The 9.3 Dollar Question: Ruger or CZ?

[Googleplex]

Also, when I think about, I don't particularly need a plains game rifle yet. Granted, we have a lot of different african game on exotics ranches down here, but how many really require more than a .358? Even eland- I know earlier I said I wouldn't feel comfortable taking this 1-ton antelope with a .358, but with a 250 grn solid or TSX, it could probably do it. It's all about shot placement. As far as cartridge length, I'm sure there's ways around those difficulties. I do plan on going to africa in the future, but odds are if I ever have the money to go, I'll have the money for the gun to get me there. Also, with the worldwide popularity of the 9.3 caliber, there will be a wide range of mausers in production for a long time that offer this cartridge. With it's increase in popularity over here, we'll probably see more Mauser M03's and such popping up in the US. And I probably won't be polar bear hunting any time soon. At this point, a good lever-gun .358 may be the practical bet by speed alone. Ammo availability is about the same depending on the source. It lacks in effective range when compared to the 9.3 bolt gun, but it shoots plenty good enough for where I'm at. It'd definately be good for pigs. What do ya'll thing?

 

[Maverick223]

I think you're on the right track, but there is honestly nothing wrong with either choice.

 

[Googleplex]

I think you're on the right track, but there is honestly nothing wrong with either choice.

Yeah. And I either way I go, I'm gonna be coming out with a gun I wanted, and still wanting another. It really is just a matter of which one is more suited for my purpose at this point. So I declare my hopefully final flip-flop (I know, I say and then contradict myself- kinda like the president )- I hereby declare the next firearm I shall purchase in a matter of the up-coming months will be a Browning BLR '81 in .358 Winchester. Maybe.

 

[Maverick223]

I hereby declare the next firearm I shall purchase in a matter of the up-coming months will be a Browning BLR '81 in .358 Winchester. Maybe.

At least you know what you want.

JMO, but I think you would be better served with something more diverse than both a .358Win. and 9.3x62mmMauser as they are pretty similar cartridges. If you do end up with a .358Win. first, something like a 9.3x64mmBrenneke, .375H&H, or even a .416Rigby would be far better for that large game hunt and have much less overlap than the 9.3x62mm. I'm not trying to sway your decision, or talk you out of a grand ole cartridge, just looking at things from a practical standpoint.

 

[Googleplex]

At least you know what you want.

JMO, but I think you would be better served with something more diverse than both a .358Win. and 9.3x62mmMauser as they are pretty similar cartridges. If you do end up with a .358Win. first, something like a 9.3x64mmBrenneke, .375H&H, or even a .416Rigby would be far better for that large game hunt and have much less overlap than the 9.3x62mm. I'm not trying to sway your decision, or talk you out of a grand ole cartridge, just looking at things from a practical standpoint.

I've actually thought about the brenneke. If I do get the .358, then that would definately be the smarter choice than the 9.3x62, but is it really any different than the .375? Also, I found a .35 whelen 1895 on G-Broker, and nearly ate my computer. It was $900, so that ain't gonna happen, but I thought it was pretty neat. Who knows, I might make a project rifle out an 1895 reissue someday.

 

[Maverick223]

That's actually not that bad of a deal...if I had the loot ATM I would jump on it and sell my Browning copy 1895 .30-06Spd (the only thing that I don't care for is the tang safety and rebounding hammer...something that the older Brownings, like mine, didn't come equipped with). The conversion costs about $400.00 IIRC, so that adds quite a chunk-o-change to the total...I would probably come out saving a couple hundred in the process.

 

[Googleplex]

That's pretty neat. I would get any 1895 if they were in my price range. But of course I'd have to find one for around $500 if I was to swap the barrel. Those things are just too much for me. How are the new 1895's btw? Winchester has a bad history with some of their post-64 rifles, but I've been hearing good things about model 70's lately. Has winchester been getting back to there former glory?

 

[Maverick223]

How are the new 1895's btw? Winchester has a bad history with some of their post-64 rifles, but I've been hearing good things about model 70's lately. Has winchester been getting back to there former glory?

Don't recall having shot a new Winnie '95, but they are made by Miroku just the same as my Browning...which was shooting MOA or better with a Williams peep and my poor eyesight just last week. It is, however, ammo sensitive...tried shooting some Federal PowerShok and I thought there was something wrong with the rifle, as I was getting 4MOA groups, some Winchester did the trick nicely...almost as good as my handloads.

Now whether Winchester is (or ever will be) as good as the Winchester of old is a hotly debated issue as it is mostly just a name...one that has been sold a couple of times (and is no longer related to the ammunition or accessories company having the same name). The current rifles are made by FN, and IMO are pretty darn nice...in some ways better than the Pre-64s! To put it simply, I think they are one of the nicest rifles on the market right now...the M-70 Featherweight is good enough to be near the top of my list.

 

[Googleplex]

Don't recall having shot a new Winnie '95, but they are made by Miroku just the same as my Browning...which was shooting MOA or better with a Williams peep and my poor eyesight just last week. It is, however, ammo sensitive...tried shooting some Federal PowerShok and I thought there was something wrong with the rifle, as I was getting 4MOA groups, some Winchester did the trick nicely...almost as good as my handloads.

Now whether Winchester is (or ever will be) as good as the Winchester of old is a hotly debated issue as it is mostly just a name...one that has been sold a couple of times (and is no longer related to the ammunition or accessories company having the same name). The current rifles are made by FN, and IMO are pretty darn nice...in some ways better than the Pre-64s! To put it simply, I think they are one of the nicest rifles on the market right now...the M-70 Featherweight is good enough to be near the top of my list.

Ah. It's pretty sad that the company got all split like that. I wonder how they've managed to keep the same trademark. The newer winchesters certainly seem nice. I'd definately not be opposed to trying one out. How much does a Miroku go for?

 

[Maverick223]

It's pretty sad that the company got all split like that. I wonder how they've managed to keep the same trademark.

I agree, but honestly it is probably for the best. IME both their ammunition (made by Olin) and their firearms (by FN) are pretty darn good, that might not be the case otherwise (look at Remington, now owned by Cerberus). They were able to keep the trademark because they sold the individual parts separately, but included the rights to the trademark. The same happened to Rolls Royce years back when their aviation division started to flounder...they sold the whole kit, name and all, but retained the name and infrastructure for the automobile division (which remains separate, but has also been sold several times).

How much does a Miroku go for?

WRT model '95s (Miroku makes several other models), they go for about $1k new, used ranges depending upon the model (there were several, including a few limited editions), condition, and chambering.

 

[Googleplex]

I agree, but honestly it is probably for the best. IME both their ammunition (made by Olin) and their firearms (by FN) are pretty darn good, that might not be the case otherwise (look at Remington, now owned by Cerberus). They were able to keep the trademark because they sold the individual parts separately, but included the rights to the trademark. The same happened to Rolls Royce years back when their aviation division started to flounder...they sold the whole kit, name and all, but retained the name and infrastructure for the automobile division (which remains separate, but has also been sold several times).

I don't know, Remington still has some good products. Granted they're nowhere near what the used to be. The old 700 ADL was a fine little rifle, but they d-cont'ed it back at the turn of the millenium. That was a bad mistake, and they tried to correct it recent years by reissuing the ADL with that cheap plastic crap stock that they made for it, and it just wasn't the same. A lot of people must have felt the same way, because it was gone by the next year. But the CDL, BDL, and other hight end variants are very nice rifles, and the only thing wrog with ADL reissue was the stock, which is a correctable issue. The original trigger systems were problematic, and even dangerous if unkept- or even if it was kept and just extensively used. But they rectified that... 40 years later . I don't feel there is anything wrong with Remington rifles, but they definately aren't like the glory days with 600, 660, 700 ADL, etc., so on, and so forth.
I din't realize winchester rifle were made by FN. When did that start? FN does make some fine products.

... Rolls Royce made aircraft???

 

[Maverick223]

I don't know, Remington still has some good products.

They have some great products, unfortunately their QC/QA is sorely lacking, so they are hit or miss. I have been avoiding newer products from Big Green because of this variance in quality, and poor customer service (making returns a PITA). Unfortunately, recent reports from Marlin (since the recent buy-out by Cerberus) have been similar, so I think I will only buy used Marlins hence-forward as well (at least until, with any luck, things improve). Unfortunate, as both were fantastic firearms manufacturers with excellent CS prior to selling out to a holdings company (which doesn't know a thing about the firearms business...or most anything else).

I din't realize winchester rifle were made by FN. When did that start?

Late 80's IIRC, about the same time they bought out Browning. FWIW the new M-70 (as of about 3yrs. ago) is now made in Columbia, SC...same for the FN SPR series (which are based on the same action).

... Rolls Royce made aircraft???

Not that I know of, but they do have a long history of building aircraft components...mainly engines. IIRC they built the engines for the Spitfires in WWII and continue to build jet engines today (both for the civilian and military markets).

 

[Googleplex]

They have some great products, unfortunately their QC/QA is sorely lacking, so they are hit or miss. I have been avoiding newer products from Big Green because of this variance in quality, and poor customer service (making returns a PITA). Unfortunately, recent reports from Marlin (since the recent buy-out by Cerberus) have been similar, so I think I will only buy used Marlins hence-forward as well (at least until, with any luck, things improve). Unfortunate, as both were fantastic firearms manufacturers with excellent CS prior to selling out to a holdings company (which doesn't know a thing about the firearms business...or most anything else).

Yeah, they do seem to put out more lemons lately. And I have heard their customer service is a joke. I never was big fan of Marlins, ecept for the M94 in .44 mag. Even then I would prefer an 1892 repro. I like the looks of the marlin, they're decent, but quality control is a big issue there. I'd sooner go with a cimmarron 92 repro. I have definately heard Remington's customer service is a joke.

Late 80's IIRC, about the same time they bought out Browning. FWIW the new M-70 (as of about 3yrs. ago) is now made in Columbia, SC...same for the FN SPR series (which are based on the same action).

Ah, that makes sense. It does seem like I heard FN's name mentioned a few times when that plant was closed down a few years back.

Not that I know of, but they do have a long history of building aircraft components...mainly engines. IIRC they built the engines for the Spitfires in WWII and continue to build jet engines today (both for the civilian and military markets).

Huh, that's neat.

 

[TOU]

Googleplex....

I have been holding out on you a bit but just thought I'd jump back in here and give you something tempting to think about as I need to move a few things to cover a new project.

I'm not sure if you are sold completely on wood, FS and a hogs back, but if not...What would you say to a CZ 550 9.3X62 in the rarely seen Kevlar, 24 inch barrel...gun was glass bedded professionally. (Bedding helps accuracy consistency on these rifles...I will get you the name of the smith if interested. It weighs 7 1/2 lbs with a scope...not included) The previous owner bought it new and shot it exactly 37 times by. He worked up a super hunting load...286 grain Partitions at 2440fps into 5/8 inch at 100 yards and had targets to prove it. (yes you get the load data too.) I have never shot it yet. :banghead: This gun was the first of its kind imported into the US but has sat in a safe for more than 2 years. Anyway, the MSRP on these rifles was $1099...if you can find one.

How does $800 sound?...shipped to the lower 48.

Anyway let me know, if interested. I will leave you with a review by Chuck Hawks....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/cz550_american_kevlar.htm

 

[Googleplex]

Googleplex....

I have been holding out on you a bit but just thought I'd jump back in here and give you something tempting to think about as I need to move a few things to cover a new project.

I'm not sure if you are sold completely on wood, FS and a hogs back, but if not...What would you say to a CZ 550 9.3X62 in the rarely seen Kevlar, 24 inch barrel...gun was glass bedded professionally. (Bedding helps accuracy consistency on these rifles...I will get you the name of the smith if interested. It weighs 7 1/2 lbs with a scope...not included) The previous owner bought it new and shot it exactly 37 times by. He worked up a super hunting load...286 grain Partitions at 2440fps into 5/8 inch at 100 yards and had targets to prove it. (yes you get the load data too.) I have never shot it yet. This gun was the first of its kind imported into the US but has sat in a safe for more than 2 years. Anyway, the MSRP on these rifles was $1099...if you can find one.

How does $800 sound?...shipped to the lower 48.

Anyway let me know, if interested. I will leave you with a review by Chuck Hawks....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/cz550_american_kevlar.htm

Hmm.. tempting. But $800 is my absolute maximum at this point. I hate to lowball you, but with some more competatively priced options I probably couldn't do much more than $730 at the most, preferably cheaper, as I've found BLR's in .358 for around $650-$700. At any rate, It'll still be a while before I'm in a position to buy anything. What I've been thinking is buying the BLR .358, and adding maybe a Mauser M03 9.3x62 to my distant future wishlist. Of course, that's an expensive gun, but Africa and Australia are expensive trips, so if in time I can afford the trip, surely in time I can afford the gun. Also, the American Kevlar now runs at $998 msrp, and can be found for $750 on occasion. Also, with a lack of irons it just doesn't suit my taste for a higher caliber rifle. I'm sorry, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.

 

[TOU]

I'm sorry, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.

No worries, just going to list it as I want it gone by the end of the year. BTW, finding this caliber in HS Precision Kevlar...any Kevlar is difficult at best, they just didn't import that many. Best of luck.

 

[TOU]

Posted in the Classifieds for any interested parties.