The demise of metal

[smirnoff a]

It appears that there are more and more plastic guns on the market, while the variety of metal-frame guns continues to diminish. I am not talking about old designs like 1911, BHP or CZ75 and their derivatives, but new products released by various manufacturers. It looks like S&W has done away with them, H&K has not been making making them since P7 and the same goes for Walther just to name a few. Sig appears to be one of the few manufacturers that continues to produce metal.

Are there any new metal-frame pistols currently in development (not copies of the older models) by gun manufacturers, or are these a dying breed?

Thanks,

 

[Rembrandt]

Sad.....the golden era of all steel guns dressed in walnut are fast becoming a vanishing dream. On a positive note, highly unlikely you will ever see a Desert Eagle made of polymer.

 

[KodiakBeer]

It's just cheaper to stamp out plastic guns than forge and mill metal guns. What surprises me is that people will pay $500 or $600 for a plastic gun. They are functional and reliable, but the profit margin must be tremendous - you'd think the consumer would refuse to pay that much and keep the price reasonable. $250 or so...

 

[speaksoftly]

Sig appears to be one of the few manufacturers that continues to produce metal.

This alone will prevent the demise of metal from ever occurring.

 

[Welding Rod]

Ha. I went out and bought a Ruger P90 two days ago for this very reason. I figure it is just a matter of time until they go out of production.

 

[ScratchnDent]

I don't know that there is much left to be done with metal framed guns in the way of innovation, short of fabricating them from new alloys.

That's okay with me, though. My wood and metal revolvers and 1911s do everything I need a handgun to do, and I rather like the weight of them.

 

[tekarra]

Most cZ models are still metal, only two are plastic.

 

[jonnyc]

Now I know why I don't buy new guns!

 

[smirnoff a]

Hmm, was not aware that Ruger P90 had an aluminum frame - it always looked plasticky to me. I guess I never took a closer look. I was also always intrugued by chromed Baby Eagle. Are these still being imported? I am haveing a hard time finding one.

I don't beleive the innovation related to metal guns has been exhausted, however, it is true that plastic guns are cheaper to manufacture. Most treat them as tools, but being a collector, I sure perffer metal.

Boberg sure does look interesting. Not a new design by any means, but it is unlike anything on the market now days. I’ve been following it’s slow development for years now and its looking like it might be another few years until they become readily available. I can't tell if the frame on it is metal or plastic - the grip sure is plastic.

 

[481]

I am neither surprised nor bothered by this trend. I like it, actually.

Polymers/Composites are more economical to manufacture, demonstrate superior corrosion, embrittlement and fatigue resistance and tolerate/permit more flexible, aggressive designs than their metal counter-parts.

There will likely always be metal in some form in our firearms (springs, barrels, what-have-you) but, "plastic" is here to stay.

 

[LibertySympathizer]

While I would prefer a metal framed, it might take the edge off if at the very least the polymer frames still had interchangeable side grip panels so one could still personalize a pistol to individual tastes.

 

[Zoogster]

It is all about profit.

Steel guns require steel tools that wear away from friction during manufacture. Each component has a lifespan of producing so many gun parts before it needs replacement.
The product needs to be made to tight tolerances in spite of and wearing on the tooling as well.


Plastic is very cheap by comparison.
It is made in a mold at relatively low temperatures.

When polymer hit the market the manufacturers got away with charging virtually the same as for steel guns. Which were way overpriced.
(In fact they almost had to in order to not be targeted as "Saturday night specials/too affordable handguns.)
Yet people still bought them, so they made a great profit.
Over time the rest of the market has had to increase prices, but polymer already being overpriced rose in price much slower.
Now people expect a certain price range for handguns, and it is really hard to compete at that price range and produce a quality all metal firearm.
The logical solution to a manufacturer is to jump on the polymer bandwagon, and convert as much of the customer base into polymer lovers as possible.

 

[1SOW]

I'm an old guy sad to see this polymer trend of replacing steel in more and more quality guns.

IMO: For specific uses , the polymer pistols work well.
For reach out and touch some-thing, the weight and feel of a tuned steel gun can't be beat. AHHhh, Colt, Kimber, CZ, Sig, Beretta and many S&W, please stay true to the faithful.

But that's just me.

 

[metalman8600]

It is sad that even the metal pistols are made of aluminum and not steel. The feel of the plastic just doesn't feel good at all. If they made the same gun, same shape, but one with a metal frame and one with a plastic frame, then the metal frame would just feel so much better.

People complain about an increase of weight, they sound as if they watch too much "NutnFancy" or whatever on Youtube who complains over insignificant weight amounts.
Metal is like blood and soul of a machine, especially a gun.
You just can't make a plastic gun feel as good as a metal one. Fact.

 

[LawofThirds]

Plastic is far easier to work than metal. Basic molding equipment is far easier to maintain than the mills and lathes needed for steel.

Still, as long as there's guns, someone will want a steel gun.

 

[bluetopper]

All depends on the quality of craftsmanship you want in my opinion. Most people I think, buy a gun for home protection and maybe shoot it 3-4 times a year. In that case a polymer will do fine.
A quantity reloader and shooter, especially one who competes will choose a metal frame gun.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Man all you old fogies are hanging on to the metal guns, get with the times!

I don't like the feel of polymer pistols, I'll buy them but I prefer metal.

 

[toivo]

It's just cheaper to stamp out plastic guns than forge and mill metal guns. What surprises me is that people will pay $500 or $600 for a plastic gun. They are functional and reliable, but the profit margin must be tremendous - you'd think the consumer would refuse to pay that much and keep the price reasonable. $250 or so...

It's similar to what happened to ski boots in the '60s. They went from being made of leather--which required relatively expensive raw materials and a complex, labor-intensive manufacturing process--to plastic, which was molded by machine in the blink of an eye from materials that cost a tiny fraction of what the leather used to cost.

It was pretty clear that the new plastic boots were better in almost every important way--stiffness, water resistance, and durability--which is why the manufacturers got away with charging more for a product that cost them considerably less to produce. Ka-ching!

EDIT TO ADD: Gettng back on topic, I have two plastic handguns and eight metal ones (two aluminum and the rest steel), so you can see what my preference is.

 

[Pizzagunner]

I come at this from a different perspective. Steel and aluminum alloy framed pistols have had multiple decades of developmental time put into them.

There is not likely going to be any "new" steel or alloy framed pistol that is going to appreciably improve upon the 1911, BHP, CZ-75, SIG-22x or the Beretta M92. Steel and alloy has hit diminishing returns design wise in duty arms. Even then, we have seen some metal innovation at the pocket end of the spectrum with Kahr and the Rohrbaugh R9. Polymer has its design limits at the lighter end of the spectrum because shootability and limited flexing become very important and that requires some stiffness and some mass, which metal provides more straightforwardly than polymer can.

OTOH, polymer is really just getting cranked up. H&K was first. Glock popularized. Walther innovated. Dozens of companies experimented. Lately, things have gotten interesting. Glock's patents are expired, H&K is getting better rather than worse, the M&P arrived, the XD morphed out of the HS2000, SIG has kept experimenting and even Beretta's plastic has a cult following. It is extremely likely that all future duty sized weapons will be polymer framed unless a breakthrough in metals is achieved that gets machining out of the equation.

Liquid metal technology that eliminates the drawbacks of casting could be that innovation down the road, but it isn't cost competitive yet to be tried in a frame application. It has some promise though:

An amorphous alloy that can be cast into near final form without the weakness or bulk of traditional castings due to higher strength and elasticity could conceivably give polymer a run for its money in the future, especially if the innovation of design in plastic framed firearms has flamed out.

 

[twofifty]

Thanks pizzagunner, I did not know about this metallurgical process.
Found a good basic explanation here:

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidmetal

 

[Pizzagunner]

Current alloys of this type are too brittle for firearms use, but they are working on giving it more shock resistance as a class. If they do that, metal that can be formed like thermoplastics will be adopted by some gun maker in the future.

 

[LHRGunslinger]

Speaking as someone who is planning on joining the US Army in the near future polymers are great for combat weapons. In a combat environment yo're going to be going through all sorts of crappy conditions. Polymers plain and simple stand up better to mud, water and sand better than metals do.

Now speaking as someone who might not get into the US Army it saddens me that polymers are taking over. Yes they can be molded and formed into new and radical designs that would be nigh impossible with a metal framed weapon (specifically the PS90) but nothing in this world feels quite like a solid hunk of steel in your hand.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I wonder if the same sentiment wasn't echoed when wood handled black powder pistols started fading away.

 

[metalman8600]

Man all you old fogies are hanging on to the metal guns, get with the times!

I'm not even 25.

 

[combatantr2]

There will likely always be metal in some form in our firearms (springs, barrels, what-have-you) but, "plastic" is here to stay.

And metal is here to stay FOREVER!!!