The 9.3 Dollar Question: Ruger or CZ?

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Weaver, however, I've heard mixed reviews about. On a light kicking gun, it probably wouldn't be a problem, but on this rifle I could foresee a potential issue.
The new Weaver Classic series (both fixed and variable) have been doing pretty well, though the glass isn't quite as nice as I'd like (not bad, but I'm picky). Some of the others aren't as solid.

I have been hearing that they just don't make them like they used to, anymore. This one does seem like a nice one, though.
The VX-II and above are pretty solid scopes, with the VX-3 being the best value (the VX-II lacks in the glass dept. and the ones above the 3-series are grossly overpriced IMO). The Rifleman and VX-I aren't reliable in my experience, so I wouldn't even consider one.

:)
 
The new Weaver Classic series (both fixed and variable) have been doing pretty well, though the glass isn't quite as nice as I'd like (not bad, but I'm picky). Some of the others aren't as solid.

I think I probably should avoid weavers, then With my luck I'll get a lemon. I've had some experience with a VX-II and it was a good scope. If the VX-3 is better, than that oughta be an excellent option. I like the idea of the illuminated reticle. Oughta come in handy if I ever go leopard hunting in the distant future.
 
Ok, I swung by the gun store and picked up the Ruger African on the way to my study group. I'll try to post pics later if I get home at a reasonable hour, but from my initial inspection, it looks awesome. It has a beautiful deep blue, handsome wood and the fit and finish is really good. Also, the express sights are sweet, and the trigger is pretty darn good, perhaps with the slightest bit of creep, but a relatively clean break at about the perfect weight for me (3-4lbs maybe, don't have a scale). Also, it came with a set of substantial looking rings, all in all I'm very happy so far. More to come.

p.s.~ The plot of the Buds gun shop saga thickens, the couple that owns my local gun store said they do a lot of transfers from Buds, and have never had an issue...
 
Check out the review comment. Used on a .458 Win Mag and he likes it. But with only one review...

Wonder why their 30mm is 2.5x the cost of the 1 inch ($770 v. $280)

http://swfa.com/Nikon-1-4x20-Monarch...pe-P42349.aspx

Cool, thanks. I'll check it out.

Ok, I swung by the gun store and picked up the Ruger African on the way to my study group. I'll try to post pics later if I get home at a reasonable hour, but from my initial inspection, it looks awesome. It has a beautiful deep blue, handsome wood and the fit and finish is really good. Also, the express sights are sweet, and the trigger is pretty darn good, perhaps with the slightest bit of creep, but a relatively clean break at about the perfect weight for me (3-4lbs maybe, don't have a scale). Also, it came with a set of substantial looking rings, all in all I'm very happy so far. More to come.

p.s.~ The plot of the Buds gun shop saga thickens, the couple that owns my local gun store said they do a lot of transfers from Buds, and have never had an issue...

All-right! So far so good! I'm anctious to see the pics and report! :)
The issue with Bud's was probably a fluke deal, every dealer has a messup occasionally. But still, it makes me warry. If I was to order from Bud's, I'd be sure to check the shipment regularly and press 'em if I felt things were taking too long. Better safe than sorry.
 
You'll have to forgive the picture quality, I am not a photographer, and my camera is of the "high value" variety...

Prepare for the Wall-O-Pics!

Full rifle + a foot that snuck into the shot.
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Right side of the reciever, showing some pretty wood, also if the metal looks a little dirty, its because I haven't had time to clean the shipping goo off.
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Rear of the stock
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Attempted pic of the express sights
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Left side of the reciever
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Barrel band and sights
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Top shot
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Ruger with some Prvi rounds
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I was trying to show the nice cut checkering in this picture, but the auto-focus had other ideas.
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Like I said in the previous post, I'm really happy with it so far, everything fits together quite well, and you can tell some effort went into the fit and finish. The trigger is, in my opinion, very good, I would say its not quite as good as my Tikkas, but definitely close. The recoil pad tells me that Ruger has great faith in the manly toughness of their customers... while I appreciate the vote of confidence, I may slap a limbsaver on it like all my other heavily recoiling guns..... or maybe not, I'll shoot it before I make that call. The rifle feels good in the hands, kind of slim but substantial, I think it should carry well.

I won't be able to make it to the range to test accuracy anytime soon, but I think i'll take it with me when I slide off to the deer camp next week. After a quick sight-in at 50 yds or so, I have the perfect spot in mind to give it a field test... I'll post results if I get a chance to use it :cool: .
 
You'll have to forgive the picture quality, I am not a photographer, and my camera is of the "high value" variety...

Prepare for the Wall-O-Pics!

Full rifle + a foot that snuck into the shot.


Right side of the reciever, showing some pretty wood, also if the metal looks a little dirty, its because I haven't had time to clean the shipping goo off.


Rear of the stock


Attempted pic of the express sights


Left side of the reciever


Barrel band and sights


Top shot


Ruger with some Prvi rounds





I was trying to show the nice cut checkering in this picture, but the auto-focus had other ideas.


Like I said in the previous post, I'm really happy with it so far, everything fits together quite well, and you can tell some effort went into the fit and finish. The trigger is, in my opinion, very good, I would say its not quite as good as my Tikkas, but definitely close. The recoil pad tells me that Ruger has great faith in the manly toughness of their customers... while I appreciate the vote of confidence, I may slap a limbsaver on it like all my other heavily recoiling guns..... or maybe not, I'll shoot it before I make that call. The rifle feels good in the hands, kind of slim but substantial, I think it should carry well.

I won't be able to make it to the range to test accuracy anytime soon, but I think i'll take it with me when I slide off to the deer camp next week. After a quick sight-in at 50 yds or so, I have the perfect spot in mind to give it a field test... I'll post results if I get a chance to use it .

Those are great pics, beautiful gun! Looking forward to reading the results! I agree on the looks of the recoil pad, they appear a little on the thin side.:) All in all, excellent so far. :D
 
Also, an interesting topic I recently encountered. I don't know how comfortable I would e with doing this- maybe with a 232 grain Norma Vulkan- but apparently lighter 9.3x62 loads are fine for white-tailed deer. It seems awful heavy to me, but when I think about, the 232gr. is similar to lighter .35 whelen loads (from what I hear). Does anyone have any deer experience with this cartridge? My curiousity has been sparked.:scrutiny:
 
As long as you choose a bullet that will expand at fairly slow velocity, is reasonably lightweight (to retain a good short range trajectory), and loaded accordingly, you could easily use it for whitetail. Despite what you often hear, it is high velocity and poor bullet construction (fragmentation) that tears up meat, not large caliber bullets. Want to use something that can take large game without the need for tracking and little waste?...use a good medium or large bore rifle at a modest velocity. That recipe will drop 'em quick (with proper placement) and allow you to eat right up to the hole.

:)
 
As long as you choose a bullet that will expand at fairly slow velocity, is reasonably lightweight (to retain a good short range trajectory), and loaded accordingly, you could easily use it for whitetail. Despite what you often hear, it is high velocity and poor bullet construction (fragmentation) that tears up meat, not large caliber bullets. Want to use something that can take large game without the need for tracking and little waste?...use a good medium or large bore rifle at a modest velocity. That recipe will drop 'em quick (with proper placement) and allow you to eat right up to the hole.

I've heard that. It does make sense, the higher velocities of smaller rounds can cause bullets to explode, shred, fragment, etc. on impact, bludgeoning the meat. My 7mm-08 with barnes TSX bullets is bad about that. I shot a blackbuck ewe with it, and the front shoulders were completely useless :uhoh: (not a big loss on that species, though.) On a white-tail or axis deer, however, that can be be made into hamburger, pan sausage, or chili ground- provided the round doesn't trash the shoulders like the TSX does. I suppose that the 9.3 would be just the ticket to keep that meat intact. I guess I'll have to try it.
 
No personal experience, but I've read that the Speer 270 gr .366 bullet is fairly lightly constructed.... for a 9.3 bullet anyway. The reviews on Midway seem to suggest that it may not be tough enough for the big stuff, but might be just the thing for Deer/Elk, as an added plus its pretty cheap. I've also heard the Prvi 285's expand well, and since i've got those on hand, thats what I'll give a try this up coming Monday and Tuesday. As for meat damage, I try not to shoot for the shoulder if I can help it. With the last deer I shot, at 30 yds with my 270 WSM, the bullet hit a rib right behind the shoulder and came apart... there was minimal meat damage (although the non-edibles were pretty torn up) purely because in that area there wasn't a whole lot of meat to hit. I'm sure If I had nailed the shoulder it would have been a mess though... oh well, lesson learned, time to switch to Accubonds and a heavier weight.

So are you getting closer to picking up your 9.3?
 
No personal experience, but I've read that the Speer 270 gr .366 bullet is fairly lightly constructed.... for a 9.3 bullet anyway. The reviews on Midway seem to suggest that it may not be tough enough for the big stuff, but might be just the thing for Deer/Elk, as an added plus its pretty cheap. I've also heard the Prvi 285's expand well, and since i've got those on hand, thats what I'll give a try this up coming Monday and Tuesday. As for meat damage, I try not to shoot for the shoulder if I can help it. With the last deer I shot, at 30 yds with my 270 WSM, the bullet hit a rib right behind the shoulder and came apart... there was minimal meat damage (although the non-edibles were pretty torn up) purely because in that area there wasn't a whole lot of meat to hit. I'm sure If I had nailed the shoulder it would have been a mess though... oh well, lesson learned, time to switch to Accubonds and a heavier weight.

So are you getting closer to picking up your 9.3?
I'll have to keep an eye on those Speer 270's then. That may be a viable option. I still have a ways to go before I can pick one up, but hopefully it won't be too long. It may be january before I can actually nab me one. I'll be sure to post pics, R. Report, etc. when it comes along, though. How fast does the .270 WSM travel?
 
How fast does the .270 WSM travel?
About 3300fps at muzzle with the standard 130gr. BT (140s & 150s also available but less prevalent). FWIW I wasn't overly impressed with my copy and ended up selling shortly after buying. That said, some folks love theirs.

:)
 
About 3300fps at muzzle with the standard 130gr. BT (140s & 150s also available but less prevalent). FWIW I wasn't overly impressed with my copy and ended up selling shortly after buying. That said, some folks love theirs.

:eek: That seems a little more than necessarry for a .270 caliber rifle. At least for deer. I would imagine it would be great for something like mountain goat or big horn sheep.

Okay folks, a question of practicality: Remember that .358 I mentioned earlier? I was talking to a family member, and he seemed dead set that a .358 would be a smarter choice. His logic was that it could be loaded with lighter .357 magnum bullets for plinking and varmints, that ammo would probably be more available for it (after researching this I found the .358 and 9.3x62 ammo to be equally available), it would be easier to reload for (This point is arguable, but I do have to acknowledge that .308 brass can be necked up to .358 for the cost of a third die. Die prices and availability, however, are roughly the same.), that it would be a better hog gun because the speed of a lever-action rifle should thing get hairy with an angry pig. Also, according to him, it can cover a lot of the smaller animals the 9.3 is too large to take, although the 9.3 has more capability for the top end of the game-size spectrum.
After checking it out, ammo availability is the same. Reloading for each is the same rough cost. The smallest I'd take with the 9.3 is a white-tail with the proper load. The smallest I'd take with a .358 with a 180grn bullet (the smallest I've seen) is a blackbuck. Not much diferrence there in the bottom-spectrum of capable game for each cartridge. With a .358 I'd take all animals up to and including moose and black bear, MAYBE a grizzly if it was the perfect condition for the shot (pssh... that might as well be a no at this point.)
With a 9.3, I'd go grizzly no problem, and then eland. Really, the only things I wouldn't take with a 9.3 are Cape Buffs and up- not that a 9.3 can't do it. With a .358, I'd stop just short of eland, which is the largest african antelope. So there. The two cartridges are capable of taking many of the same animals- the difference is with a .358 I'd feel okay going one animal lighter, and with a 9.3 I'd feel okay going two to three animals heavier (Grizz, Polar bear, and eland. The only two north american animals and the only african antelope that I would not use a .358 on). The difference is only a few animals, but then there is also effective range- a .358 is a great deer rifle at 200 yards, with most people passing on anything at 250 yards. Reloaders claim this to be 300-350 yard capable rifle. A 9.3, most people are comfortable out 350 yards, while reloaders will often push that figure a little. So the 9.3 wins the range contest. The .358, however, wins the speed contest, being a fast lever-gun- also, it reloads faster because of a Detachable mag. Each rifle has its own benefit, and the cost difference isn't much. Though I have found BLR's for low prices used. But that's used, and it makes me nervous.

It's a long question, and I'm still leaning 9.3 at the end of asking it. But what do you guys think? That speed in a hog hunt can sure be handy, but an eland sure is a neat animal. And like a mentioned in a previous post, I do plan to own both eventually- (that may be years down the road, though.) So in essence, which is a better starting point?
 
Yeah, my 270 WSM with that load was pushing 3300, I really should have been using premium bonded bullets. I bought the WSM rationalizing that it would be my long range rifle, and wouldn't you know, the first shot I had with it could have been accomplished with a spear... Personally, I really like the 270 short mag, but different strokes for different folks.

I actually sold a 35 Whelen (which is a step up from the .358) to buy my 9.3. Personally, I'm not terribly interested in the .358, mostly because its in the same power/game level as other deer cartridges, such as the 30-06, 7 mag and 338 federal. I decided on 9.3 because it was a step or two up and the deer rifles I already have are more than adequate for anything in that game category. Also, the 9.3x62 is kind of an oddball caliber here in the use, but has the backing of 100 years of hard use around the world. By they way, I think it will be a lot easier to find 9.3x62 ammo, Midway shows 4 different .358 loads (3 by Double Tap and one by Buffalo Bore), and 15 9.3 loads.... I can definitely see the pluses of a light kicking medium bore in a short light rifle, but I think I would look at the .338 before the rarer .358 purely based on availability and ammo/component price. By the way, I know some folks load .357 bullets in the 35 whelen and 358, but I guess I never had the urge. I have other rifles to shoot lighter bullets faster and more accurately, when the 35 (or 9.3) comes out, its time to toss some lead.
 
I actually sold a 35 Whelen (which is a step up from the .358) to buy my 9.3. Personally, I'm not terribly interested in the .358, mostly because its in the same power/game level as other deer cartridges, such as the 30-06, 7 mag and 338 federal. I decided on 9.3 because it was a step or two up and the deer rifles I already have are more than adequate for anything in that game category. Also, the 9.3x62 is kind of an oddball caliber here in the use, but has the backing of 100 years of hard use around the world. By they way, I think it will be a lot easier to find 9.3x62 ammo, Midway shows 4 different .358 loads (3 by Double Tap and one by Buffalo Bore), and 15 9.3 loads.... I can definitely see the pluses of a light kicking medium bore in a short light rifle, but I think I would look at the .338 before the rarer .358 purely based on availability and ammo/component price. By the way, I know some folks load .357 bullets in the 35 whelen and 358, but I guess I never had the urge. I have other rifles to shoot lighter bullets faster and more accurately, when the 35 (or 9.3) comes out, its time to toss some lead.

You have a point. In all honesty, the whole .357 bullet thing doesn't interest me much, either. It would make the rifle fun to plink with, but as for any hunting application, it doesn't seems like it would do anything my .22 couldn't. Except for maybe coyotes, but you don't eat those, so what does it really matter what you kill them with?:rolleyes: And in all honesty, that's a lot of powder to burn just to plink. The .357 thing is really a moot point- just not all that practical. At least that's the way I see it.
As for ammo, reloading, etc., the 9.3 has more pre-loaded available online, but the .358 has been found at the local gun store in the past - not often, though, so that's moot too. Reloading, probably about equal. Except for the fact that the CZ is far less limited in overall catridge length than the BLR is. Effective range is another plus to go to the 9.3. Recoil, both have it. The 9.3 has more, but from what I hear both cartridges are just a stiff push, so that point doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me. At least not untill I shoot it ;). I hear recoil is very tolerable for both. Wider range of available target species? That actually goes to the 9.3. That's not what my brother was thinking, but that's the way I see it. Gun prices? Ammo prices? Etc, so on, and so forth? All equal in rough terms. Speed? That's where the BLR's short bolt and lever-action cuts ahead. All in all, the 9.3 seems to be the more practical choice at this point, though either would be excellent. I don't foresee the .358 BLR going anywhere soon, that's one of Browning's hot sellers. I better act fast, though, if I want to get the CZ for cheap. Few places offer it for under $800, and believe it or not, many don't even offer it at less than MSRP. :scrutiny: What's up with that!?:cuss:
 
Okay folks, a question of practicality: Remember that .358 I mentioned earlier? I was talking to a family member, and he seemed dead set that a .358 would be a smarter choice. His logic was that it could be loaded with lighter .357 magnum bullets for plinking and varmints, that ammo would probably be more available for it (after researching this I found the .358 and 9.3x62 ammo to be equally available), it would be easier to reload for (This point is arguable, but I do have to acknowledge that .308 brass can be necked up to .358 for the cost of a third die.
That is precisely my logic for rechambering my 1895 in .35Whelen. The ability to load it light (with fluffy TrailBoss and .357cal. pistol bullets) for plinking as well as heavy for the big stuff. Makes for a very affordable (for the handloader) and versatile chambering.

It's a long question, and I'm still leaning 9.3 at the end of asking it. But what do you guys think? That speed in a hog hunt can sure be handy, but an eland sure is a neat animal. And like a mentioned in a previous post, I do plan to own both eventually- (that may be years down the road, though.) So in essence, which is a better starting point?
Personally neither are my favorite chambering, but between the two, I like the .358Win. much better. FWIW I like the .35Whelen better than either, and it darn near matches the 9.3x62mmMauser (while adding greater versatility).

Very true, but I would imagine that fast .270 WSM can reach out a ways. If hunting in a mountainous area for sure-footed game that rarely presents a shot under 300 yards, that WSM would be just the ticket.
The problem with a .277 caliber cartridge (most any) is the BC, if someone would make a decent streamlined bullet for it I would like the caliber a great deal more. Until then, a 7mm will start off just as fast, with as much energy and retain both better due to the superior BC. More importantly it will do so with less elevation adjustment whilst bucking the wind better.

And in all honesty, that's a lot of powder to burn just to plink.
That's why you fill-er-up with trailboss!

:)
 
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The problem with a .277 caliber cartridge (most any) is the BC, if someone would make a decent streamlined bullet for it I would like the caliber a great deal more. Until then, a 7mm will start off just as fast, with as much energy and retain both better due to the superior BC. More importantly it will do so with less elevation adjustment whilst bucking the wind better.

Really? I've always hear that when comparing the .270 win to the .280 rem, the .270 shoots slightly flatter of a longer distance. I know that varries somewhat between rifles, though. The only .280 I've really been around was Remington 7600 pump. Not a tight locker like a bolt gun.
 
Really? I've always hear that when comparing the .270 win to the .280 rem, the .270 shoots slightly flatter of a longer distance.
The .280Rem. actually has a better trajectory, the problem is loading. The .270Win. (primarily loaded for various bolt rifles) is loaded pretty stout, whereas the .280Rem. (loaded for the weaker Rem. 760 series) is loaded quite a bit lighter. Using equal loads/bbl length/et cetera the .280Rem. is noticeably flatter due to the better BC with .284/7mm projectiles. The 7mmWSM (a better example) exhibits the same results.

:)
 
That is precisely my logic for rechambering my 1895 in .35Whelen. The ability to load it light (with fluffy TrailBoss and .357cal. pistol bullets) for plinking as well as heavy for the big stuff. Makes for a very affordable (for the handloader) and versatile chambering.

I don't know, I'm just one of those people who for whatever reason can't seem to get into the .35 Whelen. In an 1895, it'd be cool, but anything else wouldn't do it for me. I guess I'm just one of those people who gets into .35 only in lever guns. If Winchester put out a stock .35 Whelen 1895, I'd probably have to pick my tongue up off the floor with a shovel, but until then, I don't know. The BLR .358 would be a perfect brush gun/200 yd. and closer rifle for most any animal in North America. The 9.3 could do that and more. But it's not quite as fast, and I'd probably have a hard time with any dings that would end up on the stock. Dad gummit, just when I think I get it figured out, I talk myself back into limbo.:banghead:
 
The .280Rem. actually has a better trajectory, the problem is loading. The .270Win. (primarily loaded for various bolt rifles) is loaded pretty stout, whereas the .280Rem. (loaded for the weaker Rem. 760 series) is loaded quite a bit lighter. Using equal loads/bbl length/et cetera the .280Rem. is noticeably flatter due to the better BC with .284/7mm projectiles. The 7mmWSM (a better example) exhibits the same results.
Huh, I'll have to check that out. I may look at a 7 WSM way far down the road. I'm not worried about long range sheep guns yet, I have to shoot one of everything else in the world first.:D
 
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