The eternal question. How long to load for DA vs SA guns?

[BCRider]

The question has come up here a lot and it just came up on another forum I post to as well. And since I happened to be stowing some guns away after cleaning I thought I'd video and then time myself.

The video is simply too painful to watch thanks to my arms being in the way but it was OK for simply timing the two.

I started with each loaded with empty casings and a set of dummy loads in a tray. I timed from a trigger pull on the empties to the first trigger pull after loading. In neither case did I try to race but I do have a fairly sporty pace for shucking the empties out of the SA thanks to lots of practice. I also pick out the new ammo two at a time and load two at a time in the DA and feed one then the other into the SA. So there was only three trips to the ammo box.

The DA time from hammer fall to hammer fall was 10.6 seconds. For the SA it was 21.5 seconds. This included a couple of seconds of fumbling at finding the half cock on my Pietta SA and when two of the rounds didn't slip in unaided and needed a little nudge. If it all went smoothly I'd estimate that the SA would be down to more like 19 seconds.

 

[ATLDave]

What are the numbers if you use speedloaders for both?

Oh, wait, they don't make speedloaders for SA's, do they?

 

[jdh]

Yes, a spare loaded cylinder.

 

[BCRider]

On the other thread on the other forum the issue was discussion for a range only gun. A couple of folks posted that the OP should just get a swing out DA and use it in SA mode because the real SA's take SOOOOOOO long to load.

So I thought I'd give it a try using a typical range style reload of relaxed but quick speediness and loading from a cartridge box for both.

 

[Jim K]

Using a spare loaded cylinder is not really a very fast way to reload for a Colt type SAA. By the time you open the gate, pull the base pin (assuming the new type, not the screw held), remove the cylinder, put in the loaded one, get it in position, re-install the base pin and close the gate, you are getting close to the plain SA time. And that assumes you don't drop the base pin, or the spare cylinder, or the rounds in the spare cylinder, or the gun in trying to manipulate everything.

Of course, "single action" as such has nothing to do with the way a gun is loaded; the SA breaktops are pretty fast to load, and using a speed loader makes them probably the fastest revolvers to load.

I am sure someone who has never seen a Merwin & Hulbert will tell us how fast they are to reload. In fact, not a lot faster than the Colt SAA.

Jim

 

[BCRider]

One of the local shooting buddies actually bought a Merwin Hulbert and I got to shoot it and shuck the empties.

What a SWEET bit of design and engineering! ! ! ! Sadly I doubt we'll ever see a clone out of Italy or anywhere else since there's clearly a LOT of fancy machining processes or there was a lot of hand work.

 

[Jim K]

I think the fastest loading revolver (at least for a right handed shooter) would be a Webley, using speed loaders. The Webley can be opened and the cases ejected easily with one hand, the left hand would refill the cylinder from the speed loader. (Yes, the British had devices for loading a whole cylinder at a time; I have never actually seen one, but have no reason to think they didn't work, though they were never military issue.)

Jim

 

[HankR]

Oh, wait, they don't make speedloaders for SA's, do they?

A 1911 mag makes a dandy speed loader (well, at least a spring loaded "speed strip") for my Ruger when the .45 ACP cylinder is installed.

That said, twice as long is probably about right for me also.

Using a spare loaded cylinder is not really a very fast way to reload ... By the time you open....

Sometimes is takes me minutes to get that pin lined back up. This would be the slowest choice of all for me.

 

[gazpacho]

Sounds like a Jerry Miculek challenge to me!

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Anyone who thinks swapping cylinders in a SAA is the fastest way to reload has never tried it!

rc

 

[Fremmer]

A speed loader for a SA?

It's called a 2nd revolver, and a great reason to buy another gun!

 

[Jim K]

I do wish that folks would not always equate "single action" with the Colt SAA and clones. The S&W break top SINGLE ACTIONS are among the fastest revolvers to load.

Jim

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

What are the numbers if you use speedloaders for both?

Oh, wait, they don't make speedloaders for SA's, do they?

Yes. Yes, they do, in fact.

It's called a "double Buscadero gunbelt", for starters.

(Or any number of other double holster gunbelt designs.)

 

[skoro]

The eternal question. How long to load for DA vs SA guns?

If you're being attacked, the answer (unless you're Jerry Miculek) is too long.

 

[MCgunner]

i have a Pietta 1858 Remington with 3 cap and ball cylinders and a .45ACP Howell conversion. Cool gun, but I ain't this fast with it. It's faster than loading a 73 Colt through the gate, though, considerably so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqLL2xuSQs

I carry speed strips for my carries. Don't figure standing out in the open IPSC style doing a mag change is wise, either. If I have to reload, it'll be behind cover which I'll immediately seek out, or after I make the shot to top off the gun. Did that just the other day after shooting a cottonmouth. Then, too, I always have at least one NY reload on me.

 

[BlindJustice]

Fastest Reloads in Revolvers Here's my regular range Revo.

S&W 625 .45 ACP wFull Moon Clips
or .45 Auto Rim H&K 25M Speedloaders.
The chamber mouths have been chamfered.

The Full Moon Clips are faster and more reliable
in extracting empties.

Randall

 

[BlindJustice]

My shooting buddy bought a Ruger Blackhawk 5 1/2" Bbl.
and got the wood w/Ruger Medallion grips from Ruger for $38
The grips improve the feel, but I prefer my S&W 625 for SA
Grip angle is different - I've got Guy Hogue Rosewood grips
which is the shape S&W copied for their stock rubber grips.
the Hogue's are larger overall.

every once in a while a .45 Auto Rim case remains as the ejector
didn't get it (?) then it takes a fijngernail to get it out

Randall

 

[CraigC]

Without speedloaders, the DA's only advantage is in unloading. Loading is a wash.

 

[Dr.Rob]

My fastest loading DA revolver is a 1917 Colt New Service Army with full moon clips and ball ammo. Everything is BIG and the round nose bullets sort of put themselves where they need to be.

My SA revolver a 44 mag Ruger Vaquero isn't 'speedy' but with cowboy loads it extracts easily. When you get into the heavy magnums sometimes a case will take a little more force to get moving. A free spin pawl (no I don't have one installed) might speed things up because if you mis-index a Ruger you go all the way around again.

Reloading from a belt I am sure I can do it in under 30 seconds, but I suspect with snap caps and practice that 18-20 second mark is possible.

 

[BCRider]

I'm going to have to don my IDPA revolver getup and try a reload on video to see how it works out.

My setup isn't anything fancy, I shoot a couple of different K frame revolvers and I use Safariland Comp I's held in old police issue speed loader pouches with the flaps cut away and the leather sides pinched in to hold them in place with enough retention force to get by.

Dr Rob, assuming you have any sort of camera to video yourself or someone that can run a stop watch from hammer fall to hammer fall please indulge us and join the fun. I'll do the same for my IDPA setup... including the bright Hawaiian shirt I use for a summer time cover garment....

 

[silicosys4]

Without speedloaders, the DA's only advantage is in unloading. Loading is a wash.

How do you figure?
Are you saying a DA with its cylinder swung out and all chambers exposed for loading is no advantage to a SA with a loading gate that can be skipped accidentally between chambers and can only load one round ever at a time? It's not hard to get two at a time into a DA. Even one at a time is going to be easier under stress with a DA than through a loading gate on a SA, while making sure to index the cylinder just enough...
Unless it's a top break, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

 

[RealGun]

I started with each loaded with empty casings

Note that we are talking RELOAD here, not LOAD an empty gun. Unloading en masse with a DA leaves the unloading step without debate, doesn't it, assuming a full length ejector?

 

[CraigC]

How do you figure?
Are you saying a DA with its cylinder swung out and all chambers exposed for loading is no advantage to a SA with a loading gate that can be skipped accidentally between chambers and can only load one round ever at a time? It's not hard to get two at a time into a DA. Even one at a time is going to be easier under stress with a DA than through a loading gate on a SA, while making sure to index the cylinder just enough...
Unless it's a top break, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

With a DA, the best you can hope for is to load two at a time but they have to be deliberately inserted into each chamber and typically, it's best to only handle two cartridges at a time. With an SA, you can have all five or six cartridges in your hand at once, simply dropping them into the loading port and allowing gravity to do the rest. Anyone who has spent much time with one knows this. Without moon clips or speedloaders, having all six chambers exposed is an imagined advantage.

If you "accidentally" skip a chamber, you probably don't know what you're doing.

 

[RealGun]

If you "accidentally" skip a chamber, you probably don't know what you're doing.

Ivory tower comment that fails to reflect a sense of community here.

 

[CraigC]

Ivory tower comment that fails to reflect a sense of community here.

No, a suggestion that more practice is needed. I typically don't get into discussions comparing the skilled to the unskilled. If you "accidentally" skip a chamber, you need more practice, i.e. more skill.

Don't lecture me about "a sense of community".

Contrary to your belief, not everybody who is better, likes more expensive or older guns than you is an "elitist" shouting from an ivory tower. If you would discard that idea, you might actually learn something.