The 1911 - is it because it's American?

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Newton

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I have tried really hard to get into 1911s, really, really hard. Roughly 75% of the experienced and competent pistol shooters I know carries a 1911, or shoots one in competition.

There seems to be an announcement every other day that yet another high profile police department or BlackOps unit has switched to a high end 1911.

Every gun magazine devotes at least 50% of its space to the next great 1911 on the market (which is usually just their old model sprayed in desert tan and fitted with new grips).

Having now owned 4 different models (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, and now Kimber) I am reminded of the frequent feedway stoppages, the low magazine capacity, and the need to manipulate 2 separate mechanical devices to make it go bang. The guns just look, feel and shoot like museum pieces. I mean I love my .455 Webley, but would never even dream of choosing it over a Model 13 as a combat pistol.

So the only reason I could arrive at to determine the popularity of the 1911 is history, and maybe the fact it was invented here.

I guess I just don't get it, and likely never will. At the range, surrounded by all these tricked out Wilsons and Nighthawks, I sometimes feel like the kid who noticed the Emperor was naked. :confused:

Maybe I could get into some type of rehab :eek:
 
1911's are popular because they are everywhere. As there is no patent to restrict who can make them, every aspiring gun maker who can't or won't design their own firearm makes 1911's. Simple reliable design, and no patent licensing fees.

You wouldn't see nearly as many, nor would they be as popular, if the patent hadn't expired. Trust that.


-T.
 
^what he said.^

I love my Belgium FN HP's about the same.

They just both shoot well and fit good in the hand.
 
It's what's currently in fashon. Go back and read gun rags over the decades and you'll see that the publics tastes change.

Back in the 80's before the AWB it was the golden age of the wunder9

Then along came the AWB and the wonder nine was rendered a non competetor at the stroke of a pen in many ways Forcing the popularity of the 1911 platform.

Now with the sunset of the AWB you can literally see before your eyes the marketing machine and public opinion swing from the 1911 platform to little black evil rifles

It's no different in any other hobby tastes change, in the realm of the auto enthusiast you went from muscle cars to custom vans to lowered mini trucks to rice rockets and back to muscle cars
 
I don't compete with or carry a 1911. I mostly use Sigs.

The 2011 uses in competition is a very different gun then what JMB delivered in 1910. But even then Production division is probably the largest division in USPSA, and only a few 1911 designs qualify for that division.
 
I was once just like you, the only experience I had had with the 1911 was in basic training in the military. The ones I shot there were mostly worn out and rattled when shook, but they did go bang every time you pulled the trigger. My days in Law Enforcement saw only revolvers, model 27s, model 28s and my own carry revolver, a fine little model 19. I was quite happy with the revolvers, still am, but a few years ago, I shot a fine old colt 1911, it was just plain fun. However, nothing "felt" like I had heard it described. Never the less, I bought one, it was a long learning curve for me, I either loved it or hated it depending on how I shot it that day. But when it all came together, it was true love, today I have a few by a few different manufactuers, I want more! I have a 10mm a 9mm a few .45s and I want more. But from this day forward, they will all be chambered in the old .45 ACP, its the most pleasant cartridge to shoot, mild recoil but enough to "feel the power" without the wrist slamming you get with the 10 mms and definately much superior to the toy feel of the 9mm.

I still have way more revolvers than 1911s, but I haven't bought a revolver in several years, I don't see that changing either. I could kick my on butt for not buying a 1911 sooner.
 
I can't argue with any of the above responses, they all seem true. I think a good bit of it is the simple fact that its been around a LONG time and proven itself. The design lends itself to being hot rodded to no end and with the endless supply of after market parts I don't think it will ever end.
I know I wanted one simpley because I figured that everybody ought to own one.
 
I want a 1911, but I am probably going to get a Rock Island one (produced in the Philippines). I have my reasons. I won't go into all of them here, but I will state a few.

1. Kimbers and Les Baers are certainly nice and fancy, but if I'm getting a 1911, I want one that's as much like a standard issue 1911 as I can get. RIA 1911s are clones of the well known and widely respected US Military G.I. M1911-A1, and they have 100% parts compatibility with them.

2. If I'm going to get a USGI 1911, I don't see a need to pay more than $300 for it, which is what a new RIA can be bought for.

3. RIA 1911s rattle a bit when you handle them. They don't fit as tight as the fancy 1911s. That's ok. USGI 1911s were a little loose too, but they were reliable. The RIA 1911s are like the USGI ones in that respect. They're loose enough to go bang every time, while a finely tuned and tight 1911 can be picky.

Why do I even want a 1911 when I have more modern pistols that I carry daily? It's because a 1911 really does feel good in the hand. They "point" well too because of their grip angle. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the idea of carrying a single action autoloader "cocked and locked," but I might get over that fear. I remember a time when carrying a DA/SA or a DAO autoloader with a round chambered and the manual safety off made me nervous.
 
I cannot speak for anyone but me, and I am not a Special Forces operator nor do I play one on TV. I am a 39 year old, 6'2'" tall, 225 pound sales person who leaves in a rural America.

I like the 1911A1 (and legally conceal carry it) because:

A. It is a .45. I shoot hollow point, but if they do not expand, my rounds will still be almost a half inch in diameter.

B. Mine have been rock steady reliable, I know people have trouble with some, but my mostly stock Colt runs like a top. I have never had trouble out of Springfield Armory 1911's that I have had in the past. I had an M16A1 in boot camp that absolutely would not run, but that does not mean that I never bought an AR15.

C. They are relatively easy to modify if you so desire. I like straight mainspring housings with lanyard loops, and Novak tritium sights. This is easy to get done.

D. They fit well in my hand and I shoot them well. The straight back trigger aids accuracy to me. They fill my hand and do not slip around in my grip in recoil.

E. The shape and size of a full size 1911 allows me to CCW a full size combat handgun, not a handgun that starts with mini or micro.

F. It has enough power that I am not underserved by carrying my CCW piece open carry when working on the farm on the weekends.

G. I like the two safety concept. I know it is possible to grab the 1911 in such a way as to not engage the grip safety, but this has never been a problem for me. To me the grip safety is as mindless as the "safe action trigger" that Glocks use. I do not like Glocks, but appreciate they work and work well. I also like the idea of a manual safety. Operating can become second nature if you work with it.

None of these reasons are intended to flame anyone, but to explain why I like the 1911 as a combat or self defense weapon. Others may agree with me, while many probably do not. It is great to live in a free country, and have I mentioned that my handgun design of choice helped to secure that freedom!
 
I got a 1911 as my first semi-auto(currently my only semi-auto) I had a blackhawk from my brother in .45acp so I figured I'd get a glock 21 since all my buddies in LE had glocks- turns out my hands are too small for it but the counter girl directed me to a 1911 and now I'm saving up money for a high end one. So, the draw for me was a small handed 45acp
 
Newton said:
I have tried really hard to get into 1911s, really, really hard. Roughly 75% of the experienced and competent pistol shooters I know carries a 1911, or shoots one in competition.

There seems to be an announcement every other day that yet another high profile police department or BlackOps unit has switched to a high end 1911.

Every gun magazine devotes at least 50% of its space to the next great 1911 on the market (which is usually just their old model sprayed in desert tan and fitted with new grips).

Having now owned 4 different models (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, and now Kimber) I am reminded of the frequent feedway stoppages, the low magazine capacity, and the need to manipulate 2 separate mechanical devices to make it go bang. The guns just look, feel and shoot like museum pieces. I mean I love my .455 Webley, but would never even dream of choosing it over a Model 13 as a combat pistol.

So the only reason I could arrive at to determine the popularity of the 1911 is history, and maybe the fact it was invented here.

I guess I just don't get it, and likely never will. At the range, surrounded by all these tricked out Wilsons and Nighthawks, I sometimes feel like the kid who noticed the Emperor was naked.

Maybe I could get into some type of rehab

I've been looking at 1911's for a while, but I'm no expert, have little experience, and can't tell you the ins and outs of the pistol. I don't even own one. There are people here who can and do, so take what I say with two grains of salt, and if the old coons in here contradict me, listen to them. But I've been thinking about this question myself for a while (I’ve pretty much decided that the 1911 will be my first purchase), so here's how I justified that, given the array of weapons I could have potentially chosen.


“Why the 1911”


The 1911 pistol is a fighting gun, plain and simple. It was designed for combat in an age where quality, not money, did the talking. In the hands of dedicated personnel, it’s slim, but versatile, frame, smooth, sliding, single action trigger, grip angle, and other design features offer unparalleled accuracy with the least amount of training. There is a reason why many, experienced, pistol shooters carry and use the 1911- it’s easy to shoot well.

That said, it’s not a pistol designed for the casual shooter. If you want to bring out the full potential of the 1911, you need to know it. It’s strengths, it’s weaknesses, its parts and their functions, its wants and desires, its operation. Furthermore, you need to train with it. For most, this is too much work. And for them, the 1911 probably isn’t the right choice.

But for those who really count on their pistols and want to take the time to learn about them, the 1911 is the right choice. It’s easy to learn on. It’s easy to shoot well. And in the hands of dedicated personnel, its reputation for reliability and ability to deliver fight stopping hits accurately and quickly is probably without equal.


That said, today’s 1911 is not the 1911 that has proven so combat worthy in two World Wars and countless conflicts. Manufacturers, in an attempt to cut costs and deliver cheaper products, have cut corners in manufacturing and inspection. Built right, the 1911 is a reliable, trustworthy, life-saving tool. Built wrong, and it can get you killed. This is why it’s important to know this pistol moreso than most others. It needs to be built right, and oftentimes, experienced 1911 users will replace parts in stock guns with more reliable, aftermarket, parts. But once they do get it right, boy, can you count on it to go bang.


Some say you shouldn’t need to work on a stock pistol to make it go bang. And you shouldn’t. But the world is how it is, and they just don’t make them like they used to. But I say, whether it goes bang out of the box or not, you should know your gun. And for those who know and depend on their guns, the 1911 is the handgun of choice.

It ain’t for everyone, that’s for sure. It demands the tender loving care of a person who knows what he’s doing with his gun, and that’s something you have to learn with time. It demands training and practice. It demands high quality parts and attention to detail. But I know that if I do my job right, and I take care of it, the 1911 will take care of me, rain or shine, snow or sand, heaven or hell.


Before I started searching for the right gun, I decided that I want to know and learn about my pistol. I want to take the time to learn its history, its stories, its parts and operation, and its strength and weaknesses. I want to pop the books open, memorize the manual, and practice with it until my imaginary girlfriend kicks me out of the house for giving my pistol more attention than her. I want to tinker with it until I get a scar from the recoil spring hitting me in the head one too many times. I want a pistol to take care of, and a pistol that will take care of me.

I searched long and hard. There were so many choices. There were Sigs, CZ’s, XD’s, Glocks. Semi’s, revolvers. 9’s, 45’s. 4 inchers, 5 inchers. Double actions, single actions. But after all that searching, and reflecting upon my desires, I realized that there was really only one choice, one want, one desire. After looking deep down, only one package really fit the bill for me- the 1911 pistol.

Like I said, it ain’t for everyone. But it’s the right one for me. Now all I have to do is pick the right 1911 from all the different manufacturers and models! But that’s a story for another day. :)
 
spiroxlii said:
Kimbers and Les Baers are certainly nice and fancy, but if I'm getting a 1911, I want one that's as much like a standard issue 1911 as I can get. RIA 1911s are clones of the well known and widely respected US Military G.I. M1911-A1, and they have 100% parts compatibility with them.

Except the slide, as I understand it. IIRC, they're slightly out of spec and some sanding is necessary to put them on other frames.
 
cant say its a nationalism thing.

my pistol is a 1911, but its Para Ordnance (Canadian) my rifles are all foreign production and/or design with exception of a Hi Point carbine and a M1917. shotguns are American

my interest is soley in the fact they work well, shoot well, are mostly quality made, and well designed
 
krochus, that's a really excellent point. I wonder if the buying patterns are shifting since 2004.

Personally I have never been able to warm up to them. Too many switches and safeties and the grip is too thick for my stubby fingers. Plus I think the .45 ACP is pretty limited in application compared with a .44 Mag or .356 Mag.
 
krochus, that's a really excellent point. I wonder if the buying patterns are shifting since 2004.

Just look at the literal EXPLOSION of the AR platforms popularity in the past couple years.

Even Remington makes one now!
 
I went through a 1911 period and had 11 different models over a few years. Out of those, only 3 worked 100% from the box. From my experience it can be a tempermental platform especially when manufacturers don't give them the attention to detail thats required. The 3 I had that worked perfect were a Wilson Combat CQB, Les Baer Thunder Ranch, and Kimber TLE II. I like the feel of the weapon, and the accuracy, but overall if going single stack .45 I'll take an older SIG P220 any day. I've experienced almost all of my pistol problems with the 1911 platform. Feed malfunctions galore, broken extractors and ejectors, broken thumb safety, cracked frame, bushings, and plunger tubes popping off. Now these problems were in normal "production" models. When I ventured into the Wilson and Baer realm, all the problems did disappear, but at a $2,000 price tag too.....
 
I know I wanted one simpley because I figured that everybody ought to own one.

Pretty much why a 1911 is the next on my list. Kind of in a class all its own. I have a hi cap practical 9 mm, a p38, a conceal carry .380, couple 357 ruger vaqueros, a ruger 22/45. Have others that I want competing for the dollar but having a 1911 just has to be. Just because. I wouldn't get carried away though and drink the kool aid on big bucks on one. If it is for competition or SD plenty of other more modern pistols I would trust more. The 1911 looks fun but it sounds like a finicky and fussy firearm at times. The history is compelling to collect and unlike something like the luger there are a gazillion inexpensive options.
 
Excellent responses guys, thanks.

One thing I would like to ask is how many of you have experienced feedway stoppages with your 1911s?

In spite of the other issues I had with the design, I could forgive it everything if only it was 100% reliable, and yet not a single one of the 4 brands I owned was ever totally reliable, with the Kimber being the worst of a bad bunch.

All my issues were feedway related, was this a known design fault?
 
I think it's because we're all idiots and buy the hype, myself.

Great trigger? Yup!
Points well? You betcha!
Accurate if handled right? Boy howdy!
Costs an arm and a leg for no real good reason? Absolutely!

It's the current "flavor of the month" along with ARs, just like it was polymer wondernines and AKs a while back.
They churn all these hyped up, overpriced guns out and slap "High-Speed/Low-Draggers from Agency-X uses us!" with some random from the production floor wearing SWATzen GEARzen and a tacticool light off the side or bottom of the current supa-gunz in a blurry pic. They do this knowing full well that we'll eat it all up and swear to jeebus that we needz that thar shootin' iron for ourselves or we'll look like chumps at the range.
Yeah, they're super-fly accurate. When fired by guys with a nigh-unlimited ammo budget and have the training time to blow through 10-25 times more ammo than any Regular Joe could even dream of on a weekly basis.
Yeah, they're uber-reliable. When they have a permanent on-site armorer who's main job is to keep the things running.

But hey, what's $1500-2500 for a $500-1000 gun amongst friends? :evil:
 
If they aren't for you, they aren't for you, but you don't have to get wrapped around the axle about it. Honestly, they're not for me either and I have none left in my collection. Wanna know what I think of them? I don't. I've simply moved on, and wish all the best to those that think 1911s are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Someday I might even give them another try, but for now I'll continue basking in the overpriced glow of HK, SIG, etc.

One thing I would like to ask is how many of you have experienced feedway stoppages with your 1911s?
When I owned them I did. Seen plenty of malf's in other brands too, though. I've heard that many 1911s are manufactured to tighter specs that the originals. Supposedly, this increases accuracy at the expense of reliability. Kimber follows this principal. This is why they've formulated the '500 round break-in period.'
 
psyopspec said:
Supposedly, this increases accuracy at the expense of reliability. Kimber follows this principal. This is why they've formulated the '500 round break-in period.'

That's one major reason why I want an RIA. The reviews you often read about them say that they're built like USGI guns, not like tacticool competition divas. They rattle a little! They're loose enough to work right.
 
Having now owned 4 different models (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, and now Kimber) I am reminded of the frequent feedway stoppages, the low magazine capacity, and the need to manipulate 2 separate mechanical devices to make it go bang.
The problem is that many companies don't build the guns correctly, thereby giving a great design a bad reputation. The two safeties are a non issue. One is deactivated with a proper firing grip. The other is closer to the grip than those found on more modern designs like the Beretta 92 or Smith & Wesson 3rd Gen Autos. For many the thumb safety deactivates when they take a firing grip since they grip the 1911 high with their thumb riding the safety.
The guns just look, feel and shoot like museum pieces. I mean I love my .455 Webley, but would never even dream of choosing it over a Model 13 as a combat pistol.
It's funny that you call the M1911 a museum piece, but call the S&W M13 a combat pistol. The M13 is little more than a Model 10 chambered in .357 Magnum. The Model 10's roots are even older than the M1911, with the M&P Hand Ejector being offered as a standard model in 1899, and essentially taking its modern form in 1905.
One thing I would like to ask is how many of you have experienced feedway stoppages with your 1911s?
Only on a SIG GSR, and only with truncated cone JHPs.
In spite of the other issues I had with the design, I could forgive it everything if only it was 100% reliable, and yet not a single one of the 4 brands I owned was ever totally reliable, with the Kimber being the worst of a bad bunch.
Was your Kimber a Series II? Their firing pin safety equipped guns have developed a bad reputation. Neither of my two Kimbers (both not Series II) have a had a problem.
All my issues were feedway related, was this a known design fault?
Not to the USGI guns. In modern guns built to no particular standard and equipped with flavor of the week mags it can be a problem. I've read about mag problems here, and experienced them myself. My few USGI mags are the go to mags.
 
I don't have one yet, but on the list of To Get is a 1911 in stainless -- and I esp. like the ones from Taurus and Sig with light rails. Heretical, perhaps, but I like the option to add a light / laser / small sink if I so choose :)

For me, there are two big reasons that the 1911 appeals:

1) Grip shape and angle -- both just seem nicely human-oriented, with me as the human involved.

2) grip safety! Same thing I like about the XD, but I know the 1911 had it a few years earlier ;)

timothy
 
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