The Anti-Gun Male

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redsaber75

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I'm not sure if this has been posted before but it's a great article.

The Anti-gun Male

By

Julia Gorin
As published at JewishWorldReview.com

LET'S be honest. He's scared of the thing. That's understandable --
so am I. But as a girl I have the luxury of being able to admit it. I
don't have to masquerade squeamishness as grand principle-in the
interest of mankind, no less.

A man does. He has to say things like "One Taniqua Hall is one too
many," as a New York radio talk show host did in referring to the
9-year old New York girl who was accidentally shot last year by her
12-year old cousin playing with his uncle's gun. But the truth is he
desperately needs Taniqua Hall, just like he needs as many Columbines
and Santees as can be mustered, until they spell an end to the Second
Amendment. And not for the benefit of the masses, but for the benefit
of his self-esteem.

He often accuses men with guns of "compensating for something." The
truth is quite the reverse. After all, how is he supposed to feel
knowing there are men out there who aren't intimidated by the big bad
inanimate villain? How is he to feel in the face of adolescent boys
who have used the family gun effectively in defending the family from
an armed intruder? So if he can't touch a gun, he doesn't want other
men to be able to either. And to achieve his ends, he'll use the only
weapon he knows how to manipulate: the law.

Of course, sexual and psychological insecurities don't account for
ALL men against guns. Certainly there must be some whose motives are
pure, who perhaps do care so much as to tirelessly look for policy
solutions to teenage void and aggressiveness, and to parent and
teacher negligence. But for a potentially large underlying
contributor, psycho-sexual inadequacy has gone unexplored and
unacknowledged. It's one thing to not be comfortable with a firearm
and therefore opt to not keep or bear one. But it's another to impose
the same handicap onto others.

People are suspicious of what they do not know -- and not only does
this man not know how to use a gun, he doesn't know the men who do,
or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend
themselves from injury or death. But he is better left in the dark;
his life is hard enough knowing there are men out there who don't sit
cross-legged. That they're able to handle a firearm instead of being
handled by it would be too much to bear.

Such a man is also best kept huddled in urban centers, where he feels
safer than he might if thrown out on his own into a rural setting, in
an isolated house on a quiet street where he would feel naked and
helpless. Lacking the confidence that would permit him to be
sequestered in sparseness, and lacking a gun, he finds comfort in the
cloister of crowds.

The very ownership of a gun for defense of home and family implies
some assertiveness and a certain self-reliance. But if our man kept a
gun in the house, and an intruder broke in and started attacking his
wife in front of him, he wouldn't be able to later say, "He had a
knife -- there was nothing I could do!" Passively watching in horror
while already trying to make peace with the violent act, scheduling a
therapy session and forgiving the perpetrator before the attack is
even finished wouldn't be the option it otherwise is.

No. Better to emasculate all men. Because let's face it: He's a
lover, not a fighter. And he doesn't want to get shot in case he has
an affair with your wife.

Of course, it wouldn't be completely honest not to admit that owning
a firearm carries with it some risk to unintended targets. That's the
tradeoff with a gun: The right to defend one's life and way of life
isn't without peril to oneself. And the last thing this man wants to
do is risk his life -- if even to save it. For he is guided by a
dread fear for his life, and has more confidence in almost anyone
else's ability to protect him than his own, preferring to place
himself at the mercy of the villain or in the sporadically competent
hands of authorities (his line of defense consisting of locks, alarm
systems, reasoning with the attacker, calling the police or, should
fighting back occur to him, thrashing a heavy vase).

In short, he is a man begging for subjugation. He longs for its
promise of equality in helplessness. Because only when that strange,
independent alpha breed of male is helpless along with him will he
feel adequate. Indeed, his freedom lies in this other man's
containment.
 
People are suspicious of what they do not know -- and not only does
this man not know how to use a gun, he doesn't know the men who do,
or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend
themselves from injury or death.

I think that line is probably the most accurate. I think this is where we need to try and make in roads. It's normal for a human being to fear that which they don't understand. And not knowing how often someone is saved by a gun. It's the fear and ignorance factor. Introducing them and removing that fear will do wonders. It may not make avid shooters or 2A activists, but it may just be one more person not working against us and voting for something they don't understand out of fear of the unknown.
 
Gorin has a regular column on jewishworldreview.com. I look her up every now and then when I want to read something that makes sense.
 
Guns used in self-defense...

..."or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend
themselves from injury or death. "

I agree this is something that we need to communicate more and better; the question is, where does one find the best estimate of this number? It seems like the quoted number varies among sources.

Michael
 
I agree this is something that we need to communicate more and better; the question is, where does one find the best estimate of this number? It seems like the quoted number varies among sources.

The number does vary simply because there is no one definitive source from which to gather this information. There are studies and some reports, but they are not all-encompassing nor do they focus on DGUs.

I think it was said best by quote I recall from the early days of CCW in one of the mid-South states. The Sheriff/COP was asked about how many people defended themselves with a firearm and he reponded something to the effect that" We don't know because we have no way to record them.".

Imagine a criminal attack on a innocent victim. The victim uses a firearm to defend themselves and in the end the police are called. They will record in their statistics that a person was attacked, and how. But where is the little box to check and record that the victim resisted? And how they resisted? If the attacker is killed, that fact will be reported plus how they died. But no where will it be recorded and tabulated that the victim resisted and successfully defended themselves with a firearm. A newspaper story "may" mention that but now all you have is one piece of anecdotal evidence.

So you need to be prepared to quote several different sources, not so much to prove a number, but to prove that it does happen.
 
at least there's someone else out there that listens to NPR.
Hey! I too listen to NPR. I love car talk and Prairie Home, and Echoes... As Lefty as they might be, I try to be open enough to muster up some entertainment value out of them. I go for long car rides sometimes, and I hate commercial radio.
 
They will record in their statistics that a person was attacked, and how. But where is the little box to check and record that the victim resisted? And how they resisted? If the attacker is killed, that fact will be reported plus how they died. But no where will it be recorded and tabulated that the victim resisted and successfully defended themselves with a firearm. A newspaper story "may" mention that but now all you have is one piece of anecdotal evidence.

Damn, there was an article recently where an anti got caught red-handed manipulating numbers and listing "criminals-killed-by-victims-who-defended-themselves" as "homicide" in order to pad his anti-gun numbers. Now I can't find it. I'll keep looking and if I find it I'll post.
:banghead:
 
Lott has some figures as does Kopel They are kind of wide educated guesses though. The archbishop of the st. louis diocese summed up the anti gun position when he said " an orderly society is more important that an individual's survival."
 
One part particuilarly struck me as important. When she was writing about the percieved sense of security in a crowded area, I thought about how untrue his expectation really is.

The idea that he is safer when surrounded stems from the assumption that somebody would help, as opposed to a rural setting in which he is alone. However he would not recieve help if they are anything like him, because they too wish to be helped. And in what seems to be the majority of cases, victims do not recieve any meaningful assistance.

In reality the inverse is likly true. Regardless of whether urban envioments encourage criminal behavior, the increased population density raises the liklihood of confronting "unsavory" characters.
 
The archbishop of the st. louis diocese summed up the anti gun position when he said " an orderly society is more important that an individual's survival."

Good G-d that's terrifying. I wonder if he issues out arm-bands too?
 
Oh boy...

I sent the article to my best friend in NYC. He replied :banghead:

I feel bad posting his reply (don't want to violate his trust, so if you ever see this dood, forgive me), but I want to share some points of view from the other side of the fence... which BTW I can't comprehend.

To me, it's victim mentality and fear of responsibility (and I told him that to his face, so I can say it now).

Here it is. Flame away!

Wow, what an ego stroker for you. This lady is calling gun lovers alpha males. Are you sending this to me because you think that my lack of understanding of guns makes me afraid of them? You seem to forget that the reason I don't like them is BECAUSE I have used them. BECAUSE I have seen how quickly a life-taking projectile can travel through the air and into any random person in the way. You are deluding yourself if you think you're going to be able to defend your home against armed assailants who have not only the element of surprise on their side, but will also be more desperate than you. You want to flood the market with guns for everyone, and interestingly this might reduce the number of abusers somewhat. I know in Europe that by lowering the drinking age they actually decreased alcoholism, since society actually evened itself out after a little while. Now drinking is easily accessible to people, so they have a new responsibility to mind. Mutually Assured Destruction during the cold war prevented a nuclear holocaust, which was nice. So why don't we give nuclear weapons to everyone? Wouldn't it make things more stable if there was even more Mutually Assured Destruction? Why is everyone so worried about Iran and North Korea getting nuclear weapons? They're people too, and people are responsible!

I don't like the idea of nuclear proliferation for the same reason that I don't like the idea of everyone running around with CCW. It doesn't take long for a nuke to torch a country, and there is very little that an active defense network (satellite missiles, star wars, etc) can do to stop it. It takes even less time for a bullet from a random gun to kill me for no good reason. Even if I were carrying a gun, getting shot by surprise in the back of the head kinda prevents me from using it.
Mutually Assured Destruction only prevents rationally thinking, future-considerate entities from killing each other. Religious extremists think that killing people would be the work of god so that scares the crap out of us because they seem irrational. A robber scares us because he is willing to kill us for what we have in our pockets. This seems irrational. I don't want to give the tools for extremely effective killing to irrational people. I can't safely defend myself or the people I care about from that many threats.

You can't make getting a gun easier without making it easier for everyone to get one, since the black market will then have even more sources. Regulations only restrict those who obey laws. You got that right. But you say it's easy for people to get black market guns. Do you honestly think there will be less guns being sold from the backs of cars if there are more legal, easily obtained guns in the market?

It's like manufacturing ten thousand nukes, storing them each at seperate facilities and hoping none of them get stolen. The safer alternative would be to manufacture fewer nukes, make them harder to get and try to make sure only responsible people own them. That's why I'm in favor of gun regulation, not abolition. If the US had no nukes we'd be sitting ducks. Just like a rich homeowner without a bodygaurd is similarly vulnerable. He should have the means to legally defend himself, and he does. I don't agree with all gun regulations. The one about keeping your ammo seperate and keeping your gun locked in a box... pretty dumb. But I do like mandatory background checks, wait periods, no fully automatics, regular inspections of registered weapons. I feel that those regulations will keep guns in responsible hands and out of the trunks of cars. I feel like gun collecting only makes as much sense as nuke collecting, since you're putting an arsenal at risk for theft. A man only has two hands. He won't need 35 different assault rifles. That seems like common sense to me.

The article did ring with some truth since gun ownership is not a responsibility I want to deal with. I also don't want to be mayor, be a cop, or a supreme court judge. Why should we force very extreme responsibilities on people? Why should we prevent people who do want and can handle the responsibility from having it? The problem is that we can't have both. If some people make themselves mayor then all people have to be mayor. Responsibility is a scary thing when you take it seriously. I would not sleep better at night with a gun under my pillow. I would sleep worse since it would remind me of the potential intruders that I have to always defend against. Personally I'd rather just get robbed and compensated by homeowner's insurance than have to gun down some dumb kid who doesn't know better than to break into random houses. I would prefer to not have to kill people. It kinda scares me that you're so eager to kill people. It scares me more that there are so many more that would eagerly kill an intruder, armed or not, and then sleep fine afterward. I don't think many gun owners understand the magnitude of taking someone's life away from them. That doesn't mean we should take their guns away, but it does not bring me comfort about the average person being armed. Therefore I would prefer to not foist such responsibilities on everyone I've ever met.

You know, if someone was attacking me with a knife I would fight them butt naked if I had to. I don't need a gun for a dealing with a knife-armed opponent. Knives don't kill nearly as easily or as reliably. When was the last stabbing death you heard of? Guns though.... if someone was attacking me with a gun and I had a gun, there's no telling what might happen. That's what I worry about. Easily obtained guns getting into the hands of criminals who then force me to escalate and build an arsenal and spend my money on something I didn't want to have to buy or deal with. So screw that. I'm going to vote for legislation that makes guns harder to get for everyone. Legal gun owners can still eventually get them, but I'm not going to make it easy for some thug to kill me. You don't fight against nukes with satellite missiles. You build the CIA and the KGB. You use more effective tools that better reduce probability.
 
Knives don't kill nearly as easily or as reliably. When was the last stabbing death you heard of? Guns though.... if someone was attacking me with a gun and I had a gun, there's no telling what might happen.
Mike? Mike Bloomberg, is that you?:D

All kidding aside, a quick search on Google for "stabbing deaths NYC" gave this:
1st 4 results, recent stabbing homicides in the NYC or Greater NYC Area.
5th result: An old stabbing death, it's true, but also part of the reason not to count on neighbors or police for immediate help (no offense intended to LEOs; you guys do the best you can with the information, equipment, and manpower you have).
Kitty G's story. A stabbing death in NYC
Better a .38 at your side than a "five-oh" on the way. And, I should add, both of those combined together are the best.
 
So this friend lives in NYC? Good thing. Let him stay there. His drivel equating gun ownership with nuclear proliferation was rather amusing, though.
 
go_bang

go_bang,
but it's so sad. he's a well educated (2 degrees) young man!
you would think they would know better!
but no, somehow, some people, think they know better what's good for all of us... damn socialists!
 
The archbishop of the st. louis diocese summed up the anti gun position when he said " an orderly society is more important that an individual's survival."
-- Good G-d that's terrifying. I wonder if he issues out arm-bands too?

Interesting, but not in the least bit surprising.

Protestantism was the beginning of libertarianism.

John Wycliffe, Jan Hus and Martin Luther were all champions of the individual, aginst the authoritarian (and brutal) Roman Catholic Church. Hus was burned alive, Wycliffe's bones and books were burned after his death. Luther was driven into hiding, though he was able to emerge when his movement finally proved too powerful for the church to destroy.

Their primary doctrine was that each person must receive salvation directly from God, not by doing as they were told by the church heirarchy, and each strove to distribute the Bible in the vernacular language, so each person could read it or hear it. Luther even speaks very specifically of the "freedom" and "liberty" of the Christian.

Western concepts of individual freedom generally emerge not from Roman Catholic doctrine, but from Protestant theology and the philosophy it influenced.
 
You know, if someone was attacking me with a knife I would fight them butt naked if I had to.
Having a bit of experience in FMA with knives and sticks, if given the choice, I would much rather fight with sticks than with knives. Much too easy to get lucky with a knife. Sticks require more skill.

While I've never been stabbed, and I suspect few in here have, talking with folks who've been both stabbed and shot they didn't much care for either.

I don't need a gun for a dealing with a knife-armed opponent.
The folly of the uninformed.

Knives don't kill nearly as easily or as reliably.
While it is true that more people are murdered with handguns than with knives, that does not prove knives are either less reliable or less easy to use.

When was the last stabbing death you heard of?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/weaponstab.htm
Over 2,100 in 2004.

Guns though.... if someone was attacking me with a gun and I had a gun, there's no telling what might happen.
If one has the stones to fight against a knife while unarmed, but one isn't willing to fight against a gun while armed, then one is either stupid or suffering from an irrational fear of certain weapons.

Legal gun owners can still eventually get them, but I'm not going to make it easy for some thug to kill me.
The folly that restrictive gun laws in any way make it more difficult for criminals.
 
ok ok . . .

so I flamed NPR....I wouldn't know if I didnt listen! Actually I listen a great deal and in particular enjoy the morning news shows which make all other options pale. I, personally, being a more critical fellow do enjoy hearing all sides (even if its for strategic debate purposes). I guess the thing I have laughed about all these years, and even this morning on the way to work...is that it seems to me that very few of the men who speak on news articles or do interviews sound like they have passed puberty. There is a certain femininity to the speakers which I have noticed, and I can't help but wonder what those same stories would sound like from the perspective of someone who hunts, shoots, trains, was in the military, or likes to wrestle. There are exceptions to all rules it seems so don't take this too seriously. Just an observation. . . when I listen to them I get a flash of what the feminists seem to want in every man in America; soft, observant, oversensitive, politically correct, a good follower, aghast at initiative and tragedy alike. Thank God the revolutionary members of our early republic knew the pelasure of a good smoke, a day in the woods, the feel of a fine rifle, the love of a woman, and the true blessing of freedom!
ST
 
go_bang,
but it's so sad. he's a well educated (2 degrees) young man!
you would think they would know better!
but no, somehow, some people, think they know better what's good for all of us... damn socialists!

Yes, well I think I can say with much certainty that academic degrees rarely relate to a person's level of common sense or maturity.

You're friend's arguements are so circular and uninformed that I couldn't stand to read the whole thing. It started making me dizzy.

I applaud your efforts for trying to make him see the light, but I fear that with this guy you're just throwing your pearls to swine. If he ever has to truly defend himself bare-handed against an attacker with a knife I'm sure his attitude on guns will change. If he survives the incident, that is.
 
Wow armedpolak, that's quite a letter from your friend. Too bad it's full of "straw man" arguments, invalid logic, denial, and victim mentality. Just a few of the highlights...

You are deluding yourself if you think you're going to be able to defend your home against armed assailants who have not only the element of surprise on their side, but will also be more desperate than you.

I doubt anyone is more desperate than a homeowner who is defending their home and family against an invader of any sort. ESPECIALLY if that defender is a new mother!

Mutually Assured Destruction during the cold war prevented a nuclear holocaust, which was nice. So why don't we give nuclear weapons to everyone? Wouldn't it make things more stable if there was even more Mutually Assured Destruction?

I believe that any attempt to equate gun ownership to nuclear weapons is the start of a huge "straw man" argument. Any part of this letter that tries to equate the two is therefore automatically invalid as an argument.

A robber scares us because he is willing to kill us for what we have in our pockets. This seems irrational. I don't want to give the tools for extremely effective killing to irrational people.

Misplaced responsibility, concern about the tools when the real trouble is the irrational robber. Take away the tool (if you can) and most criminals will find another and do it again. Remove the criminal from the equation and the crime stops.

I feel like gun collecting only makes as much sense as nuke collecting, since you're putting an arsenal at risk for theft.

Ignoring the "straw man" nuke comparison, this is faulty problem ownership. The letter writer is trying to place the fault for a crime on the gun collector (pursuing a legal hobby) when they should be placing the fault on the criminal who is breaking the law. If you follow their logic to it's conclusion then the theft of any item from a home is the fault of the homeowner for collecting valuables in one spot and not turning their home into a fortification to “secure” them.

gun ownership is not a responsibility I want to deal with. I also don't want to be mayor, be a cop, or a supreme court judge. Why should we force very extreme responsibilities on people? Why should we prevent people who do want and can handle the responsibility from having it? The problem is that we can't have both. If some people make themselves mayor then all people have to be mayor.

More faulty logic. Nobody is advocating a mandatory gun ownership program. The point to the article was that those who don't want guns shouldn't take it upon themselves to make the choice for those of us who do want guns.

Personally I'd rather just get robbed and compensated by homeowner's insurance than have to gun down some dumb kid who doesn't know better than to break into random houses.

The first part is simply Naiveté. I've NEVER met anyone who has actually been robbed who still says that. As for the second part, the letter writer is again misplacing responsibility and making excuses for the criminal. People engaging in criminal behavior (especially B&E) have made a choice. They don't "accidentally" find themselves in your house with a bagfull of your stuff.

I don't need a gun for a dealing with a knife-armed opponent. Knives don't kill nearly as easily or as reliably. When was the last stabbing death you heard of?

Again, I don't know this person but I really have to wonder if they've every actually been in an encounter with a knife wielding person. I have and still have the scars to show for it. As for stabbing deaths, happens all the time here in DC but knives don’t have the political ‘verve’ that guns do so the press doesn’t play it up. Finally, even if we take it as given that the letter writer doesn't need a gun against a knifeman, the same doesn't hold true for my wife or my mother so they should have the option to carry.

I'm going to vote for legislation that makes guns harder to get for everyone.

Actually you will vote for legislation that makes it harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to get guns. The criminals will simply continue to ignore the laws when they feel like it, thus the label CRIMINAL. It's too bad the letter writer can't seem to realize the simple fact that by definition a CRIMINAL ignores or breaks the law.

You don't fight against nukes with satellite missiles. You build the CIA and the KGB. You use more effective tools that better reduce probability.

Ignoring the "straw man" nuke argument, it sounds like this person is in favor of creating an agency like the KGB (or enhancing the CIA) until they have "complete" control. This would be more commonly called a police state. I am literally stunned at the Naiveté this displays. I would hope that the letter writer goes back to school and learns more about police states, the KGB and so forth before ever making such a vile statement again. I can hear the whirring of thousands of soldiers who are spinning in their coffins over that one.

Whew, I'm actually tired after all of that.
 
It's one thing to not be comfortable with a firearm
and therefore opt to not keep or bear one. But it's another to impose
the same handicap onto others.

This is the most annoying trait of anti-gunners, IMO. When I applied for my CCW, I had to list 2 local references. My friend (at the time) wouldn't let me list him, because he thought gun ownership was wrong. I explained that I wasn't asking his permission for the permit, and that I just wanted to list him as a reference, but no dice.

I asked him why he thought his personal views warranted stripping me of my constitutional rights, and he said he didn't care. I told him that he benefited indirectly from gunowners because legal gun ownership puts a little bit of doubt into every would-be home intruder's head. He didn't care.

Eventually we didn't hang out anymore. I lost all respect for him.
 
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