The 1911 - is it because it's American?

[kentucky_smith]

Hoppy, I'd re-read the last line of Robert's response.

Okay, so you want a .45 ACP. What are the choices?

Glock 21 et al. Doesn't feel right, don't like the firing system.

3rd Gen SW. Meh.

Sig 220. Very nice, closer.

XD/MP/FNP45: too new.

Now, none of these come close to the aftermarket support that the 1911 has. Much like the AR, the 1911 has become the lego building block of the handgun world.

 

[dmazur]

One thing I would like to ask is how many of you have experienced feedway stoppages with your 1911s?

Well, I shot an old 1911 in boot camp, to qualify in pistol. Later, in A School, a few of us got together for informal shooting, and I got a Combat Commander. (Around 1971) It was accuracte enough, but it would not feed hollow points.

After throating the barrel and polishing the feed ramp, it did. Trigger was still heavy, but it was reliable and accurate.

Many years later, I got another Commander, and an Officer's Model.

The Commander just needed a better trigger. Colt had already done the throating and feed ramp polishing as standard items.

The Officer's Model had feed problems. It didn't like factory magazines. After building some out of McCormick tubes and Pachmyer followers w/ Wolff springs, I had reliable feeding.

I understand these experiences are not all that unusual in the 1911 world, if you don't get an Ed Brown or a Wilson or similar. An awful lot of the 1911's sold are "functional", but not necessarily reliable.

Jeff Cooper was sold on them. Simple design, very effective in practiced hands. Not necessarily the best pistol for someone who doesn't want to invest time toward proficiency...

 

[Coronach]

The 1911 certainly is an American icon, and 80 years of being the standard duty pistol (and an additional 20 of being limited-issue to certain units) have certainly given it a leg up on its competitors. However, it would not be in the pre-eminent position that it is without two additional factors:

1. The 1994 AWB suddenly pushed civilian-shooter industry emphasis away from from hicap Wondernines and into an autoloader that was not at all handicapped by a 10-round upper limit to capacity. While emphasis has shifted again since 2004, the 1911 is still firmly entrenched.

2. The gun is exceedingly good at what it does.

I credit #2 with more importance than #1, though #1 certainly helped sell more gunrags.

Seriously. The gun (in proper spec) is accurate and reliable, ergonomically superb for most people, and posessed of an outstanding trigger. The simple fact is that most people can shoot the 1911 very well, and if you devote practice to it, the design lends itself to exceptional performance.

YMMV, of course. I shoot a BHP better than a shoot a 1911, but shoot a 1911 better than most anything else. It just plain works for me.

Mike

 

[spiroxlii]

In the era of the AWB, I was not old enough to purchase handguns, so sometimes I forget about the lasting effect that the ban had on the gun scene in this country.

I did buy an HS2000 (same gun as the XD9) a few months ago. It's a full size (service) model, but it came with a 10rd magazine because it was originally purchased either during the AWB or in a California-approved configuration. I remember holding this full size 9mm pistol and thinking to myself, "This thing is huge and a 9mm... it should have a very high ammo capacity." I eventually did go buy some 16rd XD9 magazines for it to make it a proper "wondernine;" however, if I had not had the option to increase its capacity easily (and legally), I can see how I might have been driven into the arms of the 1911.

*Actually, I was old enough to buy handguns before the AWB expired, but I wasn't interested in them yet and didn't have my carry license. I was just a milsurp collector then. CRUFFLERS UNITE!

 

[Old Dog]

I found 1911 owners are like Harley Davidson owners. Fiercely loyal, sometimes to the point of arrogance and mocking of anything else.

Really now. I've found that most 1911 owners are far quieter (in person) about their preference, and far better handgunners than, say, your average Glock fanatic.

BINGO

And most are the other 99 precenters who only buy into them cause that's what everyone else has and is what's cool at the time

I'm assuming the poster meant "99-percenters" ... at any rate, I hardly believe that's why folks buy, carry and shoot 1911s (I won't get into the realm of H-D owners) ... As noted before, the 1911 platform requires a certain amount of (a) knowledge of the operating principles and maintenance requirements and (b) dedication to proper care and shooting technique ... I, and the other serious 1911 guys and gals I know, don't buy, carry or shoot 1911s because "that's what everyone else has" or even due to the coolness factor (which is, obviously, considerable and undeniable).

I have been shooting 1911s and using them professionally since, no doubt, many of you were in diapers. Frankly, most people who desire to own "what everyone else has" seem to gravitate toward the Glock pistols; those who want "what's cool at the time," well, if that's why they're buying guns, who cares about them ... It has nothing to do with the fact that the 1911 is an American icon (well, it is); rather, it has everything to do with the fact that many of us grew up in the pistol world with the 1911, carried it in harm's way, learned it, used it, and understand that it's a superior platform for serious use.

 

[huff]

If you want 100% buy a wheel gun, it goes bang everytime. Hold a 1911 and you want one.

 

[bwavec]

If there was one semi-auto that could be a usable heirloom gun, the 1911 is it.

Over a hundred years from now, your descendants will likely still be able to find parts to keep "old so-and-so's" 1911 running.....even if it is a WWI era 1911....and has thousands upon thousands of rounds through it.......

How many of the current more modern offerings will you be able to say that about ? (Try finding rebuild parts right now for an HK P9s, Ruger P89, etc.....without the internet it would be like a needle in a haystack !)

 

[Silvanus]

I didn't read through the whole thread and somebody probably mentioned it already, but 1911s are not only popular in the USA. Almost everyone I know who is interested in firearms owns at least one of them. So the fact that it's "American" is not the deciding factor why it's liked by many shooters.

 

[W.E.G.]

1911?

Nice piece of history, and still holding its own among competitors and collectors.

But, if you look at sales, the future is undeniable.

Comin' thru!!!

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

My 1911 must be broken. It cost $500 new and it hasn't ever failed me. It never needed a break-in period. Just popped in fodder 230gr and it just worked. The only problem it's ever had is the slide lock plunger being a bit out of spec(doesn't interfere with function. Just requires a little more effort for reassembly). I haven't treated the pistol delicately(it's a work horse like all my weapons) so it may not look as pretty as most but it just works. It's the only automatic pistol that I've been able to keep around. It's a Springfield Armory, Inc. "GI" Model. I guess the Brazilians suck at cloning the 1911 because they failed to duplicate the lack of reliability.

I hear the same thing about M4s, M16s, and AR15s. Must be every M16, M4, and AR15 I've ever used was broken too.

 

[vikz]

IMHO its becs the design is just way ahead of its time when John moses Browning invented it and we are just now realizing it, its very reliable ,easy to shoot, easy to replace parts to whatever your wallet can afford, accurate once you get use to the sights and most of all its a 45acp, dont care what everyone say if you get hit by a 45acp you will go down no matter what..just imagine the design is almost 100yrs old and yet its still the most copied design..even sigsauer has a 1911 line..

 

[AndyC]

Customisability - you can make it whatever you want and the parts are easily-found in almost any gun-store, to say nothing of buying them online.

 

[rellascout]

http://www.studio360.org/episodes/2008/07/04

Here is a great NPR spot on the 1911.

 

[JDGray]

Once you carry a 1911, everything else feels like a block of wood in you pants All three run 100%

 

[Storm]

I resisted the 1911 thing for a good long time, almost thirty years, in fact. And yes, the coverage and plethora of them out there recently really ticked me off. Every which way you tirned there they were. A good buddy of mine who spends thousands on them (at times over five grand) said that resistance was futile. He was right.

It started with a RIA compact and then a LLama Mini Max .45 compact (a very Warthog kind of gun) and the 1911 had a beach-head. My tastes in guns (other than Smith and Rugers) mostly runs to European manufacturers like Sig, HK, Walther, Steyr, but Sig offered me a "compromise" for the 1911. Their GSR Revolution is US made but the slide is very typically German styled like their other offerings. I now own one. And being into Smiths lately, their 1911 is now on layaway, mostly paid for. Can't get much more American than Smith. I also see an STI LS9 in the future and you can't get more American than a (relatively) small operation cranking out guns in Texas.

Are 1911's perfect? No, but I think there is something uniquely American about them, sort of like the Sherman tank, the M1 Garrand and Coca Cola.

 

[EricShelton]

Oh man... There are a LOT of responses here, and some very good ones on both sides of the issue! Here's my 2 cents...

I'm new to the 1911. It's my 5th carry/CCW gun, and the evolution of me carrying this or that and discovering what I liked or what didn't work for me. It's a Kimber Tactical Custom II, and not the model I actually wanted, but I was able to buy it used for a song.

Coming from the Glock, the trigger actually took some getting used to! A single action is quite different from a striker! But once I got used to the gun, it's far and away the most accurate one I've owned. I'm not a great handgunner, but this gun lets me consistently pop soda cans at 30 yards. Maybe that's no big deal, but it's REALLY good for me!

And in 350 "break in" rounds, I haven't had a single malfunction.

I think it's hilarious that some people say there are too many safeties on the 1911, while others dislike Condition 1.

Slimmer and easier to conceal than many other .45 ACP pistols, and shoots wonderfully? I love my 1911. And yeah, the American classic aspect doesn't hurt. Like a '32 Highboy Hot Rod, it's a classic, and that appeals to me. The fact that so many old gunfighters (meaning that they LIVED to be old) like the 1911 is another motivator for me.

Having said all that, I still love HK USP's and I'll never knock people who prefer an XD or Sig, or whatever. Different strokes for different folks, is all.

 

[mhinagoya]

I carry a 1911 because it feels like an old friend in my hand, I can hit with it, it always works, and those big fat bullets inspire me with great confidence.

Bill.

 

[Old School]

My only objection to the 1911 is the way it functions. I grew up with revolvers. So when it comes to my autos, I like them to function like revolvers. To be specific, I like to be able to have a round in the chamber and use a double action trigger pull if need be and yet have the option of drawing the hammer if time permits. I don't like safeties on handguns so cocked and locked is out of the question for me. But, that is just a personal preference, and that is why 1911s don't work for me. They are great to look at though and they do have a wonderful and storied history.

 

[robctwo]

I resisted the 1911 for a number of years just because of all the hype, and I was very interested in 9mm. Sig, Glocks, BHP, CZs later I broke down and bought a SA Black Stainless Target. One thing led to another and I replaced the ignition parts with Ed Brown internals. I discovered that I could disassemble the gun with ease.

Then came the S&W1911PD Commander for a lighter carry gun, then the Ed Brown Executive Target, the Les Baer PII and now the Les Baer PII in 9mm. I've come full circle. 9mm and 1911 in the same package.

I still own and shoot all the others except the Sigs, which I sold to a good home to finance the 9mm PII. For me, when I'm shooting steel or bowling pins in a competitive situation, the 1911 just seems to point and hit better than the other guns, so that's what I pick up. No doubt that's what lots of others have found when it came time to defend themselves as well.

 

[mec]

Having now owned 4 different models (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, and now Kimber) I am reminded of the frequent feedway stoppages

It is possible to get lucky and pick one up through ordinary commercial channels that works just fine. A safer bet its to get a semi-custom one from Les Baer or a limited producton one from STI. They are excellent in every respect and bring out the best performance from the original design.

It is almost impossible to get the straight story on them. Being so popular, they are real Nut Magnets and everybody is an expert. If you have one with problems, an American Pistol Smith Guild Gunsmith is your best bet.

If you are not married to the 1911 platform, you might be better off buying a Sig 220 or any other of the 2-series pistols from SIG. They are durable, accurate and generally have little or no break in period.
Best of all, there are very few SIG Experts around to play big smart me/little stupid you with your head. You can enjoy the pistol without any background static

 

[Kilted Cossack]

In part, I love the 1911 because it's American. Audie Murphy, the Marines at Belleau Wood and Tarawa, soldiers in the hedgerows of Normandy . . . the Texas Rangers and, yeah, and Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd and them wild flyover country bank robbers.

What we've done to it, too, is part of us being Americans. Inveterate tinkerers, I'd say, that's us. We've figured out what makes the 1911 tick, and we've modified it to suit our preferences, and we've evolved doctrines and practices around it. (Who can say what the Modern Technique would look like if it had been developed around, say, a Tokarev?)

For all the history, and for all the tinkering, in the end the 1911 is a "curves crossing" fighting automatic pistol. It's big but carries small. It shoots the wonderfully balanced, low pressure .45 ACP cartridge (which we have worked all the bugs out of as well). It's heavy but not overly so---about the weight of a SAA or a S&W 1917, it's flat on the hip and it fits the paradigm we have taught our hands to look for in a pistol.

I've got a couple of nice 1911s---an older Springfield Armory Mil-Spec that's been breathed on by Alex Hamilton, and a hard chrome Colt Series 70 that was de-pimped by a guy who used to do pistols for the AMU. I don't carry them much, because I like them too dang much.

So yeah, I love 1911s because they're an American icon, but I shoot them because they're shootin' sonsaguns.

 

[rondog]

They're like Harleys. You either love 'em, or you don't.

 

[lazyeye]

To each their own? Personally I like the way they look, the way they feel, the way mine shoots.

BTW, my SA 1911a1GI feeds hollowpoints just fine with no modifications.

 

[Pilot]

I don't understand why people get so worked up about the 1911 as being an old design. Most modern auto pistols use the same Browning lock breeched design, they're just DA/SA instead of SA only. My 1911's are reliable and accurate. I use them mostly for range but wouldn't hesitate to carry them. Its a great platform that's popular because it works.

 

[CajunBass]

I guess I just don't get it, and likely never will.

It's ok. You don't have too. "Get" something else.