have a gun and not be cooperative".
The first officer comes up to my vehicle and he is sweating hard, obviously nervous. He knocks on the car window. My wife and infant son are inside. My wife lowers the window. "Ms. Tiger, maam, I am going to disarm you". My wife replies "I think you'll need a warrant for that". The officer replies "No, not when it involves our safety. I need to be in control of all weapons". My wife replies "Do you want to see my permit?". The officer insists on taking the weapon, looking twitchy. My wife hands him her purse slowly and he takes the weapon. He asks her to stay in the car. The officer returns to his vehicle and unloads her weapon and puts the bullets in the holster. I sit tight and the officers are fondling the unloaded guns. I ask "do you like that, its interesting". The officer replies "I have no preference sir, I prefer semi-autos". His partner asks what caliber the weapons are and I reply. The first officer asks again if I am armed, I reply "no". The officer advises me to "slowly, remove your wallet and hand me your identification". No request for registration or insurance. I give him my ccw permit and license. The officer makes a phone call and reports the serial numbers of my guns or the number of my permit and/or drivers license (or something along those lines while holding the firearm and my identification).
While we are waiting the partner seems interested in more small talk and asks about the guns and how we like the holsters. I talk a little bit with him about it and try to lighten the mood. The first officer gets off the phone and says "I'm going to put these in your passenger side seat. Don't load them until we are out of sight". I say "where do we go from here?". The officer says "this is a $244 dollar citation and 4 points on your license. But because you were cooperative I'm not going to issue one tonight. Slow it down". The officers advise me to return to the vehicle. The officers get the last word in and tell me again "although there may not be a law that you have to tell us, we would have had you on the ground and weapons out if we found you had a gun and had lied to us".
I return to the vehicle. My wife is highly annoyed. We sit and chat for a minute and wait for the officers to leave, reload the weapons and continue on our way.
Discussion
Ok, now that I have described the event, here are a few thoughts:
1)Was this felony protocol? Their weapons were not drawn, but I find it highly irregular to be asked to exit the vehicle and to place my hands on their hood for speeding. I'm not a felon and do not even have a traffic record.
2) Although in Florida there is no duty to disclose, I did so without the expectation of being disarmed. If I could do it again, having thought about it, I would likely still disclose, however I would not have disclosed any information about the passengers of my vehicle, namely my wife. I felt really uncomfortable being disarmed. I felt I made a mistake by disclosing information about passengers and firearms.
3)I find it highly irregular that they would then go on to disarm the passenger on a routine speeding stop. My wife felt threatened by the twitchy officer and when he pursued the issue on the basis of officer safety, after she protested and stated he would need a warrant, she decided to cooperate.
4)Although in Florida had I resisted disarmament or had my wife resisted disarmament, legally I feel we would have been justified. However, the officers threatened to pull their weapons on me and did not seem to know much about the law. Furthermore, legal battles happen after the fact... with an infant in the car we had no interest in anything other than getting back on the road, rather than taking a stand for the 4th amendment with two twitchy officers.
5)The officers threatened to pull their weapons on me 3 times, what gives? They seemed really nervous.
6)Although I'm glad I didn't get a ticket, I do feel like I have been violated. I do not appreciate being disarmed for no reason on a traffic stop, and again felt they were out of line disarming a passenger with a baby.
I would appreciate your perspectives on the situation, my behavior, the officers behavior, and any insight into the legality of firearms during traffic stops in Florida.
Best,
Triple+T
First things first, I was going over the speed limit outside of city limits. That was mistake #1. I was going about 60 in a 45 in an area where you can see the road turn to 65 about a block down the road. Two sheriff vehicles were hidden in the woods and I slowed it down a bit, but anticipated a stop. Sure enough, one of the sheriff vehicles got on the road and followed me for about half a minute before turning the lights on. I slowly pulled over to the side of the road.
Here is where my experience differs from routine traffic stops. I am accustomed to law officers advising the driver to stay in the vehicle. However, the officer used his loudspeaker to ask me to exit the vehicle and approach him. I was not sure I heard him correctly and slowly opened the door. I said "you want me to exit the vehicle?" and he said "sir, step out of the vehicle and approach my driver side door". I exited the vehicle and approach the officer. I smiled and asked the officer "how are you tonight?". The officer said "Sir, please sit on the hood of my car". I said "Ok" and sat on the hood of his car. The officer said "Why were you going fast?". I started to answer. The officer cut me off and said "stand up and look at me when you are talking to me, and keep your hands on the hood of the vehicle". I stood up and put my hands on the vehicle and looked at him and said "I suppose I anticipated the speed change and was just heading home, I realize I was going too fast". The officer then looked me up and down and said "are you armed?"...
I decided honesty was best in this case and said "Yes, sir". He said "where?". I said "in my right pocket". He said "what is it?" I said "a J frame". The officer said "are there any other weapons on you?" I replied "a knife... just a pocket knife". The officer said "are there any other weapons in the vehicle?" I replied "Yes, sir, my wife is likely carrying". The officer said "don't make any sudden movements, I'm calling in backup. Wait for my partner to arrive with your hands on the vehicle and then I'm going to disarm you". I said "is that necessary, sir?" He said "Yes, for my own safety". I said "Ok, although I did not legally have to disclose, I respect your position". The officer says, "are you permit holders?" I reply "yes, I can show you". The officer nods and says "If I saw you had a gun and you did not tell me, I would have pulled my gun on you".
We waited for the partner. A second patrol vehicle arrives. The officer walked behind me and took my S&W out of my pocket. His partner came and took my knife. They unloaded the weapon and put the bullets in the holster and the gun on the hood. The officer then says "Whats your wifes name?" I tell him. He says "I'm going to go disarm her". I say "I would prefer if you did not try to disarm my wife, she is just a passenger". The officer says "I have to watch out for our safety and I need to be in control of all weapons". I reply "shes not going to like that". The officer approached my vehicle and leaves me with his partner. His partner and I have some small talk. I mention how uncomfortable a duty belt is in a vehicle and he agrees. The partner is much more laid back than the first officer. I tell the partner that legally I have no duty to disclose and that I don't think its necessary for them to disarm us. The partner replies "if you don't want our weapons drawn on you, you'll let us disarm you" and adds "there's no quicker way for this to turn bad than to not notify about a weapon or to have a gun and not be cooperative".
The first officer comes up to my vehicle and he is sweating hard, obviously nervous. He knocks on the car window. My wife and infant son are inside. My wife lowers the window. "Ms. Tiger, maam, I am going to disarm you". My wife replies "I think you'll need a warrant for that". The officer replies "No, not when it involves our safety. I need to be in control of all weapons". My wife replies "Do you want to see my permit?". The officer insists on taking the weapon, looking twitchy. My wife hands him her purse slowly and he takes the weapon. He asks her to stay in the car. The officer returns to his vehicle and unloads her weapon and puts the bullets in the holster. I sit tight and the officers are fondling the unloaded guns. I ask "do you like that, its interesting". The officer replies "I have no preference sir, I prefer semi-autos". His partner asks what caliber the weapons are and I reply. The first officer asks again if I am armed, I reply "no". The officer advises me to "slowly, remove your wallet and hand me your identification". No request for registration or insurance. I give him my ccw permit and license. The officer makes a phone call and reports the serial numbers of my guns or the number of my permit and/or drivers license (or something along those lines while holding the firearm and my identification).
While we are waiting the partner seems interested in more small talk and asks about the guns and how we like the holsters. I talk a little bit with him about it and try to lighten the mood. The first officer gets off the phone and says "I'm going to put these in your passenger side seat. Don't load them until we are out of sight". I say "where do we go from here?". The officer says "this is a $244 dollar citation and 4 points on your license. But because you were cooperative I'm not going to issue one tonight. Slow it down". The officers advise me to return to the vehicle. The officers get the last word in and tell me again "although there may not be a law that you have to tell us, we would have had you on the ground and weapons out if we found you had a gun and had lied to us".
I return to the vehicle. My wife is highly annoyed. We sit and chat for a minute and wait for the officers to leave, reload the weapons and continue on our way.
Discussion
Ok, now that I have described the event, here are a few thoughts:
1)Was this felony protocol? Their weapons were not drawn, but I find it highly irregular to be asked to exit the vehicle and to place my hands on their hood for speeding. I'm not a felon and do not even have a traffic record.
2) Although in Florida there is no duty to disclose, I did so without the expectation of being disarmed. If I could do it again, having thought about it, I would likely still disclose, however I would not have disclosed any information about the passengers of my vehicle, namely my wife. I felt really uncomfortable being disarmed. I felt I made a mistake by disclosing information about passengers and firearms.
3)I find it highly irregular that they would then go on to disarm the passenger on a routine speeding stop. My wife felt threatened by the twitchy officer and when he pursued the issue on the basis of officer safety, after she protested and stated he would need a warrant, she decided to cooperate.
4)Although in Florida had I resisted disarmament or had my wife resisted disarmament, legally I feel we would have been justified. However, the officers threatened to pull their weapons on me and did not seem to know much about the law. Furthermore, legal battles happen after the fact... with an infant in the car we had no interest in anything other than getting back on the road, rather than taking a stand for the 4th amendment with two twitchy officers.
5)The officers threatened to pull their weapons on me 3 times, what gives? They seemed really nervous.
6)Although I'm glad I didn't get a ticket, I do feel like I have been violated. I do not appreciate being disarmed for no reason on a traffic stop, and again felt they were out of line disarming a passenger with a baby.
I would appreciate your perspectives on the situation, my behavior, the officers behavior, and any insight into the legality of firearms during traffic stops in Florida.
Best,
Triple+T
Last edited:
(I figured honesty was best too.)
