toivo
Member
Is it possible that this was a ricochet?
The .22LR in Actual Use
- Thread starter Puncha
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Isn't the IDF using silenced 10/22s to neutralize guard dogs?
I was always told that the biggest bear taken in North America was shot in the head by an Indian woman with a .22.
Also, according to something I read, probably the FBI report on handgun effectiveness and wounding factors, the majority of people who aren't as experienced with weapons as the rest of us will fall down as soon as they've been shot by any caliber of firearm because that's what they've been subconsciously programmed to do by the media.
Of course it also depends on the .22 cartridge you choose. I think a .22LR could do a lot more damage than a .22 short. While taking a forensics class I studied the case of a convenience store employee who was shot between the eyes at close range with a .22 short. The bullet penetrated his scalp but not his skull, slid along the top of his skull under his scalp and popped out the back of his head. It looked like he'd been shot straight through the head. He never even lost consciousness and was beating the snot out of the guy who shot him when LE arrived.
All that being said. A .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 in your safe.
bhk
Member
Whenevery I see one of these threads, my only thought is WHY-WHY-WHY would anybody defend carrying a .22 for self defense or planned use of one for home defense!!? Again, WHY??????? There are so many more powerful calibers out there (like ALL of them). Fear of recoil can be the only legitimate justification, other than one already having a hunting/target .22 and not having the resources for another firearm.
I just don't get it. A Keltec .380 is smaller than any .22 I know of, so size/weight can't be an issue. Ease of use can't really be a factor, because with limited training and practice one can shoot a quality, effective centerfire accurately and rapidly. And those who say they plan on shooting for the eyes, I think this is a real pipedream given the stresses, lighting, and physical movements likely to be involved in most SD situations. I just don't get it, and I am a real .22 lover. I would use them for SD if I had to. But I don't.
I just don't get it. A Keltec .380 is smaller than any .22 I know of, so size/weight can't be an issue. Ease of use can't really be a factor, because with limited training and practice one can shoot a quality, effective centerfire accurately and rapidly. And those who say they plan on shooting for the eyes, I think this is a real pipedream given the stresses, lighting, and physical movements likely to be involved in most SD situations. I just don't get it, and I am a real .22 lover. I would use them for SD if I had to. But I don't.
Vern Humphrey
Member
It's not like you can have only one gun -- and have to take what somebody gives you.
As I have said before, many disasters occur because someone planned to have a disaster. They made bad choices ahead of time that paid off in pain when the chips were down.
TimboKhan
Member
I haven't been defending it, but let me try and answer your question anyway. Probably the number one reason is money. There are plenty of people out there that happen to own a .22 pistol or rifle that simply can't afford to buy a new gun. You can't fight with what you don't have. Second, I think a lot of the times, it's just a philosophical question that people are interested in. No harm in that. Third, I genuinely believe that there is a certain segment of the population that believes the .22 is some sort of ninja stealth round. Much like the .410 is an "experts" shotgun, I think some people honestly believe that the .22 is capable of doing anything in the right hands. These people also think that Mack Bolan stories are non-fiction. Now, I have no idea why the OP posted the question so I don't want to categorize him in particular, but in general, I think it probably falls into one of these three categories.
Geronimo45
Member
Likely. That's why folks are encouraged strongly to wear eye protection - while those ricochets probably wouldn't do much damage to reg'lar skin, they could mess up your eyes.
My summary is becoming truer with each passing page.
Steve499
Member
Vern Humphrey, I have another, similar High Standard .22 story. At the local tavern, a man and his girlfriend were minding their own business when a bully-type drunk began trying to pick a fight. They tried to just leave but the bully followed them out and blind sided the man, knocking him down. Then the bully jumped on top of him and began to seriously beat him. The girlfriend ran to their car, parked nearby, and got her fella's High Standard Double Nine Longhorn .22 revolver, ran back to the fight ( probably better described as a beating), and she fired into the bully's back from about three feet until the pistol went click, click, click. Now, she wasn't a gun person and had every intention of sending the bully off to begin keeping the grand secret, but the pistol had been loaded with .22 birdshot, so he just got a really interesting looking back out of it. He did, however, decide to stop his assault. We weren't sure if the pistol was fully loaded when she started or not, but it was full of empties when she stopped. Her boyfriend said he had shot it some and may or may not have loaded it back up. Short of counting all the itty-bitty holes, there just wasn't any way to tell. The local prosecutor didn't file any charges against her. I thought she did well, myself.
I'm not saying .22 birdshot is a good defensive round so don't EVEN go there, but it did save one guy's bacon, one time.
Steve
I'm not saying .22 birdshot is a good defensive round so don't EVEN go there, but it did save one guy's bacon, one time.
Steve
Jorg Nysgerrig
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How do you figure that? A CCI stinger out of a rifle only hits around 1640 fps. Being a 32 gr bullet, you'd have to up that by another 500 fps to reach the kind of energy you're talking about or go up to a 55 gr projectile at the same speed.
Alphazulu6
member
With the advent of Kel-Tec P3AT no one has an excuse to NOT carry a .380 or larger (Kahr PM series would be the next logical stop with revolvers, and other highly CC weapons).
As for the .22 cal pistol; its a bit small. Anything smaller and...well... its good for what it was designed. An economical way to shoot small varmints, birds, pests, etc. From a 1" barrel which I have seen alot of people shoot it in for CCW does nothing for its already limited ballistics. Please give it some thought and grab a 200 muzzle energy + caliber.
As for the .22 cal pistol; its a bit small. Anything smaller and...well... its good for what it was designed. An economical way to shoot small varmints, birds, pests, etc. From a 1" barrel which I have seen alot of people shoot it in for CCW does nothing for its already limited ballistics. Please give it some thought and grab a 200 muzzle energy + caliber.
brighamr
Member
not sure if this was mentioned, but .22LR are used in active combat by chinese snipers. The quietness is one factor, the other is that they can hit any target anywhere (leg, shoulder, chest, etc) and the enemy will have someone they need to take care of... not a KIA. The .22 is great for quietly annoying the enemy, but not for stopping or killing it. (Unless the enemy is a mag-pie of course )
Personally, my SD weapon is an XD9. It's not the macho .500, but is has more capacity and it wont break my wrist.
Think about the situation you will most likely be faced with and prepare for that. Where I live, home invasions by gangs are fairly common which is why I went for capacity\rate of fire rather than ultimate OSOK stopping power. Then again, if I lived in Alaska with 30,000 grizzlies, I would go for the biggest damn bullet I could find and weld some 30 round mags together
) Personally, my SD weapon is an XD9. It's not the macho .500, but is has more capacity and it wont break my wrist.
Think about the situation you will most likely be faced with and prepare for that. Where I live, home invasions by gangs are fairly common which is why I went for capacity\rate of fire rather than ultimate OSOK stopping power. Then again, if I lived in Alaska with 30,000 grizzlies, I would go for the biggest damn bullet I could find and weld some 30 round mags together
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Then I am going to guess a CB round or an under powdered load . In any case you got real lucky. I have shot .22s that have punched through one inch plywood, several hundred pages in a wet phone book, through{in and out} of a coyotes head, two by fours,..... you get the picture. REAL LUCKY.
Doing a quick Google and found this little gem..... who knew that snipers were favoring the 22lr as their go to rifle Ummm...... yeah, that's it, the US military and Russian snipers will be throwing away their .50BMG, M40's, and Dragunovs for....... a 22LR.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/991772/posts
WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: Silent Sniper Rifle
StrategyPage.com ^ | September 29, 2003
Posted on 09/29/2003 3:34:04 PM PDT by John Jorsett
The lowly .22 caliber long rifle round is becoming a favorite among snipers. Professional assassins (usually thugs working for organized crime) have long favored using .22 caliber (5.56mm) pistols for their work. While not a powerful round, if you shoot someone up close with a .22 caliber pistol several things are noted.
1- The victim is dead if you shoot him in the head, whish is what pros usually aim for (as these guys like to say, "two in the head and you know he's dead.")
2- There is hardly any sound if you use a silencer, and not much even if you don't.
3-A 22 caliber pistol is small, even with a silencer. That makes it easier to conceal, and easier to dispose of.
Then the Russians noted that Chechen snipers were effectively using .22 LR (long rifle, them little bullets kids use to hunt squirrels and rabbits with) weapons. Inside towns and cities, the .22 LR sniper was very effective, especially since the Chechens would improvise a very workable silencer by putting a plastic bottle on the end of the rifle's barrel, with a hole in the bottom of the barrel for the bullet to exit. Using a cheap scope, Chechen snipers were very deadly at ranges of less than a hundred meters. Such ranges were pretty common in built up areas. And since you usually did not hear the shot (to the head or face, of course), you had a hard time finding the shooter. Having suffered from these low tech .22 caliber Chechen snipers for ten years, the Russians have come out with their own professional .22 LR sniper rifle, the SV-99. This is a little heavier (at 8.3 pounds) than your usual .22 LR rifle, but is built for professionals. It has a heavier barrel, a bipod, silencer and scope. It's 39 inches long and can accept five, eight or ten round magazines. There is a compartment in the butt stock for two five round magazines. With the SV-99, at a hundred meters, a skilled shooter can consistently put all rounds in a half inch circle. This is a specialist weapon, most likely used by commandos. But any trained sniper can quickly adapt to using it. And snipers like not being heard
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/991772/posts
WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: Silent Sniper Rifle
StrategyPage.com ^ | September 29, 2003
Posted on 09/29/2003 3:34:04 PM PDT by John Jorsett
The lowly .22 caliber long rifle round is becoming a favorite among snipers. Professional assassins (usually thugs working for organized crime) have long favored using .22 caliber (5.56mm) pistols for their work. While not a powerful round, if you shoot someone up close with a .22 caliber pistol several things are noted.
1- The victim is dead if you shoot him in the head, whish is what pros usually aim for (as these guys like to say, "two in the head and you know he's dead.")
2- There is hardly any sound if you use a silencer, and not much even if you don't.
3-A 22 caliber pistol is small, even with a silencer. That makes it easier to conceal, and easier to dispose of.
Then the Russians noted that Chechen snipers were effectively using .22 LR (long rifle, them little bullets kids use to hunt squirrels and rabbits with) weapons. Inside towns and cities, the .22 LR sniper was very effective, especially since the Chechens would improvise a very workable silencer by putting a plastic bottle on the end of the rifle's barrel, with a hole in the bottom of the barrel for the bullet to exit. Using a cheap scope, Chechen snipers were very deadly at ranges of less than a hundred meters. Such ranges were pretty common in built up areas. And since you usually did not hear the shot (to the head or face, of course), you had a hard time finding the shooter. Having suffered from these low tech .22 caliber Chechen snipers for ten years, the Russians have come out with their own professional .22 LR sniper rifle, the SV-99. This is a little heavier (at 8.3 pounds) than your usual .22 LR rifle, but is built for professionals. It has a heavier barrel, a bipod, silencer and scope. It's 39 inches long and can accept five, eight or ten round magazines. There is a compartment in the butt stock for two five round magazines. With the SV-99, at a hundred meters, a skilled shooter can consistently put all rounds in a half inch circle. This is a specialist weapon, most likely used by commandos. But any trained sniper can quickly adapt to using it. And snipers like not being heard
Chicken-Farmer
Member
I live in Alaska...
To the above post i live in Alaska, along side those bears. Believe me i'm not worried about them in the least. It's the two legged critters that i'm most worried about. If you give animals the respect that they deserve then they will leave you alone for the most part. Humans on the other hand are hard to predict. I personally carry a full size 1911 to defend my family. In the past i've carried a .380, .40, and even a .22. Personally, with regards to self defense, i'm not looking to kill someone. I want to stop the attack and get out of the situation. If someone wants my wallet, then i'll give it to them. Why do i need to put my life at risk for a wallet? Now if someone was attacking me that is a different story and it may come down to defending myself with a gun. Most situations can be dealt with in many ways. Think about hostage negotiators. The goal is to de-escalate the situation by calming the person down and get the upper hand. Often times it seems like people boast about "no one's going to get my wallet, or kill me without a fight". But i don't think thats the proper attitude to have. Keep your wits about you in most situations and things will turn out alright. Don't go out looking for trouble and trouble most likely won't find you!
Jeff
To the above post i live in Alaska, along side those bears. Believe me i'm not worried about them in the least. It's the two legged critters that i'm most worried about. If you give animals the respect that they deserve then they will leave you alone for the most part. Humans on the other hand are hard to predict. I personally carry a full size 1911 to defend my family. In the past i've carried a .380, .40, and even a .22. Personally, with regards to self defense, i'm not looking to kill someone. I want to stop the attack and get out of the situation. If someone wants my wallet, then i'll give it to them. Why do i need to put my life at risk for a wallet? Now if someone was attacking me that is a different story and it may come down to defending myself with a gun. Most situations can be dealt with in many ways. Think about hostage negotiators. The goal is to de-escalate the situation by calming the person down and get the upper hand. Often times it seems like people boast about "no one's going to get my wallet, or kill me without a fight". But i don't think thats the proper attitude to have. Keep your wits about you in most situations and things will turn out alright. Don't go out looking for trouble and trouble most likely won't find you!
Jeff
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have read the Geneva Convention, the Declaration of Independence and the Stelae at Bonampak. No where does it say that if you give him your wallet, he won't shoot you anyway.
fletcher
Member
You're not putting your life at risk. The criminal is.
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