The amazing .45 auto

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BowStreetRunner

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Like many people, I love the .45 auto.....its big, the recoil feels right, and John Browning's 1911 .45 auto design is timeless
but the round isnt perfect, check this out....its from Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow

"The rooming house residents had been arguing all day. Finally, two of them had traded blows and vowed to go get their guns. They met in the hallway. One was armed with a Government Model Colt loaded with hardball while the other had a cheap .22 caliber revolver. Our .45 lover laughed and opened fire. After he emptied the gun, he looked in amazement as the .22 carrier pointed his small revolver at his chest and fired once. The auto dropped from his hands as he died.
The .22 carrier went into his room, changed clothes, and took two different buses to the hospital, where the doctors removed seven rounds of .45 ball from his chest."

There is a lesson to be had
BSR
 
Gudel

The original piece appeared in handgun Stopping Power: The Definitive Study by Evan Marshall and Edwin Sanow....published in 1992
i dont know if anything related to it is online.....i am reading the book for a class paper and the blurb about the story is all the book says about the incident....the book does include many short descriptions of incidents related to calibers from .32 auto to .45 long colt.....The authors arent out to bash the.45, right before the story one of them states he has carried one.....he just doesnt like how some people regard the round as a cure for all handgun ills
BSR
 
due to the fact that children may be present i will conduct myself accordingly and state the obvious.
"BIG STEAMING STEER PUCKS!"
 
www.thisisbs.com

I agree with cohiba........at the length of a hall way, they would be removing the ball ammo from the wall behind him, not from him
 
I shot a deer with a 45 acp, 230 grain Hydrashock, distance was 30 yards with a very competent rifleman backing me up. If the deer moved he was to level it with a rifle. I shot the deer, a 3x3 mule deer buck running about 220 pounds live weight in the base of the neck. It dropped and I have a whole lot of respect for the old crappy no good everybody hates me 45 ACP. I know it was not ball ammo like the story, but man if you had seen the exit hole the opinion would be different. Blew my mind how big an exit wound it left. You could have dropped a grapefruit in the hole and only had an inch of it sticking above the skin. That little buck never quivered, just dead.

Edit, deer was standing still, its weight was running:D .
 
Frohickey, you carry a .22LR, then? Okay, that was extreme. If you carry anything larger than a 9mm though I'm going to have to wonder. ESPECIALLY if it's a .40. .45, I can see, if you like 1911s. But virtually every .40 gun is available in a 9mm version as well, and ammo is cheaper and there's less recoil and shot placement is all that matters and blah blah blah. :p

I also must disagree with the assertion that hollow point ammo always makes all the difference, and FMJ rounds are impotent and useless. Plenty of people have died from non-expanding bullets.

Also, I take ANYTHING M&S say with a big sack of salt. Anybody who claims to be able to predict to a percentile the chance that a round, hitting somebody somehwere in the torso, will incapacitate them, NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the HUNDREDS of variables involved, such as personal dexterity, bullet point of entry/exit, range, depth of penetration, etc., is NOT doing any semblance of scientific research.
 
here we go AGAIN.

Why can't we just let this dead horse DIE!!!!

And the 9mm is a bad round because of the famous FBI shootout.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I hate to be the naysayer, but I don't buy that a person dressed appropriately for being inside a house, could take several round of 45 ball and have several of them remain in his person. I just don't believe it. I call complete BS on the story. Not saying Marshall is lying because he probably isn't, but someone is.

I'm not a Marshall & Sanow hater. I read their stuff but it's more for entertainment and later conversation rather than the absolute be all end all recommendation on caliber or load.

I will say that Hornady XTPs are excellent hunting bullets. Gold Dots and Rangers seem to be the best bullets at reliable expansion. HydraShoks expand less reliably but nearly always provide adequate penetration.
 
Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement.

At one time I worked in the main OR. Seen dead from small calibers.We also had "walk-ins" from larger. Meaning ,some from larger calibers made it in /not always left. Most times- usually not. Granted the last one was shot by both 9mm and 45ACP and high as a kite. Body dumped at our front door by his-ahem "friends". Big ol boy, 6'4" had to weigh 300+ #. The one 45 ACP bullet was actually hard to see -entered under armpit...too much damage, not enough time. The three 9's had hit arm,and both legs.
--
Then again we prepped for a GSV, victim DOA'd, The 22lr from a Taurus semi, hit the inferior vena cava. from a distance of~ 5 ft, we were told.

I watched when they did the organ harvests. Educational.

Shot Placement
 
I heard about a guy who took 6 .45acps in the chest, and then successfully ran a full 26 mile marathon.
 
I read that book cover to cover until I got sick of it... I don't recall reading about that particular shooting. Post the page number that you read that on if you don't mind.
Thanks.
 
Snowdog, page 94 in my edition.

BowStreetRunner, M&S's articles and books are interesting reading, but have some serious flaws. We thrashed this one to death on TFL and some quick use of the search engine there will give you hours of reading.

In a nutshell, the math dosen't work, very few of the "incidents" can be verified by a 3rd party and M&S consistently fail to back up their claims.

On the other paw, I find that the introduction and Chapter one in the book are very well done.
 
2 weeks ago we had an AD in a trailer involving a 45 HB fired out of a , GASP, glock.
the shooter was sitting on the couch and racked the slide as he pulled the trigger. the victim was standing a few feet away and took the rd in the shoulder. the bullet entered the outside back portion of his left shoulder, struck the shoulder bones bounced downward through the liung and various organs coming to rest when it struck the hip bone.
the guy lived but the damage to his shouder was so severe that his arm was removed.
i dont care what anybody else wants to tote. your life, your choice. i'm not gonna waste my time arguing for the 45ACP. if you havent figured out the obvious then my logic wont convince you. my logic is this...
IF i were standing on a RR track and a frieght train was closing in on my and my only choice other than being hit by the train were to jump in front of a fast moving ferarri what do you think i'd do?
 
I've read enough believable stories of people getting shot with 12 ga buck, .357s and rifles to believe that no gun can guarantee 100% stops (well mabe a .50 cal or a 155). I train myself with failure drills etc because i assume that a single round or two WON'T stop the badguy, if it does i'll be pleasantly surprised:) . I try to have handy the most effective caliber i can in order to maximize my odds, but they are odds not 100% certainty.

I've read of big (like +300lbs) guys with lots of fat and muscle taking COM hits that did not penetrate to anything vital, i've read of odd things bullets do when someone is hit in the head sometimes. Since no cartridge is 100% then obviously there are some wierd and true stories out there for the few percenters.
 
I train myself with failure drills etc because i assume that a single round or two WON'T stop the badguy, if it does i'll be pleasantly surprised
Click to expand...

I'll never know if one shot will do the job. In the second it takes me to assess my assailants condition, I'll have dumped at least 4 rounds :) .
 
The .22 carrier went into his room, changed clothes, and took two different buses to the hospital, where the doctors removed seven rounds of .45 ball from his chest
Click to expand...

LOL @ walking away with 7 center of mass shots of ball in the chest.

OORAH. I'm gonna fill my HPs with kryptonite.
 
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