Texas Open Carry Petition - Texans please sign!

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What is the advantage of open carry? Seems to me that someone could snatch it right from the holster and run just like a pocket book. Worst yet, use it on you! Isn't concealed carry better. Keep the bad guy guessing. The element of surprise is always an advantage.
 
What is the advantage of open carry? Seems to me that someone could snatch it right from the holster and run just like a pocket book. Worst yet, use it on you! Isn't concealed carry better. Keep the bad guy guessing. The element of surprise is always an advantage.
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The "use it on you" argument is a favorite of the Brady Bunch and Ann Landers and other hand-wringing pacifists. What's to stop a thug from taking your concealed handgun from you when you first brandish it--or are reaching for it as you struggle with your attacker--and blowing your guts out with it?

Why aren't cops routinely chasing bad guys down the street who just snatched their gun?

Why would I want a would-be attacker to wonder, "Hmmm, does he have a gun or doesn't he?" when if I were carrying openly he'd wonder, "Damn, fool! Did I smoke one too many rocks to even be THINKIN' I'm gonna try and yoke that dude that's carrying a 44 Magnum? Lemme go find some sheep pacifist and yoke THEM!"

And finally, surprise in a defensive situation is rarely an advantage. Why wait until your attacked to try and "surprise" your attacker? I worked undercover narcotics for more than enough years to have learned THAT lesson many times over.

Jeff
 
The advantages and disadvantages of open carry vs. concealed carry are irrelevant. It's simply a question of freedom to do what you should be able to do. In other words, I've signed the petition even though I will continue to carry concealed. It's about rights and freedoms, not self defense strategy.
 
freddd states
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The advantages and disadvantages of open carry vs. concealed carry are irrelevant. It's simply a question of freedom to do what you should be able to do. In other words, I've signed the petition even though I will continue to carry concealed. It's about rights and freedoms, not self defense strategy.

Excellent point. Thank you.

Just so TexasSkyhawk knows, I have already signed the petition this morning. I'm in favor of open carry, but like freddd I will still carry concealed. Just wanted to hear a little feed back. Thanks for yours.
TexasSkyhawk states: "I worked undercover narcotics for more than enough years to have learned THAT lesson many times over."
TPAW states: I too have worked in LE. Twenty years on the street, from uniformed patrol up to narcotics, OCCB and homicide. I respect your opinion, but can't say I agree with all of it.
 
Concerns about the risks associated with open carry are easily dismissed when you look at the facts on how open carry has worked in states where it has never been illegal or stigmatized. (Much like the worries that people express whenever we try to get restaurant carry passed here in AZ. If it's such a bad idea why hasn't it caused more trouble for our neighbors in Colorado?)
 
What is the advantage of open carry? Seems to me that someone could snatch it right from the holster and run just like a pocket book. Worst yet, use it on you! Isn't concealed carry better. Keep the bad guy guessing. The element of surprise is always an advantage.

TPAW states: I too have worked in LE. Twenty years on the street, from uniformed patrol up to narcotics, OCCB and homicide. I respect your opinion, but can't say I agree with all of it.
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Lemme get this straight. . .

You worked the streets and you wrote the above statements (snatch it right from your holster . . . worse yet, use it on you . . . element of surprise is always better)?

Okay. . .

I was just a federal puke, but it did give me opportunity to work with many local mid and large-size city police departments and metro units all across the country. Can't say your observations would be in the majority with any of the departments we worked with--especially the "snatch it right from your holster" comment.

So I too will respect your opinion, but will have to agree to disagree.

No big deal. That's why Texas is such a big state. :)

Jeff
 
TexasSkyhawk states:

I was just a federal puke, but it did give me opportunity to work with many local mid and large-size city police departments and metro units all across the country. Can't say your observations would be in the majority with any of the departments we worked with--especially the "snatch it right from your holster" comment.
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Not looking for a boxing match, just stating my experience as a LEO with probably the largest police department in the world. Yes, "snatch it right from your holster". Aside from non LE, I have investigated weapons taken from LEO's holsters and used not only on them, but on others during crimes that were committed at a later time. It does not happen often, but is a potential threat. It is JMO that it is safer for non LEO's and LEO's when off duty, to conceal carry. What ever rocks you socks. Actually, when I was a rookie cop, I did both. Had my service weapon holstered like Jesse James, and my off duty weapon in an ankle holster. I'm retired now. If your still working, be safe, and watch yourself 360 degrees, up, down, and around. As I always told my squad of detectives before turning them out for a tour of duty, the most important aspect of your job is to go home.
 
It does not happen often, but is a potential threat. It is JMO that it is safer for non LEO's and LEO's when off duty, to conceal carry.
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Is it a greater threat than not having a gun?

Largest police dept. in the world? So you were a part of the People's Armed Police in China?
 
Why?
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Simple. Most of the people who are the most vocal proponents of it are more concerned with making a political statement than they are with carrying a defensive weapon. The incident in Pennsylvania was a prime example. The individuals there decided to make a public appearance and draw attention to themselves. Then, when confronted, the organizer made an ass of himself to "tha man". I LOL at the problems he brought upon himself--as well as every other story I read of someone getting hassled because they chose OC.

How many of you people have actually thought about what's going to happen if this passes and 50-80% of businesses post legal "no handgun" signs? What, precisely, will you have accomplished? Oh wait, most of you claim a property owner has no right to prohibit you from carrying. :scrutiny: You are, and always will be, wrong. Any property owner has the right to tell you to leave for any reason. I support making it a felony to violate a legal sign, rather than the class A misdemeanor it currently is. Seriously people, why do you patronize businesses that DO NOT WANT YOU THERE?????? Does it make you feel more manly? Do you feel like you're "getting one over" on someone?

I don't particularly care for the hoops I have to jump through to maintain my CHL, but it does keep the loonies from making normal gunowners look like morons. There are some exceptions, one of which was posted by a member on another forum. He, and his buddies, should have had their licenses suspended if not revoked.

Oh, and by the way, I told them both that I wanted to see improvements in the CHL regulations/statutes. I might stop by their local offices today and give their office staff my opinion in person. I'm pretty sure that votes matter, and I will vote against them should they choose to support this.
 
machinisttx; you make rational sounding noises, but where's your evidence?

Like I've said, there are a lot of other states with open carry and the sky hasn't fallen. Why would you put more faith in your hypothetical scenarios, than in the evidence of the real world?
 
How many of you people have actually thought about what's going to happen if this passes and 50-80% of businesses post legal "no handgun" signs? What, precisely, will you have accomplished? Oh wait, most of you claim a property owner has no right to prohibit you from carrying. You are, and always will be, wrong. Any property owner has the right to tell you to leave for any reason. I support making it a felony to violate a legal sign, rather than the class A misdemeanor it currently is. Seriously people, why do you patronize businesses that DO NOT WANT YOU THERE?????? Does it make you feel more manly? Do you feel like you're "getting one over" on someone?
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Same arguments were made when the original CHL was being debated.

All the doom and gloom. . . didn't happen, did it?

Jeff
 
Double Naught Spy states:

Is it a greater threat than not having a gun?

The discussion was not whether or not you have a gun, it was addressing how you choose to carry it, either OC or CC.

Largest police dept. in the world? So you were a part of the People's Armed Police in China?
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Brilliant comment.
 
What is the advantage of open carry? Seems to me that someone could snatch it right from the holster and run just like a pocket book. Worst yet, use it on you! Isn't concealed carry better. Keep the bad guy guessing. The element of surprise is always an advantage.
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You have Never tried a Serpa holster I see....

your "reasoning" is hideously flawed.

Seems to me that someone could snatch it right from the holster and run just like a pocket book.
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Nonsense, 99% of holsters used for OC have special retention to prevent this, Serpa Holsters for EG, Quick to draw from, but literaly locks your pistol into the holster, which is effectively locked to your belt.

It's like having your wallet chained to your belt.

Isn't concealed carry better. Keep the bad guy guessing. The element of surprise is always an advantage.
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While I won't argue the virtues of having an element of surprise, Concealed Carry's main "Advantage" is in "Not Scaring the Sheep" however from what I am told and have experienced Open Carry is a good Educational Tool, the "Is that a Gun?" comment usually turn into a conversation that 9 times out of 10 leads to the conversion of an anti or at least the anti loosing their fear of guns.

Occasionally some will Knee-Jerk React and put in a "Man with a Gun" call to 911, but that usually results in educating any police that are not otherwise educated on state firearms laws, "Sometimes" but not very often it can result in some Elitist/Anti cop Hauling you off to the Greybar Hotel, but that is an exception and not the rule.

Also their is the Deterrent Factor, although most of the general public never notice an OC'd Pistol, Crooks will as they are the only ones looking for them.

Also from a tactics standpoint, OC allows a major tactical advantage, Quicker/Easier access to your firearm should the SHTF and situation (god forbid) require you to draw and fire on someone.

However if you (anyone) are considering OC, Research, Research, Research, your Local and State Laws and Ordinances First, and have some local Pro 2A Officials and fellow local OC'ers Number's on Speed Dial "Just Incase" you have a rare run-in with a Ignorant/Anti/Elitist Cop.

Don't OC unless you are certain it is legal, aside from that, Have fun and Stay Safe.
 
Today is a good day for our country!!!!
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Indeed!

The supreme court decision defending the 2nd Amendment was a success in part due to the support of the following organizations.

In a message dated 6/26/2008 3:24:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

The New York State Rifle &Pistol Association, in conjunction with
the Association of New Jersey Rifle &Pistol Clubs, Texas State Rifle
Association, and Delaware State Sportsmen's Association, led a
coalition of more than 40 state gun rights organizations representing
a broad spectrum of American society in filing an Amicus Brief in
support of Heller and individual rights. We are pleased to have
played a part in this decision.
 
Interesting that arguments relating to open vs. concealed show up in Heller. Not because Scalia was trying to adjudicate the question, but rather to point out that many of the cases regarding handguns that have come through the system have involved laws that made concealed carry illegal.

Why did they do that?

Because only an assassin or someone of nefarious intent would conceal their gun. An honest man would have his (or nowadays also her) gun in plain sight where everyone could see that they weren't doing anything wrong.

Interesting how things flip around over time, isn't it?

Springmom
 
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