The Draft Is Coming.....About Time

[Robert J McElwain]

I keep seeing stories and comments that allude to a return of the draft. If so, it's about time. We won't stop making stupid decisions about war until the sons and daughters of some our leaders are in the line of fire.

Bob

 

[Maxwell]

Because the sons and daughters of the rich and powerful who were not at risk during the previous drafts will be at risk now?

 

[Deanimator]

The ONLY guy pushing for a draft (Charlie Rangel) voted AGAINST one when given the opportunity.

It's a load of crap, and he's a pathologically lying buffoon.

 

[ArmedBear]

The sons and daughters of some of them are, actually.

We didn't make good decisions in Viet Nam, when we had a draft, either.

Whatever I think of the draft, I think that real world experience doesn't back up what you're assuming about its effects on those in power. Bummer it doesn't, but it doesn't.

 

[kludge]

You only need a draft to fight foreign wars.

Come to think of it, those Founders were pretty smart guys.

 

[Henry the Eighth]

What makes you think any of the elite's children will be drafted? They never were before, you really think they are going to start now? I don't. Besides a draft is just the government's way of telling you you do not own yourself, you became government property at birth.

 

[ArmedBear]

a pathologically lying buffoon

Isn't that Webster's definition of "politician"?

I'm sure it was Mark Twain's, anyway.

This is what he had to say about Congress and Congressmen:

Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.

...the smallest minds and the selfishest souls and the cowardliest hearts that God makes.

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.

Congressman is the trivialist distinction for a full grown man.

All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.

The lightning there is peculiar; it is so convincing, that when it strikes a thing it doesn't leave enough of that thing behind for you to tell whether--Well, you'd think it was something valuable, and a Congressman had been there.

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.

It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no native criminal class except Congress.

Whiskey is carried into committee rooms in demijohns and carried out in demagogues.

...I never can think of Judas Iscariot without losing my temper. To my mind Judas Iscariot was nothing but a low, mean, premature, Congressman.

 

[wooderson]

The ONLY guy pushing for a draft (Charlie Rangel) voted AGAINST one when given the opportunity.

It's a load of crap, and he's a pathologically lying buffoon.

Or he states up front that he's making a rhetorical argument.

The GOP speaks with a forked tongue - against the draft (obviously), but with people like McCain claiming a need for more troops on the ground (ignoring the idea of withdrawal completely). Where are you going to find those troops?

Rangel is making a point about the socio-economic background of recruits, and about the realities of Iraq. If you can't differentiate between that and "pathological lying," you've got trouble.

 

[AndyC]

Personally, I think Heinlein had it right in Starship Trooper - you're a citizen once you've served your time

 

[ArmedBear]

I favor the Swiss system, myself. Or Heinlein's.

No draft, just the Army = the People.

Like the Second Amendment says.

I don't mean we should have untrained militias; I mean universal service, and universal possession of small arms. Male and female of every stripe. If you're a Quaker or something, as my Austrian relatives are, we'll find something for you to do, just like my cousins in Austria, which also has universal service.

 

[Henry the Eighth]

So, according to you Andy, you are State property until you serve Cesar to his satisfaction? And you don't see what's wrong with that?

 

[RNB65]

The sons of our leaders had no trouble avoiding the last draft the US had. Why do you think they'd not have any trouble avoiding a new draft?

 

[Walkalong]

I'm all for reinstatement of the draft. It gives folks a commen thread, it makes them stronger and more appreciative of our great land and the freedoms here.

 

[BullfrogKen]

As a former Marine infantryman, I'm opposed to a draft, for a number of reasons.

Robert J McElwain said: We won't stop making stupid decisions about war until the sons and daughters of some our leaders are in the line of fire.

A draft certainly won't include these people, either. If this reason is why you support it, your support is founded on faulty premises.

 

[cbsbyte]

I personally am not for a draft but having a real citizen military, like Switzerland, and Israel. Where all citizens will serve in the standing national Guard military then after a period will be in the reserve forces until a certain age. I am tired of the professional standing military which has no responsblity except to the POTUS, and the DOD. It would also be great if congress passed a law that made the US a netural country in world affairs.

 

[the pistolero]

Rangel is making a point about the socio-economic background of recruits, and about the realities of Iraq.

I'd say Rangel's motion was less about making any kind of point and more political posturing, but that's just me.

As far as ole Charlie and guns are concerned, I went a-Googlin', and found this, via this:

Q: Recently in New York City, an unarmed black man was shot to death by police officers who thought he might have a weapon. Why do you think incidents like this keep happening?

A: The police are addicted to a contagious need to expel rounds of deadly bullets. They cannot control themselves because they see their fellow companions do it. They don’t carry the same standard they would in more affluent communities. Race only plays a role because there are more blacks and Hispanics in poor communities.

I wonder what he thinks of gun owners who don't wear the badge and the blue?

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Draft or not, doesn't really matter.

We need to return to George Washington's precedent.

Let the president lead the troops into battle.

Hey, same name, why not?

 

[Dmack_901]

I don't think drafts are inherently bad. And I don't think that now would be a terrible time to have one, but most of the country doesn't even know what we're doing, and I don't even know if the executive branch has a good plan. And in order to have an effective draft we have to have an informed populus. So there are things we'd need to do before passing the laws.

But addressing the main issue, with this democratic congress, we arn't going to have one unless something BIG happens(ie Iranian nuke attacks).

 

[Henry the Eighth]

What is up with having to login every time I want to post? Ugggg, aggravating!

All the flag waving, the chest pounding patriotism and macho nonsense aside, a draft equals slavery, pure and simple.

 

[RNB65]

Let the president lead the troops into battle.

He didn't become president until almost a decade after the war ended.

 

[madmike]

As a serving NCO I'll take anyone who proposes the draft out behind the bar and explain the error of their ways to them.

Conscript armies are vile, stupid and incompetent. It's bad enough with the Army lowering standards as is.

We aren't going to have a draft. It would be political suicide to anyone voting for it. We don't have the facilities for that many recruits under modern standards (Heck, there isn't enough equipment for the ones we HAVE). We couldn't trust the draftees in our current social society (can't PUNISH someone for committing a crime...so what's to compel obedience?) The theory that draftees somehow are more reluctant to commit evil can be shown to be BS by looking at Tianenmen Square. The theory that it makes for better soldiers can be demonstrated false by any number of wars. It worked for the US in WWII because people saw the need of it. It was less successful in Korea and abysmal in Vietnam.

I'm not aware of any senior NCOs or officers who want a draft, and the Pentagon is officially opposed to the idea. A few support national service CONCEPTUALLY for homeland defense, but none support a draft.

Besides which, the terrorist scum of the world don't DESERVE enough fear or respect to start drafting people at random. Our Cubs and Brownies are better men, and our volunteers are fifty times the warriors those gutless cowards are.

 

[Juna]

We won't stop making stupid decisions about war until the sons and daughters of some our leaders are in the line of fire.

There may be some truth to that, but if you think the politicians won't somehow get their kids out of the draft, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[wooderson]

I'd say Rangel's motion was less about making any kind of point and more political posturing, but that's just me.

I don't see a difference, when it comes to politicians.

 

[madmike]

As someone who did ten years in the Air Guard, it really ticks me off when people impugn another Air Guard vet.

Short answer: As someone who handled paperwork every drill as a shop chief, I've seen all the uploaded records of Bush's service.

He volunteered enlisted admin, went to basic, came back, volunteered as a pilot, took UPT (Which requires a degree, perfect vision, balance, reflexes, and can't be done as a "favor." You're either physically qualified to be a pilot or you are not), flew an F102, which was not the safest bird in the sky, for a unit that had ALREADY deployed to 'Nam and come back once.

To try and explain the details of his last year (Which was a bit short...so was mine) would take a few pages, but it was neither abnormal nor questionable. On this subject I can state confidently I know more about it than you do, and if you think otherwise you're wrong. Unless you also were an Air Guard shop chief and have seen the documents.

The majority of the US military in the 60s did not serve in Vietnam. There was this little thing called the "Cold War" involving potential nukes flying around that ate up most of the troops.

I really HATE the "Well, he served, but he was GUARD/he was active, but not Army/he was Army, but only a REMF/he was infantry, but never got any 'professional' certs such as Ranger/never 'took advantage of his opportunity to serve in combat'" BS. Especially since it usually comes from people who never served in ANY capacity.

You want a scheming coward, try clinton. Bush is as much a vet as I am.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

He didn't become president until almost a decade after the war ended.

Look up the Whiskey Rebellion.