The correct argument we don't hear on state with 'lax' Gun Control laws

[usmarine0352_2005]

Recently President Obama and Chicago politicians blamed Indiana for having lax gun control laws which they say are responsible for bringing easily accessed guns across state lines and into Chicago where they are used in many shootings and homocides.


People in defense of guns say that there are plenty of laws on the books and that they should be enforced. That is correct.




But why hasn't anyone said:


If lax gun laws in Indiana are the reason for the violent crime rate involving guns in Chicago then why, percentage-wise, does Indiana not have a violent crime rate involving guns as high as Chicago?



Because one with think that if guns are so easy to get a hold in Indiana then Indiana would also be a war zone, like Chicago.






http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/10/28/lax-indiana-gun-laws/74740388/

Is Indiana to blame for Chicago's gun violence?

Tony Cook, The Indianapolis Star 1:13 p.m. EDT October 28, 2015

INDIANAPOLIS — When President Barack Obama suggested that Indiana and other states with few gun restrictions are to blame for Chicago’s homicide problem, it rankled GOP leaders here. “There are those who criticize any gun safety reforms by pointing to my hometown as an example,” Obama said. “The problem with that argument, as the Chicago Police Department will tell you, is that 60% of guns recovered in crimes come from out of state. You’ve just got to hop across the border.”

A report from Chicago authorities found that nearly 60% of illegal guns recovered in the city from 2009 to 2013 were first sold in states with more lax gun laws. The largest portion came from Indiana, which accounted for 19% of the illegal guns in Chicago.

“It doesn’t matter where the guns come from,” he said. “It’s a societal problem in Chicago. … I don’t know what in the world Indiana could have to do with their inability to deal with their criminal activity.”

 

[joem1945]

Don't try to confuse O'bummer and his liberal minions with facts. Their minds are made up and nothing said will change them. Waste of time and energy.

 

[yokel]

The changes in crime due to gun control measures do not answer the fundamental philosophical question: do free people have the right to keep and bear arms? Our Founding Fathers evidently thought so.

Indeed, the gun control and confiscation agenda is based on the view that ordinary citizens can't be trusted to use the physical power of arms responsibly; that they represent nothing more than a lethal menace. There is therefore need for a legal instrument that would ban the manufacture, transfer, accumulation, and use of all small arms and light weapons. But a people that can not be trusted with guns can not be trusted with the much more dangerous powers of self-government. Why should a people who can't be trusted to refrain from murder and mayhem be trusted with the much more difficult and morally subtle task of choosing their leaders responsibly?

The gun control agenda is thus an implicit denial of the human capacity for self-government and is tyrannical in principle.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

It just be nice if someone said, "If it's our lax gun laws causing the problem then how come we don't have the same crime rate as you?"

 

[Haxby]

According to the first site I just googled, Indianapolis has higher crime rates than Chicago.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

According to the first site I just googled, Indianapolis has higher crime rates than Chicago.

Oops, now an ongoing shooting at an Indianapolis mall as we speak.

 

[MErl]

Can Indiana turn around and blame crime rates on folks leaving Chicago for areas with less competition?

 

[hso]

If lax gun laws in Indiana are the reason for the violent crime rate involving guns in Chicago then why, percentage-wise, does Indiana not have a violent crime rate involving guns as high as Chicago?

This was a consistent comment to the Chicago Tribune article about the upcoming visit. How is it that Chi-raq has a third world murder rate and Indianapolis doesn't if the easy access to guns in Indiana is to blame for Chicago's murder rate? Why aren't the streets of Milwaukee at the flood line with blood like Chi Town? Des Moins doesn't have the body count, what's wrong with their criminals that they can't keep us with Chicago? Cincinnati? Columbus? Louisville? What is it that makes all the guns earmarked for criminals in the neighboring states get up and migrate to Chicago like lemmings instead of staying home?

 

[yugorpk]

Its a lot easier to blame the guns than to say the people of Chicago are worthless.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Thank you, Obama, for opening my eyes! My home county in Tennessee was "dry" under local option alcohol prohibition from 1953 to 1968; moonshining and bootlegging became rampant. It did not help that the neighboring Virginia county had liquor stores run by their state Alcohol Beverage Commission ABC. I was age five to twenty in those years, and I become very cynical about uplifters and dogooders: I would say "It is all nice to have these people eager to save us, but who will save us from our saviors?" Now I see the light! The local option prohibition law failed because there was not a national prohibition law! If only there had been a national prohibition law, my county would have been truly "dry"!

 

[gbran]

This should be the standard COMEBACK to this oft used argument.

 

[hso]

The post about Indianapolis being more dangerous than Chicago let me to key searches off of that info. I found that Chicago's RATE of murder was middling compared to other cities.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...r-capital.html

Note the ranking for the "top" 10 murder cities was Detroit, New Orleans, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, LA, NYC.


http://heyjackass.com/


Here's an interesting site with interesting Chicago murder/shootings information shows this is not the hottest year in murder history for Chicago. Those occurred in the early '90s and earlier in the '70s.


Also interesting is that Chicago isn't even the worst for murder rate in the U.S. for 2014 (2015 ain't over yet), but the attention given to it gives that impression for recent years. Lots of attention on the Chicago murder rate, but nothing much focused elsewhere. Perhaps it is the gross volume due to the larger population, but still ???

 

[JSH1]

Chicago's homicide numbers are also down substantially from the peak in the 90's.



Chicago didn't get much press in 2014 when they had the lowest number of murders since 1965.

 

[JSH1]

This should be the standard COMEBACK to this oft used argument.

Not if the state you are using as an example has cities with a higher murder rate.

 

[Twiki357]

Exactly how is Indiana supposed to blame when sales to residents of another state are illegal unless there is a specific agreement between the two states; I don’t know if this is the case. Or are there that many straw buyers in Indiana…. Not very likely.

 

[chipcom]

If I were allergic to milk, would I take steps to protect myself from exposure to milk, or would I attempt to ban milk from the world? Rational people do the former, irrational people...gun control advocates for example...attempt the latter.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

That chart goes from 400, 600, 800, to 1000.

While in recent years the 400+ looks low, if you redo the chart based on 0, 200, 400, 600, 800, to 1000, the fluctuation is not so radical peak and valley.

Some people would look at that chart and see murder approaching zero in 1964 and 2014 when it was approaching 400.

That's like the surveys on gun ownership that compare peaks of 50+% in the 1960s to valleys of 30% at selected recent dates, that use a chart with a range of 30% to 60%. The casual viewer sees the bottom as zero without noticing the range scale on the side.*

And Chicago has had draconian gun laws throughout all that time period.

I think it illustrates that restrictive gun laws have no effect on bad behavior by bad people.

_______________________________
*(The number of households willing to report owning a gun in a survey actually depends more on the gun politics climate changes than on the actual number of households owning a gun. In 1994 a Gallup poll got 51% while the gov't NSPOF survey got 34%. Depends a lot on how the questions are asked and who is asking them. Reading statistics is like reading tea leaves.)

 

[MagnunJoe]

Ghetto loving politicians blame everybody BUT their uneducated, unproductive constituents for just about everything that happens in their ghettos.

 

[Deanimator]

If lax gun laws in Indiana are the reason for the violent crime rate involving guns in Chicago then why, percentage-wise, does Indiana not have a violent crime rate involving guns as high as Chicago?

I've been saying that for 30+ years.

The anti-gun cult's "argument" merely harkens back to the old arguments of communists who couldn't explain why Cuba was such a basket case under the U.S. embargo, even though it had the entire communist world with which to trade.

Just as the Stalinists couldn't explain why supposedly "superior" communism couldn't support itself, they can't explain why places literally awash in legally owned guns have LESS crime than cesspools with repressive gun controls.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've said exactly that to New Yorkers about my home state of Florida, which everyone knows is a major supplier of guns to New York City's miscreants..

It's your people, people. Fix them before attacking ours.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Perhaps someone can explain this to me -- if I get a gun to commit a crime, why would I travel to Chicago to commit that crime? Why not do it where I got the gun?

 

[olafhardtB]

Perhaps the Indianapolis murder rate is higher than Chicago's because they took all the guns to Chicago.

 

[cc-hangfire]

"I'm with you fellers!"

Earlier this week I heard a NY police official blame Georgia's easy-to-buy gun laws for three shootings in NY city since the handguns were purchased in Georgia. As a law abiding Georgia citizen with a collection of firearms, I've been on a slow burn all week. As the OP states, our state laws aren't causing a problem here. Blood isn't running in the streets in gun loving Georgia! Hmmm ... maybe it's the criminals from NY who are the problem. Ya think?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Earlier this week I heard a NY police official blame Georgia's easy-to-buy gun laws for three shootings in NY city since the handguns were purchased in Georgia. As a law abiding Georgia citizen with a collection of firearms, I've been on a slow burn all week. As the OP states, our state laws aren't causing a problem here. Blood isn't running in the streets in gun loving Georgia! Hmmm ... maybe it's the criminals from NY who are the problem. Ya think?

My response to this guy would be, you want to keep Georgia guns out of New York? Then keep your New York thugs out of Georgia.

And I'd remind him that New York police who were buying guns in another state as a sting operation were convicted of SELLING those guns illegally in New York.

(I guess they were practicing in case they got hired by ATFE.)

 

[Redacted]

This ^^^^^

Lock them up in New York--that way you won't have the problem.