The 642 club

[Iggy]

xy17

Can't answer your question about weights. My guns are steel and I use 158 grain reloads..

I am sure someone here will be able to help.

 

[jad0110]

Here's another question: The 642 .38 Special +P weighs
15 ounces. About how much does it weigh in at when loaded with Speer Gold Dot 135 Grain +P HP or Cor-Bon DPX 110 Grain?

Using my wife's Chefmate culinary scale (when she was not looking, of course ) I determined the following:

S&W 642-2, empty: 15.15 oz

S&W 642-2, loaded with 135 grain Speer Gold Dots: 17.55 oz (meaning each round weighs about .48 oz).

I can't comment on the Cor-Bons, which may be a touch lighter, but I doubt you would be able to feel it.

 

[packgoat]

642 well 442

This is my first post. I'd like to see if my 442 gets me in the club.

Packgoat

 

[JoeG52]

There is nothing in that warning about all lead bullets. The warning is about light-weight bullets. I have a 340 and have shot 158 gr lead SWCHP +P with no problem.

 

[fastbolt]

I realize the actual warning language doesn't list all-lead bullet ammunition specifically, but when I've asked someone from the factory, as well as an armorer instructor, I've been told that factory testing has shown that it’s the all-lead bullet ammunition which can be involved in bullet jump issues. The reason given? Well, cases crimp down and hold more firmly on jacketed bullets than they often do on all-lead bullets.

That may not be an absolute answer, though, because there's still the shooter to consider in the matter.

I remember calling and talking to someone at the factory one day and the subject of 'bullet jump' in Airlite revolvers came up during the conversation. It seems they had just received a new Sc .357 J-frame back for a reported warranty complaint. The new owner reported that he was experiencing bullet-jump with one of the major brands of 158gr JHP .357 Magnum ammunition.

Well, I was told that as it happened, the factory was able to duplicate the condition using similar ammunition ... but only when the test-shooter really, really relaxed their grip and wrist and allowed the gun to really move a lot during recoil.

The conclusion?

Apparently, when these ultra lightweight little Magnum revolvers are involved and heavy recoiling Magnum ammunition is being used, it might be possible for a heavy bullet to jump its crimp if the shooter doesn't use at least a reasonably proper and firm grip. Think of it as the lightweight little gun moving backward faster than the designers envisioned, with the bullet wanting to remain stationary in place, and the cartridge case in the cylinder jumps backward away from the bullet fast enough to overcome the pressure of the crimp.

Moral of the story? Hang onto the little beasts when shooting heavy recoiling Magnum ammunition.

Apparently, nobody ever 'limp-wristed' the Airlite Magnums during factory testing.

Now, please don't anyone get upset about this second-hand conversation about bullet jump shooting .357 Magnum ammunition, because this was apparently the first time anyone back at the factory had heard about this specific occurrence, let alone duplicate it ... and in order to do so they had to grip the gun very, very loosely. More loosely than they had ever expected anyone to grip a gun, especially such a hard recoiling gun as an ultra lightweight .357 Magnum.

These very small, very lightweight guns being chambered in .357 Magnum has got to be out there at the ragged edge of what technology and human endurance can withstand. I mean, I never expected to be able to shoot full power .357 Magnum ammunition in a platform so small and light that I could forget which pocket the gun was in, you know?

I have a Ruger SP-101 chambered in .357 Magnum. Heavy duty, robust little Magnum revolver. Remember when they were originally chambered in .38 Special, though?

Now, since I used to do a lot of shooting with Magnum ammunition in mine, I sent it out and had it Quad Ported a number of years ago. Makes shooting the gun for extended range sessions a lot easier. When I'm shooting full power 125gr, 140gr & 145gr Magnum ammunition the recoil is very controllable, and the muzzle whip is minimal. I can keep the front sight on targets at reasonable defensive ranges (3-10 yds) just about as fast as I can cycle the DAO trigger.

However, when I switch to heavier bullet ammunition, such as 158gr JHP Magnum loads, there's a noticeable (to me) increase in felt recoil back into the palm of my hand. The muzzle rise & whip is still minimal, but it starts kicking back into my hand harder. I can feel a real difference after shooting a couple of boxes of Magnum ammunition, depending on whether it's a lightweight or heavyweight bullet load.

Now, all of the Airlite J-frame Magnum shooting I've done has been with full power 125gr JHP ammunition. Lots of muzzle blast, muzzle whip and hand hammering. Fun. So to speak ...

Since I can feel the difference when shooting 158gr JHP Magnum loads through my SP-101, compared to 125gr loads ... and the Ruger is a much heavier gun than the S&W Airlite J-frames ... I can imagine how I might experience more felt recoil impulse when shooting the same 158gr Magnum loads through an Airlite. I'll have to try it and see.

JoeG52, can you tell any difference when shooting different bullet weight full power Magnum loads in your Sc 340 with the titanium cylinder?

 

[mattw]

All this talk of different ammo and recoil characteristics and muzzle flip got me thinking I might know what to expect when I touch off a 642 from the tactile point of view, but how loud are these things? I'd imagine you might have blood dribbling out of your ears after you empty a cylinder into a bad guy.

 

[Iggy]

The muzzle blast and noise are no where near the bleeding ears level.. Even .357's aren't.. That said, I don't shoot any of them without hearing protection.

I have had to do so in shooting incidents and was not aware of the recoil or the noise, but having done a lot of unprotected shooting over the years when I was younger and dumber, I live with tinnitus big time.

 

[xy17]

jad0110

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to check out the weight.

The manufacturers list the weight empty of their guns. In concealed carry, the reality is the total weight loaded in your pocket. So one can estimate an average additional weight of 2.4 ounces for a 5 round capacity, in .38 special or .38 Spl +P.

17.55 ounces is almost as much as a can of Progresso Garden Vegetable Soup (18.5 OZ) That seems like a lot of weight to carry aound all day in your pocket.

The new Smith & Wesson Model M&P 340 Revolver- Centennial, weight empty is 13.3 oz.. loaded is 15.7 oz., so there is only a 1.85 oz. difference between the 642 & the new M&P 340.

Iggy, thank you for your response.

XY17

 

[JoeG52]

"JoeG52, can you tell any difference when shooting different bullet weight full power Magnum loads in your Sc 340 with the titanium cylinder?"


There is a BIG difference when shooting different bullet weights. Like you said, the heavier bullets give lots of hand hammering fun. Even the 158gr +P in 38 special is not bad on recoil, but any 357 load lets you know you are shooting something! I always use a firm hold when shooting any handgun, maybe why I haven’t had a problem with bullet jump. I never planned on this being a fun gun for plinking but wanted that effective carry gun that you could forget what pocket it was in. It is really amazing how easy it is to carry. I have decided on the Federal 357mag 130gr HydraShok for carry. I usually practice with 38 special 130gr FMJ then end the session with a few 357 HydraShoks.

 

[fastbolt]

Thanks.

That makes sense. I thought it might similarly follow how different bullet weights behave in other platforms, but I just hadn't tried the 158gr Magnum loads in a Sc J-frame. The 125gr Magnum loads were sufficiently stout enough when it came to felt recoil.

Since the heavier bullet weights produce more hand hammering in my SP-101 than the lighter weights, I can only imagine how a couple boxes of 158gr Magnum loads would make my hand feel if fired through a Sc snub gun.

I'm thinking that I might decide to strike a balance and try some of the Win 145gr STHP Magnum loads in a Sc Magnum snub gun sometime. They're easier to control in my other .357 Magnum wheelguns and I've always thought they were a decent load.

Thanks again.

Might still pick up a 649 or 638, though. That would give me a steel-framed .357 and another .38 Airweight rated for +P. The M&P 340 could serve as an overlap, so to speak.

I like the versatility of the J-frame platform. Handy. Might need a couple more anyway.

 

[rb4browns]

Here's A Pic!

Here's my new 642, 100 rounds fired through it and counting

 

[BADUNAME4]

Do used ones pop up without the internal lock?

 

[mattw]

There is a used one for sale without a lock a few pages back in this thread. The guy is asking $550 I think. It comes with CT grips so that might justify the price.

 

[chipp]

but how loud are these things? I'd imagine you might have blood dribbling out of your ears after you empty a cylinder into a bad guy.

I carry +p in my 340 Pd. 357 is a bit too much recoil for me.
I put larger grips on it to see if i could get used to .357. The recoil was managable. It sounded loud enough to me (with ear muffs) to decide i didn't want to use 357 for CCW. Personally i think its rediculasly loud. I would not want to be in a small room or car without hearing protestion when it goes off in a SD situation..Just my opinion.

 

[gunmn74]

637 pic

I have couple posts on this thread and wanted to share the pic of the
revolver you all talked me into.
Sorry not a 642 but it is a J-frame.

 

[jad0110]

My accounting is complete!

FiVe kept an informal count of the number of 642s and other J Frame snubs sold as a direct result of The 642 Club.

For the past several weeks I have gone back through every post up until today and entered the following types of info into an Excel spreadsheet:

- 642s/442s sold as a DIRECT result of this thread. This was not easy to count, because not everyone stated that they bought because of The 642 Club, but it could be assumed in many cases. I tried to be somewhat conservative in my accounting.

- 642s/442s sold, but unable to determine if they were purchased as a direct result of The 642 Club.

- 638s sold

- 637s sold

- Other J Frames sold

- Other snubbies sold

Before I get into the numbers, here is a few cool tidbits: The first THR member to aquire a 642 as a direct result of The 642 Club was JERRY, at post # 41. I broke down my accounting into 5 pages at a time. The most guns sold were between posts 21 to 25 and 31 to 35 (tied at 16 in each) . The dryest period was posts 56 to 60, with only 3 sold .

Okay, drum roll please! ...






1) 642s/442s sold because of The 642 Club: 128

2) 642s/442s, UNSURE if sold b/c of the Club: 29

3) 638s: 2

4) 637: 7

5) Other J Frames: 10

6) Other snubbies: 1 (A Colt Detective Special )

Grand Total: 147 snubbies (176 if you throw in #2)

Interestingly, fiVe's count up to post # 1000 was 116 and mine was 121, so I'd say these numbers are pretty accurate.

I'll keep my count up-to-date as The 642 Club moves forward to it's glorious future!

A round of applause for fiVe!!!

 

[wooderson]

Add me to the list of 'because ofs.'

Somebody ought to drop a line about the thread and the count to S&W.

 

[wooderson]

For large hands, is there any meaningful difference between the Pachmayr Compacs and Hogue Monogrips?
Conceability isn't a concern right now, just shooting comfort - the stock grips are small enough that my trigger finger wants to go all the way to the second pad.

Once the CHL is here, Crimson Trace here I come.

 

[jad0110]

Duly added wooderson , and welcome to the Club !

 

[jad0110]

******* $Five for fiVe *******

EVERYONE PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY AND PROVIDE YOUR THOUGHTS. I know this is long, but please bear with me!

As many of you may recall, 642 Club member sheckigreen suggested the following idea as a way of thanking fiVe for this fine club:

If everyone who bought a 642 because of this thread put, say, 5 bucks in a pot...and a trusted member of the forum put the money in that pot toward a wheelie that five wanted from s&w, I think that'd be a cool idea. I mean I'd put up $5 for it...we could call it "$5 for Five"

;P

Just throwing that out there...could be a silly idea.

and if you're curious, I do not know five at all personally, and I have nothing to gain from it. Just thought it'd be a cool way for him to get what he should probably have gotten from S&W.

I and many others thought this was really nice idea. The following posts are quoted here from a few pages back to provide background:

Posted by fiVe:

Words fail me here (there's a lump in my throat, too). I could never say no to such a generous offer, but I hope all of you realize this was the absolute fartherest thought from my mind.

The thread should decide this--without any further encouragement, comment, input, etc. from me. Nematocyst-870 or jad0110 can be trusted as "keeper of the till", but I have not contacted them, so this would definitely require their approval (Nema/jad: hope I didn't just speak out of turn.)

If this goes thru, you can all say you know the most appreciative member on THR. If not, that will be fine too. I am just so touched that the offer was made.

Everybody stay safe.

Peace,
fiVe

Posted by Nematocyst-870:

fiVe,

Although I'm honored to be named by you
as worthy of trust for keeping the till,
I must pass on that duty, my friend.

(It has nothing to do with my respect for you & this thread - that's there-
and everything to do with my lack of time to devote to the project
while trying to keep my business afloat...)

I'm totally down with contributing 2X,
and think it should happen, and will happily contribute,
but must pass the responsibility of collection onto others.

I, too, totally trust our friend Jad,
and I suspect others in here as well.

Respect,

Nem (with 642 on my right side)

Posted by jad0110:

fiVe,

You didn't speak out of turn. In fact, like Nem, I feel honored that I've been nominated to be "keeper of the till"! I wonder how many people will trust me, but after all, it is only $5.

I think I will accept, however, a few things first.

1) I and one or two other folks should probably check the THR forum rules to make certain this isn't a problem. I doubt it would be, but it would still be prudent. I may PM one of the mods just to make certain too.

2) If everything is clear, I'd probably open a temporary PO Box to be used just for this purpose and this purpose alone. I'd make a post here in The 642 Club as well as creating a seperate thread in the Revolver forum too.

3) I'd request that everyone who sends their donation include their THR username at a minimum (email address optional) so that I could confirm receipt of donations.

4) It would probably be a good idea to decide on a cuttoff date for making donations; as much as I admire fiVe for establishing this fine club, I don't want to be checking that PO Box 5 years from now .

This could be a really great way to thank fiVe for opening so many eyes to the greatness of the little 38 snubbie. I know, many had already decided on a 642/442 or other snub, but I for one was on the fence until reading this thread (I had been considering a Bersa 380 or Beretta Tomcat). I am delighted with my 642! Even if S&W had been able to give him a gun as a "commission", this could be potentially even better: fiVe will get to pick exactly what he wants, new or used, and from any manufacturer.

Let me know what you all think ... if this happens, I'd like it to be right.

sheckigreen,

Id also suggest a paypal route also,for those of us who use it.

Posted by jad0110:

The issue was discussed among serveral of the Moderators and the concensus is that it can be done, but don't involve THR.

They did suggest that we discuss going to APS - http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/. This is another site set up by Oleg, the same fine gent who got THR started. This site was described by the Mod I spoke to as a "'roundtable' split from THR". Basically, one of us could create a post over on that forum and provide a link back to The 642 Club, giving everyone the opportunity to see The 642 Club themselves and make a small donation to the $Five for fIve fund .

All the mods agreed that our idea is certainly laudable, buy they would all like to avoid the risk of a precedent being set on THR.

I am going to clarify a few issues and let you all know more...

So, I have accepted the role as "keeper of the $Five for fiVe till".

Basically our little gift idea would be posted at armedpolitesociety.com. We would have reciprocal links on both sites directing people to and from The 642 Club and the post on APS. Here on The 642 Club, we could repost the link to APS at or near the top of every new page to make sure everyone sees it.

Finally, I understand that not everyone would feel comfortable sending me their gift to collect for fiVe, even if fiVe has expressed his trust in my honesty. Then again, it is just $5 per person. I'd also like to add that I have nothing to gain from this. In an effort to make the process more legitamate for those who might want to give more than 5 bucks, I propose that a second 642 clubber be involved (preferrably one of the Mods) in the following way: The person sending me the gift money would also notify the moderator or other 642 club member via a Private Message of their gift and it's ammount; in effect this other person would be acting as an auditor, providing a check-and-balance mechanism of sorts.

Please let me know what everyone thinks? Who is on board?

If I get enough positive responses, I'll make final preparations to include the selection of an "auditor" and opening a dedicated PO Box.

 

[fiVe]

jad: Thanks so much for your efforts. I like the approach your took and no one can argue with your methodology. It is important to have an accurate count, and I know that tallying all those numbers is no small task. I am very proud of this particular accomplishment for our thread. The more 642/442/637/etc. sold, the better!!

Recently, there has been a wave of new posters/owners. We continue to grow and grow and grow. This is good--may it continue. I also understand that we have inspired the creation of other "club" threads for specific models. This is just another positive influence of The 642 Club. (I joined the Marlin 336 Club over in Rifle Country!)

All of our growth and influence is a testament to all the members/contributors. We have a good thing here, and I'm looking forward to the coming days/weeks/months.

Peace,
fiVe

 

[g5reality]

Thank you fiVe

You were the inspiration for the "686 club" the big brother to the 642.

It was also a major reason I chose the 642 myself.

I hope the "686 club" becomes as well recieved and respected for all of the fine gun owners New and Old who participate and share their experiences.

Thanks again

 

[mattw]

Jad,

Re: $Five for fiVe

Subject: Count me in! Where do I send the Moolah??! I am already a member on APS, If you are not I could start the thread over there.

I also suggest that all 642 clubbers and 642 groupies (me) put a line in their signatures directing people to the $Five for fiVe program!

 

[jad0110]

Excellent idea on the signature line, mattw!!! Brilliant!

I may be calling on you to go make a post over on APS, and to keep it near the top of the forum where it is visible.

I think this is a done deal, I'll just give it a few more days to see what others have to say.

 

[mattw]

Sounds good, Jad. If you want me to start the thread you can either PM me with what it needs to say (since you seem to have all the bases covered and so I don't screw it up) and I'll fill in the niceties.