The chart.

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kcmarine

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The M4 chart is nothing new to anyone around these parts. You know, this one.


fveann.jpg

It's been a while since it was made... 2007. How accurate is it now? I know the prices aren't the same as they were, but have the specs changed?

Maybe we at THR should re- evaluate the chart... see how accurate it is, and update it. Given the state of the sales of the AR15 platform, now would be a great time to fact check that thing. Maybe even add some context as to what each model would be good for... the DPMS for range shooting, the Noveske for carbine classes, etc.

Just an idea.
 
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That version of "the chart" is no longer accurate.

For example: Even the base line DPMS Sportical now has M4 feed ramps and a shot peened bolt. This is true for most all AR-15s now. Additionally, MPI and HPT testing are now done by nearly all AR manufacturers, but in batch testing instead of testing every individual bolt.
 
Maybe we at THR should re- evaluate the chart... see how accurate it is, and update it.
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rob s (member here) is, IIRC, the original maker of the chart. It would be cool for him remake it for current prices, and with more high end makers if possible. (might as well have the same guy do it again:D)
 
If you think that the chart is wrong then provide documentation to prove it. Of course that would mean doing more then just saying, "The chart sucks!", so I'm not holding my breath.
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Not saying it is, I'm just wondering if it's still accurate. Even within the last few months, it wouldn't surprise me if the companies that make the AR design have gotten enough revenue to purchase new equipment and make a better rifle.
 
kcmarine said:
Not saying it is, I'm just wondering if it's still accurate. Even within the last few months, it wouldn't surprise me if the companies that make the AR design have gotten enough revenue to purchase new equipment and make a better rifle.
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The "you" wasn't directed at you specifically kcmarine.
 
"If you think that the chart is wrong then provide documentation to prove it. Of course that would mean doing more then just saying, "The chart sucks!", so I'm not holding my breath."


Now, I'm not saying the chart is "wrong" so to speak, and it obviously took some work to put together, but I would question some of it's entries.

Specifically

"Properly staked gas key" - who (according to the chart, determined what was properly staked and what wasn't?

"Milspec Barrel Steel" - what about the barrels that exceed the milspec and thus don't advertise themselves as milspec?

"HPT Barrel" - tested to which set of pressure specifications?

"1:7 Rifling Twist" - usually more desirable than 1:12, but what about the folks who might want 1:9 or 1:8?

"5.56 Chamber" - similar question to above - what about folks who actually prefer a Wylde or even a 223 Rem chamber?

"F Front Sight Base" - just an X in a column? What about the makes/models that shouldn't have an F FSB?

"Staked Castle Nut" - just flat out not a great selling point.


Not saying that the chart is wrong (actually, to be totally forthright - I'm pretty sure it's not 100% correct anymore, but I am too lazy to do all the homework involved in proving that claim) - just that some folks casually examining the list might assume that everything that has an X is a positive. That might not always be the case.
 
Another thing about the chart... it's basically saying, "If you want this thing to be as close as possible to an M4 Carbine, this is what you should look for." That's great if you're looking for a rifle for a carbine class, but what about something for John and Jane Q. Shooter? Maybe we need to set up a scientific poll here at THR... one about the generally available AR, about which brands, through the answers of a survey, prove most reliable.
 
huckster, and everyone else, please read the entire first post in the thread linked to by ramis in post 7

then feel free to re-post questions/comments
 
lol @ "the chart"

ive owned rifles on both ends of the quality scale of "the chart", and while it would suggest which of those were the better rifles, real world experience ( read shooting them) has completely suggested otherwise, and my apoligies, but i just cant ignore what my rifles have told me.
 
I don't like the new version of the chart. the old one listed the optional upgrades, which I think should always be included so that someone can look at the chart and see what a manufacturer does or does not offer. Not doing so - IMO - takes away credit from them. I can see three companies that have alot of optional upgrades or add-ons that improve the product. Other than that, you can definitely see what the specs really are.

Also, I would really like to see more brands as well. Some of the match quality ones, and maybe some of the lower ones like Double Star, Del-Ton, and even see where BCM really is... Anyone think he'll get around to doing more brands?
 
That is indeed an outdated verion of the chard. And FlyinBryan, the people who made that chart have more experience than most shooters on this board put together. They are people who rely on these firearms regularly to get through the day.

I trust their judgement.
Not to mention my last 2 DPMS rifles were junk.
 
That is indeed an outdated verion of the chard. And FlyinBryan, the people who made that chart have more experience than most shooters on this board put together. They are people who rely on these firearms regularly to get through the day.
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there are over eighty seven thousand members of this board.

of those +87,000 people, how many do you personally know?

you know what? nevermind.
 
Taliv - I did - and I responded to the original post in THIS thread
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then I guess I'm at a loss to understand your questioning...

e.g. what makes/models of M4 carbines shouldn't have an F FSB?

why would anyone prefer a 223rem chamber on an M4?

what does it matter if you prefer a 1/8 or 1/9 twist? what if you prefer a lever action?

is it not painfully obvious from reading the other thread that the sole purpose of the chart is to inform regarding whether a feature is or is not in spec?
 
where is the AK chart?
jihadist need a charts.
or the 1911 chart. Everyone makes a 1911.
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lol

we need a garand chart.

mines a springfield.

when you own a garand, a castlenut is a crazy dude that lives in a big gray house.
 
where does one find the "m4 specs" . why doesnt anyone post that. then I can get out my mics and check my frankinAR and see if its up to specs.
 
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