The cheap Heritage revolvers. Frame materials.

[Orion8472]

So, I didn't want to spend the money for a gun and .45acp ammo [Ruger New Vaquero], so decided to go with something similar, but cheaper . . . shooting .22lr and magnum. I still wanted the Birds Head handle and couldn't find any maker other than Heritage. So, Buds had one listed. I paid $260 for it. But later, my brother was telling me that they were $190 at Buds, . . . so I had to wonder why I was paying that much more.

Well, I guess there are different frame materials used for Heritage guns. Most are . . . alloy? Not sure what that means, as far as actual metal used. The one I am getting uses a steel frame, apparently.

Does anyone have inside knowledge of Heritage revolvers that could give insight into this?

Thanks.

 

[CajunBass]

An alloy frame is some type of aluminum. Heritage makes both "alloy" and steel frames.

Which is better? For a 22 it probably doesn't really matter. I've owned both, and the big difference is the weight. Usually steel guns are nicer IMHO.

 

[CraigC]

It's not aluminum, it has aluminum in it (~4%) but it's not the major component. It's a zinc-based alloy (96% zinc) known as ZAMAK. Otherwise known as pot metal. Same material used for Matchbox cars.

The steel version uses the 12L14 alloy, which is the lowest grade of steel you'll find in firearms' manufacture. Used because it's soft and easy to machine and passes the melting point stipulation in some states' anti-Saturday Night Special laws.

 

[Orion8472]

That steel seems better than the alloy.

I'm only going with Heritage because I know of no other .22lr/.22mag convertable Birds Head revolver. If you know of one that I've missed, PLEASE feel free to post it here. I would have gone with Ruger, but they don't offer that. . . . neither does Uberti.

Seriously, . . before the transfer occurs, if you have another option, post it. . . . otherwise, I will go with the only option. Thanks guys!

 

[CraigC]

Ruger did a run of birdshead Single Sixes. Might've done blued and stainless. I don't know how plentiful they are but they were a distributor special. Cimarron offers 4¾" and 5½" Lightning models. Uberti offers the Stallion with a birdshead grip but only in .38Spl.

Why the insistence on the birdshead grip?

 

[Orion8472]

I just like the looks and feel of the Birdshead. Something different than the normal look.

I may try to find a blued Ruger. I can assume the metal used in that revolver would be superior to the metal in the Heritage.

 

[gpr]

you missed the boat at buds....i got one with both cylinders for $150 shipped...

 

[Orion8472]

Well, . . . that sucks.

 

[GCBurner]

The alloy frames seem fine, I've put a lot of rounds through mine in both .22LR and .22Mag with no problems. The steel frame rimfires are mostly for sale in states and locations that ban alloy frame handguns as "Saturday Night Specials", and as you found, the steel costs quite a bit more.

I don't know what specific alloy Heritage uses to cast its rimfire frames, but their website lists it as aluminum alloy. Ruger uses an aluminum alloy for it's .22 frames as well, while Hi Point uses a zinc-aluminum alloy called Zamak-3 for its cast semi-auto frames and slides, including the 9mm and .45ACP. The tensile strength on a frame is less important than the strength of the cylinder and the barrel, which are steel.

 

[Orion8472]

I actually cancelled the order [hadn't been shipped yet]. I am going to attempt to find a blued version of the Ruger Birdshead. If I fail in that, I may resort back to the Heritage.

If anyone knows of a Ruger for sale, feel free to post that here. Thanks!

 

[GCBurner]

I actually cancelled the order [hadn't been shipped yet]. I am going to attempt to find a blued version of the Ruger Birdshead. If I fail in that, I may resort back to the Heritage.

If anyone knows of a Ruger for sale, feel free to post that here. Thanks!

Ruger doesn't make the birdshead model in the Vaquero or Single Six anymore, but you can still get the birdshead gripframes and grips from places like Brownell and Midway and make your own. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/82...ingle-six-vaquero-large-frame-stainless-steel

 

[CraigC]

I can assume the metal used in that revolver would be superior to the metal in the Heritage.

Ruger uses the same steels in the Single Sixes as they do the centerfire models.

I don't know what specific alloy Heritage uses to cast its rimfire frames, but their website lists it as aluminum alloy.

As stated before, it is not an aluminum alloy, it is ZAMAK3. Ruger uses a 6061 aluminum alloy, nowhere near being even close to the same ball park and that is ONLY in the grip frame of the regular blued models. The birdshead models are all steel.

 

[hogshead]

Since you said you cancelled the order I will say that $250 for a Heritage revolver is waaaaaay to much I dont care what its made of.

 

[Orion8472]

LOL. . . . point well taken, hogshead.

 

[BCRider]

Folks that have the Heritage guns say that they shoot decently enough. And the steel one, even if it's the softest steel going, is going to wear well in this sort of gun.

Now for the other side of the coin. I've been down the "inexpensive" .22 revolver road and didn't like the side of town they took me to. With time and a bit of luck I've managed to come across two of the .22 handgun "classics". Namely an older 3 screw Ruger Single Six and a S&W Model 17. Both of these have far nicer triggers than the "others" and both have proven to be more accurate than the "others".

I've since sold one of the "others" and have one or two more that I'm going to sell simply because I don't want to shoot them any longer due to the less than stellar trigger feel and a slight but noticable reduction in consistent accuracy. The H&R top break I'm keeping simply because it's a top break and isn't too much less accurate than the classic guns.

There's a simple reason why the desireable classic .22 guns are at the top of the food chain. They were not born there. They climbed up to the top of the heap over the bodies of those "other brands" by being reliable, having nice to use triggers and demonstrating good levels of accuracy. The other options all compromise on one or more aspects to be able to sell at a lower price point.

While it will cost a little more I'd suggest you go with the Single Six option and add a bird's head frame and grips from Midway or some other supplier as suggested. If you want a shorter than usual barrel to complement the frame and grip style then have the stock one cut down and recrowned to 4 5/8 to match the length of the ejector rod housing. Again all this will cost more but in the end you'll have a gun which will last a lifetime. And because you have both frames and grips you can switch hit back and forth in about 5 minutes. That's actually a nice option.

 

[Orion8472]

I'm feeling good about canceling the order. I am going to stick with the Ruger revolver, at this point. If I can't get a factory made Ruger Birdshead, then I will just get a Single Six and buy the frame. I'd rather not have to do that. . . . and most likely will either not buy one, or begrudgingly buy the traditional handle model. Ruger Single Sixes are already a fair amount [for a 22lr] and with the extra $120 for the Birdshead frame [and the extra small parts to get it all together], it may not be the best option after that, then I will just go with a basic Ruger.

If I do that, I MAY just. . . . . . . . . . you know what, . . never mind on what I was going to say. I'm going to forego the Heritage. If I'm going to get a Cowboy Action revolver, I don't want part of the design beauty marred by an ugly safety lever.

 

[CraigC]

I know I'm biased but I think you made the right decision.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=285473803

 

[clang]

Nothing wrong with a Heritage, but I don't think I ever met anyone with a Ruger or S&W that said "I should have saved the money and bought a Heritage..."

Can't say the converse is true...

 

[mgmorden]

I don't know what specific alloy Heritage uses to cast its rimfire frames, but their website lists it as aluminum alloy. Ruger uses an aluminum alloy for it's .22 frames as well, while Hi Point uses a zinc-aluminum alloy called Zamak-3 for its cast semi-auto frames and slides, including the 9mm and .45ACP.

It cant be a standard aluminum alloy. Every aluminum alloy Ive ever seen will pass state melting point laws. The alloy frame Heritage guns do not.

As an aside, does anyone else find it odd that the firearms industry differentiates between alloy and steel when steel is by definition an alloy?

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jim NE]

That price may be a bit high...probably was one of the steel frame revolvers. Heritage won't be a classic like the Colt or Ruger, but I would definitely consider ordering one of the cheaper ones (under $200) with the alloy frame IF affordability is the issue.

My Heritage was a blem from Bud's for $148 WITH a magnum cylinder. They don't always have the blems, but when they do they're a good deal and come with a lifetime warranty.

Heritage's shouldn't be viewed as Saturday Night Specials. They could be good starter/beginner/plinker guns, though. If I had a 12 to 15 year old child who wanted to save up and buy a revolver, or if there was an elderly person an a fixed income who wanted pest control in a small package, it could be a good option. The reviews they get are overwhelmingly good. Will they last 20,000 rounds? I have no idea. But I have confidence in mine.

My Heritage shoots way better than the Old 8" Single Six I once owned. There was a problem with that gun, and I don't try to characterize Single Sixes as bad - they aren't. Just saying there's no guarantee of world class performance with most guns.

The OP was correct to cancel his order at that price, but if you see blems at Buds in the $150 range, they're an incredible deal. JMO.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Orion8472,

Glad you cancelled the order for that Heritage, in the long run you'll be better off with a Ruger even if you have to wait a bit to change the grip frame to your desired shape. The Ruger offers far superior metallurgy, and overall manufacturing quality. Plus their warranty service is typically outstanding if you ever do need something.

You will be enjoying a Ruger long after you forgot exactly how much it cost you, and your kids and grandkids will likely be enjoying the same gun long after you are gone if you take care of it. The same probably can't be said of a Heritage.

 

[dagger dog]

A friend has a Sauer and Son W.German made 22 lr 1873 Colt clone. He had a problem that a detail strip an clean fixed.

When I first saw the gun and picked it up, it hefted and felt like a steel gun. I got it home for the "repair" and on closer inspection noticed it was a zinc alloy frame with steel barrel forcing cone and cylinder liners.

I really prefered the feel of that gun to his Super Single Six, the frame size of the Sauer was the same as a 45 Colt also the weight, it was an all leaf spring gun, although the grip frame was one peice ,the rest was a copy of the Colt.

It had a light 3 lb. trigger pull and no creep, the accuracy was as good,would probably shoot right with the Ruger if it had adjustable sights.

BUT it's really hard to beat that Super Single Six, and it was a 3 screw convertible to boot!

You did the right thing !

 

[Orion8472]

The only reason I considered the Heritage is because there is [for some odd reason] very few of the birdshead designs out there. Not sure why, but they had one. I was even willing to put up with that silly safety that completely destroys the curve of the. . . . . whatever that part of the frame is called.

I have something in the works with a hopeful Ruger purchase by next Sunday. I really hope it works out. *fingers crossed*

 

[TennJed]

I don't know if it was just part of a special run but my local gunshop has a new Ruger 22lr/22mag birdshead in the case for a few weeks.

 

[CraigC]

As an aside, does anyone else find it odd that the firearms industry differentiates between alloy and steel when steel is by definition an alloy?

It irritates me too for the same reason. Ruger has always been bad about it.