The Bush gun myth

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Thumper

Thumper

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From another thread.

And the really sad thing is, Bush wouldn't BE anti-gun if he didn't know he could get away with it.
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Okay...to those who don't realize Dubya's history on the gun issue:

You do realize that antis consider Bush the most pro gun president since Teddy, right?

You do know that Bush won the Texas governorship on the CCW issue, right?

You do know that Bush was instrumental in protecting our industry from the frivolous lawsuits that were a serious threat.

There's more, but it's really too much to mention...ask the "we're now working out of the oval office" NRA.

Characterizing Dub as an anti is pretty silly.

Yeah...Bush's official position (that he refuses to repeat) is that he supports the existing ban...so do most gun owners, according to polls. THAT is our fault.

Congress passes bills, folks...let's not forget it.

Is Bush the best possible pro gun candidate? No. He supports NICS, among other things.

Is he the best we have that has a chance of winning?

Absofrigginlutely...join us in the real world.
 
Is he the best we have that has a chance of winning?
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It's simple. If he signs a new AW ban next year, he is no different than Clinton doing the same thing in '94. I will not reward that by voting for him. He may lose the election and we may have to live with a Democrat for the next four years, but possibly the president after that will have learned a lesson.

He can say or not say anything he wants, but it's his actions that will determine if he gets my vote or not.
 
If Bush loses, do you think anyone in the media will equate that to the AWB?

'Course not...

That bill should never get to his desk...Our most politically astute scholars (Gottleib, et al) don't believe it will. I hope they're right.

But that's far from the point...the point is, Bush ain't perfect, but if we demand an absolutely ideal candidate, we're gonna be waiting a long time.

Bush, in my opinion, is by far the most pro gun candidate we could hope for.
 
You do realize that antis consider Bush the most pro gun president since Teddy, right?
Based mostly on the fact that he is from Texas. They also painted him as a boogie man because he was a republican and the guy he was against was anti gun. Everyone needs a vilian to fight.

You do know that Bush won the Texas governorship on the CCW issue, right?
If he was not pro-ccw he would not have been elected, all this proves is that he is not a hard core grabber willing to commit political suicide to keep guns out of people's hands. I am not saying that is his goal, but that is all it proves.

You do know that Bush was instrumental in protecting our industry from the frivolous lawsuits that were a serious threat.
How so? I have not kept up to date on the issue, but please tell me what he has done to help it. How hard has he been pushing this? Has it even passed yet?

Is he the best we have that has a chance of winning?
Yes, well maybe Dean, but I do not trust either. I think both are closet antis who if they could would be open antigun except for it being political suicide. They both do as little as they can to help, and are willing to hurt the rkba.

There's more, but it's really too much to mention...ask the "we're now working out of the oval office" NRA.
That was just one guy that was happy Gore did not win, I am happy that the NRA is happy, but they have sold us down the river a few too many times when they did not have to, and even for no reason.

Is there any solid evidence that he is pro rkba? I think he is a politician being everything to everyone, and doing what will get him the most votes. Has he done anything on the gun issue either way that will hurt the number of votes he gets?
 
[
How so? I have not kept up to date on the issue, but please tell me what he has done to help it. How hard has he been pushing this?
Click to expand...

With respect, that's why I posted this...a lot of folks (pretty smart, IMO) get most of their news from THR...but a lot of the Bush stuff is skewed, to say the least.

Google is your friend...please...look into this.

edited to say that Google is not your friend, but pound thier engine anyway.

:D
 
One-issue voters are dangerous. We lost it incrementally and we have to win it back incrementally. Yes, the AWB is big, but so are tax cuts, foreign policy, privatizing the ponzi-scheme we call social insecurity....If you elect a socialist, then we lose other freedoms so that you can have a tantrum. Patience, grasshopper. Bush is working on re-election, then the second and final term, where he can shed the middle road on the gun issues. He has to appeal to some sheeple to win. THINK.
 
As far as my vote goes, it is a tossup between Bush and the LP candidate. If Bush has the AWB accross his desk and signs it, he is toast in my eyes. If he doesnt, then I will consider him on other issues, and vote as I see fit. I may still end up voting LP.....

I would love to see the LP candidate in a debate with the other two.:)
 
I'll cast my vote for Bush before Hitlery, Gore or Lieberman. He's no Teddy Roosevelt, but he's better than the other three.
 
Bush maybe the lesser of two evils.

This emphatically does not make him pro-gun.

All it means is that he is less anti-rights than the other choices out there, and maybe, possibly able to logically look at the issue.

But I doubt it.
 
Better look at the opposition before you vote against Bush. I doubt he'd sign a new AWB, but it shouldn't even get to him. The Republicans have a lot on their plate without worrying about laws that make no difference whatsoever.

Does anyone doubt Al Gore would be passing antigun laws left and right? Do you think any Democrats would be better? How 'bout Al Sharpton.
 
And now a word from the tilecrawlers: Gentlemen, please be advised,

1. the next President of the United States will appoint at least three Supreme Court justices and name a new Chief Justice;

2. Bush is NOT our ideal;

3. However, I would rather Bush nominate federal judges and justices rather than than his opposition in the (more)socialist party.

We did not lose our freedom overnight, we will not regain it overnight.
 
I agree with Hkmp5sd.

If Bush does sign the AWB, I will be voting for the Democrat to send a message to the Republican leadership. They will be no different from Clinton. It is the only thing that politicians understand - getting votes or losing votes.

Paul
 
Is there any solid evidence that he is pro rkba? I think he is a politician being everything to everyone, and doing what will get him the most votes. Has he done anything on the gun issue either way that will hurt the number of votes he gets?
Click to expand...

As far as my vote goes, it is a tossup between Bush and the LP candidate. If Bush has the AWB accross his desk and signs it, he is toast in my eyes. If he doesnt, then I will consider him on other issues, and vote as I see fit.
Click to expand...

NukemJim
 
Bush has repeatedly said that he believes that, not only is it our right, but that those that carry guns reduce crime.

He is strongly for CCW...

Read that again...Our President is strongly pro-CCW.

Is that everything? No. But painting that as "anti-gun" doesn't pass the sniff test.
 
So, what makes us all think that...

The awb renewal bill is gonna happen right before the election?

The sunset/expiration date has NO BEARING on any subsequent legislation.

The NJ smart gun ban happened the same way: It was scheduled for vote right before the election, the governor made a phone call, and magically, the vote was rescheduled.

We all know how that turned out.

Since America willing to tolerate the lunacy of the AWB in the first place, there's nothing especially surreal about winding up with "pre-ban, post-ban, and Sept-Dec2004, and post-post-ban" class firearms.

Make no mistake, if the AWB is renewed in any form, the "check on tyranny" rationale for 2A is officially flushed down the toilet.
 
It's nice to see that w4rma is so concerned about not reinacting the AWB and is worried that President Bush MAY do that. Let's see how HIS candidate, Howard Dean, feels about the issue:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

:eek: That doesn't look too good! I'm confused. Could it be that our Second Admendment brother, w4rma, is not what he seems? Could it be that he is just another troll? Let's check out w4rma's website he lists on his profile to learn more about him: http://www.democraticunderground.com/ Isn't that the same website that had one longtime member writing in calling for the death of MORE American troops?

:what: Well, I guess we now know what w4rma is!
 
Not all progressives are anti-gun, Cactus. In fact a majority of DUers hold moderate gun positions and a good number of DUers hold anti-gun control positions. Do a search on DU on my posts. Do a search here on my posts. My position is consistent no matter where I post.

It is my observation that the gun control argument tends to be urban vs. rural rather than liberal vs. conservative. IMHO, liberal/relaxed gun laws are more consistent with liberal/relaxed social views than conservative/strict social views.
 
Listen to El T!!
1. the next President of the United States will appoint at least three Supreme Court justices and name a new Chief Justice;
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I don't think this is the ideal election to "send a message" to the Repubs. I think this could possibly be one of the most important elections of our gun owning lives.


geek
The awb renewal bill is gonna happen right before the election?
The sunset/expiration date has NO BEARING on any subsequent legislation.

The NJ smart gun ban happened the same way: It was scheduled for vote right before the election, the governor made a phone call, and magically, the vote was rescheduled.

We all know how that turned out. /QUOTE]
That's the way I see it.
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The sad thing is, I think Bush has been really bad on a number of issues, but the whack-job field coming up on the left is so much worse that I don't see much alternative to voting for a guy I disagree with on a string of issues important to me.

Sigh. Damn real world politcs.
 
Make no mistake, if the AWB is renewed in any form, the "check on tyranny" rationale for 2A is officially flushed down the toilet.
Click to expand...

Now I would disagree with that statement. Everyone here has pointed out at one time or another that the weapons banned by the AWB are banned for cosmetic reasons only. The AWB violates the 2nd Amendment and may put us further down the slippery slope towards total gun confiscation, but we can't logically say that the "check on tyranny" is gone because we dont have certain cosmetically incorrect firearms.

If widespread tyranny were to fall upon our land, I certainly would not want to fight the civil war with one of the banned assault weapons, and no one else would either. A post ban rifle, or for that matter a bolt or lever action, would be just fine. Upon first confrontation with the enemy, one of two things would happen. Either I would be killed, and therefore in no need of any gun, or I would kill an enemy, and equip myself with his leftovers.
 
One-issue voters are dangerous. We lost it incrementally and we have to win it back incrementally. Yes, the AWB is big, but so are tax cuts, foreign policy, privatizing the ponzi-scheme we call social insecurity....If you elect a socialist, then we lose other freedoms so that you can have a tantrum.



THANK YOU. There are other things in th eworld besides guns, No matter what one thinks on abortion, taxes,etc. Those issues are important and will be big and discussed in the next 4 years.
 
Lone_Gunman:

While I take your point,

-Do you think the finite and slowly dwindling supply of full capacity mags are going to last forever? What about 100 years from now?

-Do you think it's just to sit in jail, gun rights lost forever, because one of your mags happened to be inscribed with the wrong mystical symbol ("LEO Use Only"), or you had some other politically incorrect feature?

While the existing AWB doesn't _immediately_ flush the resisting tyranny rationale,

The AWB has three purposes and effects:

1) To make us jump through flaming hoops, and fret about these "inconsequential" cosmetic features.
2) To provide the basis/pretext for widespread gun enforcement actions, based on a wide list of prohibited small arms.
3) To incrementally gain/cement public approval for the notion that "civilians shouldn't have military type firearms", and thus build on the foundation laid by NFA, prep the public for the future, and provide the "next step" in gun control.

It's all a part of an overall continuum, with #3 having the biggest effect on resisting tyranny. The longer the "no mil type firearms in civilian hands" idea is tolerated, the less legitimate "resisting tyranny" will seem.

At one time, the resisting tyranny rationale was taught in civics classes in schools, and was broadly accepted. Today, a great many people consider the "resisting tyranny" rationale to be both LUDICROUS, and EXTREMIST, and the AWB played a large part in that.

Right now, the gun bigots are trying to get public debate together over mag fed semi-auto, a debate which wouldn't even be possible without the AWB.

That's the big one.

IMO, mag fed semi-auto of a significant caliber is the BARE MINIMUM NECESSARY for a militarily useful firearm*, and now we're only one short step away.

We shouldn't start telling ourselves the AWB is OK. IT'S NOT.

That being said, Bush is still the lesser evil, and El-T's the point about the composition of the next SCOTUS is huge.

*For the average guy. Bolt fed high precision rifles, etc are for experts.
 
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