SA vs. DA Hammer Cocking, ease of

[aaaaa]

So I had my wife, who is all of about 100 pounds, try cocking hammers on all my revolvers that have hammers.

S&W Model 31-1 32 Long SA/DA
S&W 686+ .357 Magnum SA/DA
Virginian Dragoon 44 Magnum SA Only

She failed to cock either of the SA/DA revolvers, would have had to use two thumbs maybe.

But the SA only she was easily able to cock.

So my question is, Is there something inherent in the SA only that makes it so the springs do not need to be as stiff as in a SA/DA revolver. My data set above is grossly inadequate to really draw any conclusions from.

 

[UncleEd]

In SA/DA you have the added spring for
trigger return which can be quite stiff
to ensure no short stroking and fast reset.

In SAs, that trigger return spring does
not exist; also the design of most SA
revolvers allows for better leverage
in cocking the hammer.

With well tuned SA/DA revolvers, the
SA cocking is less severe and in some
cases almost unnoticeable. For the
most part Colt's Pythons and Officer's
Models were really designed for ease of
SA cocking. This made them favorites
in NRA bullseye competitions.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

In SA/DA you have the added spring for
trigger return which can be quite stiff
to ensure no short stroking and fast reset.

For the
most part Colt's Pythons and Officer's
Models were really designed for ease of
SA cocking. This made them favorites
in NRA bullseye competitions.

This ^^^^ is because the Colt's I & E frame (Python, Officer's Model Match, Official Police, Army Special, etc.) use leaf springs, not coil springs, and one spring is used for fire control - both hammer tension and trigger reset/return. There's less "stacking" with that arrangement also. That makes it easier to cock Colts SA because the tension is nearly constant. It's a very different trigger feel from a S&W, where two springs are used: the mainspring (a.k.a. hammer spring) tensions the hammer, and the rebound spring tensions the trigger reset. Those tensions stack one on the other during hammer cocking and "can" or "might" increase the felt tension.

 

[UncleEd]

This ^^^^ is because the Colt's I & E frame (Python, Officer's Model Match, Official Police, Army Special, etc.) use leaf springs, not coil springs, and one spring is used for fire control - both hammer tension and trigger reset/return. ..........

Certainly, this too.

But the design contributes to a less
vigorous trigger return/reset compared
to a Smith or now the Rugers.

Colt's redesign of the internals for the
Python and King Cobra using a "U"
rather than the older "V" spring design
has, I believe, helped the action overall
but stiffened SA cocking.

But I was hoping at the onset to keep the
explanation as simple as possible. And I
was referring to the guns the OP cited.

 

[WrongHanded]

Leverage is a factor. SA guns tend to have longer hammers, which offer more leverage to overcome spring tension. Couple that with the additional weight and travel distance of the hammer from cocked to strike, and the hammer spring need not be so stiff.

 

[Jim Watson]

Strange, my Pythons stacked like mad until treated to some expensive gunsmithing.

 

[stanley_white]

I submit that hammer design also plays a role.

-Stan

 

[LaneP]

Ruger SA's are pretty easy to cock (Vaquero, Blackhawk, etc).

 

[trackskippy]

They also seem to take forever to fall.

 

[Riomouse911]

As the guys said above, fewer springs in the action allows for less resistance.

Leverage also plays a part. To me, the lower spur of the Ruger Bisley hammer makes those even easier to cock than the standard Ruger SA hammer.

When shooting SA in a hurry (Usta shoot Cowboty Action Shooting decades ago) I would keep my right hand in place with a good shooting grip and thumb the hammer with my left thumb. (One-handed shooting/cocking was called “Duelist”, I wasn’t close to shooting with those guys!) Was your wife using two hands to hold/cock the revolvers or just one?

Staysafe..

 

[aaaaa]

Leverage is a factor. SA guns tend to have longer hammers, which offer more leverage to overcome spring tension. Couple that with the additional weight and travel distance of the hammer from cocked to strike, and the hammer spring need not be so stiff.

Yeah, and not long after posting this thread, it occurred to me. The spur on the Dragoon is probably twice as long as on the other two guns, and wider. Not just the spur, but the pivot point for the hammer gives the total length of leverage. In that regard, a larger gun, all else equal, should have a longer lever.

 

[UncleEd]

They also seem to take forever to fall.

I used to tell friends you could pull the trigger,
set the BH down, light a cigaret and take a
puff or two, pick up the BH and aim it just
before it fired.

 

[cfullgraf]

When shooting SA in a hurry (Usta shoot Cowboty Action Shooting decades ago) I would keep my right hand in place with a good shooting grip and thumb the hammer with my left thumb. (One-handed shooting/cocking was called “Duelist”, I wasn’t close to shooting with those guys!) Was your wife using two hands to hold/cock the revolvers or just one?

Similarly, I generally am griping the revolver with two hands and use my off hand to cock the revolver. For DA/SA revolvers, it seems a bit easier than trying to cock the revolver with the strong hand. Also, you do not upset the grip position of the strong hand on the revolver.

 

[Tallball]

In my experience the SA revolvers are much easier to cock.

Yet another reason that something like a Single Six is so good for teaching.

 

[LaneP]

I thought I might like a SBH style hammer on my NMB, ended up not liking it and went back to the original hammer. My thumb gets a better purchase on the high spur NMB style, for what feels like better control in the cocking process.

 

[Jim Watson]

Once upon a time, King Gun Sight Co. would put a short action in your SAA. Usually accompanied by other work to make it competitive with DAs.
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/old-school-cool/

 

[halfmoonclip]

Leverage of the longer hammer is the main reason single actions are easier to cock.
For the OP, teaching yer bride to cock a double action revolver, for any serious reason, is a bad idea...if she finds it challenging to cock it, safely uncocking it will be virtually impossible. Especially under duress.
Better to get her a Smith EZ or somesuch.
Yeah, Pythons always thumbed back wonderfully well. They also had locktime easily measured with a sundial...
Moon

 

[Jim Watson]

For the OP, teaching yer bride to cock a double action revolver, for any serious reason, is a bad idea...if she finds it challenging to cock it, safely uncocking it will be virtually impossible.

You don't have to TEACH her, if she knows it is possible, she will do it.
I know of one decocking discharge and a startle response discharge locally.

 

[halfmoonclip]

You don't have to TEACH her, if she knows it is possible, she will do it....

Due respect, but huh?
We used to teach our gun safety classes decocking revolvers...golly, it was fun.
We decided teaching them to shoot double action was a better idea.
Moon

 

[Hal]

You can also always borrow from one of the pocket guns with a bobbed and shrouded hammer.
Just squeeze the trigger to get the hammer about halfway back, then finish cocking it with your thumb.

I myself am not real comfortable doing that - but - since all my hammers have spurs, I have no real need to do it.