The 1911 is still being used!

[tarosean]

I guess you can call a 2011 a 1911. But I don't.

Interested to know what exactly you would call it?

In reality, the grip frame has been lopped off a 1911 and a poly frame attached.

 

[tarosean]

Swinging link? (in my mind, this is actually the biggest difference between a 1911 and a GLOCK).... wait for it.... NO!

The writing was already on the wall to move away from the link, with one of his last invention/patents. The P35/BHP is definitely the Grand Daddy of the "modern gun".

 

[Mauser lover]

The writing was already on the wall to move away from the link, with one of his last invention/patents. The P35/BHP is definitely the Grand Daddy of the "modern gun".

View attachment 815024

Absolutely right! The industry seems to have moved to strikers and away from hammers, but other than that and the material from which it is constructed... It's really tough to say that there is anything REALLY more modern than a BHP. Well... I don't like the ergonomics of the safety as compared to the 1911, but the mechanical design of the BHP safety is really a step or two simpler.

Oh! And the locking lugs. They've changed a wee bit in the last 80 years.

Dare I say that mechanical design is subject to refinement?

If I have seen further it is by standing on the sholders of Giants. -Newton (and every truthful firearm designer since... Bacon?)

 

[Zerodefect]

Interested to know what exactly you would call it?

In reality, the grip frame has been lopped off a 1911 and a poly frame attached.

2011. The magazine is half the pistol. Get that right and......

I am a bit amazed that they didn't fix the magazines when the 2011's were made.

 

[ATLDave]

2011.

Alright, then, pistols with 1911 triggers and 1911 sears and 1911 hammers and (mostly) 1911 grip safeties and 1911 grip angles and 1911 toggles and 1911-lug-compatible barrels and 1911-lug-compatible slides are still dominating the highest levels of shooting performance.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Good grief people!

Almost every successful locked-breech semi-auto pistol out there is a 1911 derivative! There aren't very many rotating barrel, short recoil pistols out there, and very few gas operated pistols (and REALLY few long recoil pistols)!

Is a GLOCK a 1911 derivative? Yes.

Single stack? No
Hammer? No
Single action? No
Steel frame? No
Safety? No.
Beautifully designed gracefully curved aesthetics and ergonomics? No (give me a second to find my asbestos suit...)
Swinging link? (in my mind, this is actually the biggest difference between a 1911 and a GLOCK).... wait for it.... NO!

How is it a derivative? It's a Browning-designed tilting breech! Without SOMEONE figuring out that tilting breech, we'd be stuck with rotating barrels (which are probably conceptually fine, they just haven't taken off). And yes, this is definitely the most important facet of handgun design. We've got to contain the pressure somehow.

Just because we (well... Browning) figured out that it is better to not use the swinging link and use an inclined plane instead to lower the breech doesn't mean that the concept of locking the barrel to the slide was new to... well... anyone after Browning. This guy even patented the slide on a pistol (I know, not the 1911, but still one of his designs). I can't find any earlier successful semi-auto pistols that use a tilting breech. If you know of any, please tell me. Really, I want to know. 'Cause I'm a nerd.

So... are we are upset that the Sig won the army trials? Well...
Are we upset that there are other pistols that do well in competitions?
Are we upset that some people like ugly chunks of plastic for carry/competition/duty?

They are all 1911s! Just in various stages of un-1911-liness. Grandkids, you might say. If someone has an earlier design for the tilting breech I need to know about, I'll call them cousins three or four times removed instead of grandkids.

BUT! Until you take away the tilting breech, you are going to have a tough time convincing me that it is not a 1911 derivative.

This whole thread is pointless. But good on the Philippines for using domestic industry. A society that doesn't produce something falls into insignificance and dependence on others.

Yada, yada, yada! It is a 1911 to me if it has the action, the trigger, the hammer, the specific safeties i.e. the parts that make bang or stop it from making bang. Double stacking the magazine, lightening the frame with aluminum or polymer, none of that matters to me. Nobody shoots and Glock and thinks, "Oh, another 1911." But a 2011, that is a different story.

 

[Mauser lover]

Nobody shoots and Glock and thinks, "Oh, another 1911."

Well... It's been a while since I shot a Glock, but nearly every time I pick up my S&W Shield (.45) and put it on for the day I really do think...

"Boy am I glad they figured out how to make a 1911 subcompact!"

And boy am I glad it weighs less than it did a hundred years ago too!

(And yes, I like "real" 1911s too. If these new Philippine military ones are as good as the Armscor ones I've seen, I have no question why they find them satisfactory. A pistol is used so seldom that it really doesn't matter all that much to a military what they have, but as far as I am concerned, they did choose well.)