Terrorist gunshop video

[Gord]

I suppose. If it's going to be used for sniping, why not leave it full-length? - and if it's to be used in a car, I suppose it's better than nothing...

The sight of all those cans, though - makes me a little peeved that I have to pay a $200 tax to protect my hearing.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

A. Although this is propaganda, none of us can speak Arabic ( in all likelihood) so why does it matter?

B. It is also proof that gun control doesn't work.

C. Are you so weak a mind that video of some yutzes in Iraq talking about their shortened up AK and their suppressed rifles will make you join up with the Iraqi insurgency?

Look, I think we should leave, so don't get me wrong, I'll put it right up front. But this couple of guys didn't convince me. It was instead our casualty figures combined with the faulty premises behind going into this war, plus the fact that we can't win it without killing everyone in the country.

So, think whatever you want about what this video in terms of what it says about the capabilities of the Iraqi Insurgents. But, don't act like this video is some sort of evil propaganda. The Arabs in Iraq and the surrounding countries don't need a video to convince them to join up. Us being in their land is reason enough. Oh, and as for this convincing an American to join up with them, as I said, you would have to be very weak minded to want to join up with them. So, chill out.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

A. Although this is propaganda, none of us can speak Arabic ( in all likelihood) so why does it matter?

There's got to be somebody on this board that speaks decent Arabic. I just caught random useless words like "thanee" (secondly, and then), "talqa" (ammo), "mowjood" (there is), etc. My lugh' al-Arabi is pretty bad these days.


I thought the video was pretty dang cool.

My main issue: why can't a proper US factory market an AK bullpup? These guys did it maku mushkila (no problem). The freakin' Iranians have even got an M-16 bullpup that they're testing, but none of our vaunted gunsmiths can get one to work? Gorgeous women, catchy tunes, number-one chow, and bullpup rifles; if they could ditch the theocracy and get a decent Constitution, I'm there.

I'm also quite jealous at the availability of suppressors. I'm strongly considering paying $200 just for the paperwork to buy a $40 glorified car muffler.

I does appear that the final, climactic, "look at all our suppressors" scene was spliced in from a different video. I'm not totally convinced that there is a workshop in Ramadi turning out suppressors by the hundred, though I'm totally willing to listen to evidence otherwise.

I'll give the cinemetography a 6, assuming they were going for the "Blair Witch" indie look. Soundtrack gets a 3, because I know there are better tunes than that available in Iraq. Gunsmithing gets an 8 for concept, 3 for realization.

All in all, worth watching.

I feel a slight tugging to slaughter infidels after watching it though. Must be that insidious propaganda taking effect. I went to my closet and stared at my digital cammies, fingered a knife, stared at the cammies some more. Good thing there are no mirrors in my house...

-MV

 

[zinj]

I was just thinking, if it is really a propoganda video then all those rows of suppressors could be just paper towel roll tubes painted black with hardware on the end or something. It seems a bit wierd for them to keep a bunch of valuable equipment for some glamour shots when they "should" be mounting them on their weapons as fast as they can produce the things.

 

[Gabe]

Are you guys kidding me? What does this have to do with gun control? We're at war, we don't want the enemy to have weapons. What am I missing here?

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Are you guys kidding me? What does this have to do with gun control? We're at war, we don't want the enemy to have weapons. What am I missing here?

Lots of interesting things about this.

1) It goes to show that gun bans aren't having much effect in Iraq (draw your own conclusions from there)

2) Everyone here always goes on about militias, citizen armies, resistance, etc. Why would we not want to learn more about the subject from folks who are actually doing it? You don't have to agree with them to learn important lessons about insurgency.

3) It's not so much about "not wanting the enemy to have weapons", as much as not wanting them to exist anymore.

If all the guns in Iraq disappeared, would it become a magical happy place overnight? Consider the issue carefully, lest we contradict our own arguments about America.

-MV

 

[cracked butt]

Wow that was an awesome sniper rifle with the bipod clamped on to the barrel. The shooter was like getting 5" groups at 30 yards. The video was proof that Bubba lives in Iraq too.

 

[Gabe]

Of course we want to kill them. We also want to deny them the weapons and tools to wage war. That is a constant in all wars. It's no different than bombing Nazi tank factories and Japanese shipyards, or the Israelis going after the bombmakers. I don't understand why people are making a Second Amendment issue out of this.

 

[Third_Rail]

Gabe - it's not a 2nd Amendment issue at all - it's that you can not, under any conditions, stop determined people from making firearms. Ever.

This goes to show that not only are they doing a-ok with an entire army in the area, but they're also able to modify them and turn out suppressors without issue.


Now, taking into account that there is basically the whole might of the American army there, what do you think people here in the USA are capable of?

 

[wacki]

Are you guys kidding me? What does this have to do with gun control? We're at war, we don't want the enemy to have weapons. What am I missing here?

There is a war in America too. It's called a war on drugs. We should deny criminals in America weapons as well.

I think Third_Rail hit the nail on the head.

 

[wacki]

there is basically the whole might of the American army there

Are you sure about this? I don't think this is correct. OPLAN 1003-98 called for 500,000 troops for the invasion stabilization of Iraq. Last I heard we invaded with ~300,000 troops and reduced the policing size to a mere ~100,000 troops. The vast majority of US Generals did not like this at all. Why did we use such a minimal force? His name is Rumsfeld.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Who cares about the Iraqis.


What is important are the lessons of this war. At least in one area, this is proof positive that those so-called pro-gun people who don't believe the 2nd Amendment is useful in battling a tyrannical government are wrong.


Every single bubba with access to a machine shop will be churning out D.I.A.S., arrestors, suppressors, tungsten bullets, burst cams, triggers and other goodies if this country were to ever fall under tyranny and violence were to break out.


These Iraqis are crude. Look at that crappy bipod and it is attached to the barrel! Yet, people here whine about groups. For target shooting OK, but when people complain endlessly about rifle accuracy when talking about a "SHTF rifle" they ought to see this video. MOA is nonsense. MOJBT is the goal.


The average gun owner that gets into rifles probably has superior accuracy, superior triggers, superior optics, and superior ammo than these guys. Look at that awful AK trigger mod to turn it into short rifle for sniping from a car! I bet they wished they had a G2.


Can anyone imagine what a menacing force the American citizen would be if they were actually pressed to the point where it was time to fight?


The Iraqis are taking on the US MILITARY! Is there a more frightening thing to do on this Earth? I don't think so. I don't think it is fair when people call them cowards, when the Americans did the same thing to the Redcoats. They might be the scum of the Earth, but cowards they are not. These tactics of hiding and sniping and ambushing is just the reality of war. People get all angry and disgusted at reprisal attacks and killings. What do you think happened during the War for Independence?


This is why we must fight to keep and restore our RKBA. It truly is a deterrent against potentially tyranny.


It isn't some big mystery when the anti-gunners have systematically sought to ban the most effective arms first, and move down the line.


What did they take first? Automatics, suppressors, short barrels....then they got AP, then they went after military-style semi-automatics and magazine capacity. They're after 50bmg's now.


Why don't the gun grabbers come out first with a ban on 10/22's? There's more of them than most other firearms!!! They aren't stupid.


When they propose bans on any ammunition that can defeat Kevlar, there's a real reason for that. It isn't some strange anti-gun obsession, it is a direct move to try and limit the effectiveness We the People have in keeping these thugs in check. They are trying to pass laws that makes the world safer for them when they do things the populace doesn't agree with.


The desire to own a machine gun is an American value. The desire to own armor piercing ammo and a suppressor is an American value. There is nothing more American than wanting to maintain a balance of power in terms of force projection with the government. It is what our nation is all about, a government subservient to the people. Not the other way around. Talk is cheap, which is why the people need the means to keep it that way.

 

[mrwiggins]

i want those supressors!

man, i wish i had one. aside from that, terrorist suck

 

[Low-Sci]

TMM - "what is so bad about a supressed firearm? not giong to hurt you any more than a non-supressed."

Just as a matter of clarification, and independent of the reasons that Correia posted (thanks, by the way,) I wasn't really saying that suppressed was any worse than normal. I was only including the information as a matter of course, to put a date to the Insurgents using suppressors and other weapon modifications that are atypical. The point I was attempting to make - and for my clumsiness failed at - was that the video, along with the information presented in the video(ie, insurgents are using scopes and suppressors) is old news. We already know about this and have for some time.

 

[Third_Rail]

Don't Tread On Me - well said!

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Here, here Don't Tread on Me.

Let me say, admiration of the tactics and determination of the Iraqi insurgents does not equal hatred of the US or her soldiers. I love the US, and I want our soldiers on our southern border defending us from the invasion.

It is immoral to attack a country that doesn't attack you. It is even worse to do so when your own country is being attacked by a force you ignore, and which can be easily stopped.

As for the lessons here, they are obvious and have already been stated.

a.) How many guns are there in the U.S.?

b.) How many people have a mill drill and a lathe?

c.) How many arms dealers would be more than happy to get American money for extra goodies?

This is what one of the poorest countries in the planet does with minimal rescources, and a dash of "bubba-ism."

What would US citizens do if we were ever invaded by a military force, or if our country's government decided that it was going to get really tyranical?

I hope for the sake of the jbts that they never find out. In fact, maybe after this war, and the proof shown of what happens when you push a determined and proud people to their limit, maybe the jbts will take up knitting.

 

[doubleg]

I like the Saving Private Ryan music in the background.

 

[DC3-CVN-72]

Post #27 and #41

Mordechaniliewicz, let me say that I admire none of their tactics. they are terrorists. nobody said this video would make someone up and join al quida. Sounds like you are the one who needs to chill out. The fact that it is not effective is not the point, it's still propaganda. I don't think that a propaganda video belongs on this or any other american website. It gives them exposhure in the UNITED STATES. This or any other video can be used by the anti-war movement in this contry to undermine the moral of our troops in harms way. As far as attacking Iraq illegaly, we should have attacked 12 yrs. ago. Iraq ignored EVERY U. N. security concle resolution that brought about a CEISE-FIRE! There was never an end of war document even drafted. The persion Gulf war never ended. This is the same war. The only thing that prolonged it was 8 yrs. of slick Willy. I was there in '91 for Opperation Desest Storm, and again in '93 for Operation Southern Watch. I do admire the fact that you come out and say you are against the war, and you have every rite to be. Being against the war dose not mean you don't love your country or support our troops in harms way, as long as you don't in word or action give aid and comfort to the enemy. In Burbank IL. There is a Persion Gulf war memoreal sponsered by my V.F.W post # 177 that reads Persion Gulf War 17 JAN 1991 - **** There is no end date on that stone because this war has not yet ended.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I don't think that a propaganda video belongs on this or any other american web site.

That just gets back to the whole "hiding our heads in the sand" mentality.

Either:

a) This film is truth, and it's good to know about
b) This film is lies, and it's good for us to recognize lies and debunk them

Oh, and since when is THR an "American website"? I don't recall that being part of the User Agreement. Unless I'm mistaken, THR is for everybody.

-MV

 

[DC3-CVN-72]

Post #44

MathewVanias, Did you read my whole post? The most important part of it says that propaganda videos can be used by the anti-war movement in this country to undermine the moral of our troops in harms way. I don't understand how not putting a terrorist propaganda viedo on this or any other web site is " Hiding our heads in the sand " . And this quote realy is a gem. " Oh, and sence when is THR an " American Website" I don't recall that being part of the user agreement. Unless I'm mistaken, THR is for everybody". Don't put words in my mouth. I used the term " American website " because THR is located in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! The term was not used to exclude anybody and you know it. I have conducted myself properly and politely in this thread, so don't try to pick a fight with me because I will not partisapate in it. Let me guess, you'er against the war.

 

[Burt Blade]

Wars are not won by weapons, they are won by warriors. Granted, having the best tools available makes the warrior's job easier, but the gut-level determination to _win_, never to quit, is what makes _victory_ possible. First one to quit loses. Last one not to quit wins. It can often be that simple. That is why one needs to focus on taking the fight out of the opponent.

A 7.62N round to the head will do that nicely. So will leaving an opponent an irresistibly attractive way to regroup to the rear. To use the latter method requires an intimate understanding of the foe, and a willingness to use methods not found in a Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks.

How will we explain to our warriors that once again, we are letting the enemy win via method 2?

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

often forgotten

"what is so bad about a supressed firearm? not going to hurt you any more than a non-supressed."

Principles of suppression include air buffers that reduce velocity of projectile to sub-sonic levels, below the speed of sound. Likewise reduced loads may be used to augment or for the same purpose. These weapons of reduced sonic signature are, in fact, somewhat less powerful than big bang counterparts (long distance rifles). Not necessarily what they are using, but answering to question above early in postings.
'Battlefield Suppressors' are as much for reducing sound tracing, the determination of distance and direction, as anything else. By lessening sonic "boom" (bullet breaking sound barrier) the signature is thus reduced.

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