The Good (LaRue), The Bad (a new Burris XTR-14) and The Ugly (Burris CS)!!

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MCMXI

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The Good ... LaRue Tactical.
The Bad ... a new Burris XTR-14 (the cracked ocular lens that is).
The Ugly ... Burris Customer Service.

Let me explain. I just bought a new Burris XTR-14 from LaRue Tactical (an amazing company with amazing products) as a package with one of their QD LT-104 mounts. I want to replace the Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x that's currently on an AR with something in the 1-5x range (1-4x is close enough). The Mark 4 will be moving to a .308 AR. The Burris seems like a really good scope with lots of nice features and it's about 20% more compact than the Mark 4 that I'm using.

burris_leupold.jpg


After installing the scope in the mount, I placed the mount on the AR, shouldered the rifle and almost immediately noticed that there were two cracks on the outer edge of the ocular lens! :cuss: I still don't know how I missed them when looking through the scope when I first opened the box. I put it down to excitement and not really paying attention to details.

ocular_lens_1.jpg


ocular_lens_2.jpg


ocular_lens_3.jpg


This morning I called Burris and was put through to their warranty department. The woman on the phone couldn't give a rats a$$ that I'd just spent around $600 on a new Burris and that the scope was defective. So much for Burris quality control and their customer service department needs a lot of work. The original unopened packaging for the scope was perfect without a ding, dent or scratch, so I'm betting that the scope left Burris in that condition. I realize that **** happens, but it's how a company deals with that **** that makes all the difference. The less than friendly, totally unapologetic Burris woman told me to ship the scope to them and that I should have it back in about 3 weeks.

My next step was to call LaRue Tactical but I was expecting them to tell me to ship it to Burris for repair. WRONG!! They told me to ship it to them and that they'd pull another brand new unit off the shelf and personally inspect it prior to sending it out to me. Now THAT'S what I call service. While I'm on the subject of LaRue, they always put a cap, "beverage entry tool" and meat rubbing powder (Dillo Dust) in the box when they ship stuff out. This isn't essential stuff but very nice all the same, particularly when the wife sees the contents of the box and has a big smile on her face when I tell her that she can have the LaRue Tactical cap! :)

As for the Burris XTR-14, I have high hopes for it despite the customer service. The glass appears to be good and I like the illuminated reticle and the intensity adjustment. However, it's kind of odd that the whole ocular bell acts as a power ring ... first time I've had a scope like that. Ultimately, I hope I don't regret this purchase. I have six Mark 4s and a Vari-X II that have been outstanding and I've found Leupold customer service to be excellent too. After joining THR, and reading the constant Leupold bashing, I've strayed to brands such as Swarovski, Zeiss and now Burris. Not because I've found Leupold lacking, but more to broaden my horizons and to see if I really have been missing something. The $1000 Swarovski range finder lasted a week before it had to fly back to Austria. So far the Zeiss has been flawless sitting on a rifle in the safe, but 1/3 ain't good. How does that expression go? Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

:)
 
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yep, sounds like larue wants return customers. and solid endorsments like this from a credible source will earn them some new ones along the way.

ps. awesome photographic skillz. the chip in that 3rd pic is perfectly focused to draw the eyes right where you wanted them.
 
LaRue has long been known as an excellent company, for both their products and CS. Hence the saying... "If LaRue is an answer, then LaRue is the answer!"
 
FlyinBryan said:
ps. awesome photographic skillz.

Thanks, but photography isn't really one of my strong points. I take many, many shots to get just one good one ... usually the first one that I took ... :banghead: ... and then there's always Photoshop.

I'll definitely be ordering more "stuff" from LaRue. Their scope/mount package deals are among the best out there plus I won't consider any other scope mount for an AR.

FlyinBryan, thanks for the "credible source" comment ... I appreciate that.

:)
 
kudos to larue for stepping in to handle a situation that wasn't their problem. scores a lot of points w/ me.

burris... heh, typical burris. i know leupold-bashing is a popular pastime on this board, but your experience is typical burris, and why they will have a real tough time taking leupold's market share.

at any rate, enjoy your stick - i hope it does well for you!
 
i've returned stuff to larue as well and they've always taken care of me, even when it was my fault. (which was always, since i've never had one of their products fail)
 
The folks at LaRue are awesome... this is my rock solid LaRue/SEI/Leupold long-range combo.

LT-608c.jpg


I am currently putting together a mid-range LaRue/SEI/Leupold combo.


.
 
Looking at the two scopes, I imagine the Burris is a step down in less than ideal light conditions. I don't see how its possible for the smaller diameter objective lens to pull in equal amount of light as the MK IV can.

In your dealings, did you ask to speak with a supervisor? In my experience, you usually get better service from them.
 
I still don't know how I missed them when looking through the scope when I first opened the box.

Maybe you didn't, seem's like damage like that would be hard to miss. It could be that something happened while you were mounting it, but that's just a thought.
 
RDF said:
Looking at the two scopes, I imagine the Burris is a step down in less than ideal light conditions. I don't see how its possible for the smaller diameter objective lens to pull in equal amount of light as the MK IV can.

The Mark 4 is an excellent scope but I wanted something with a 1x option and a red dot sight which the Burris has. I'm not familiar with all the 1-Xx scopes on the market, but many of them only have 24mm objective lenses.

I didn't ask to speak to a supervisor since that wouldn't have changed the three-week turnaround or the fact that I wouldn't be getting a new scope.


browningguy said:
Maybe you didn't, seem's like damage like that would be hard to miss. It could be that something happened while you were mounting it, but that's just a thought.

That's a fair comment but I know that I didn't damage it during mounting or at any other point. I didn't drop or bang the scope at any time. In fact, there wasn't any need to touch the ocular bell during installation. I'm very, very careful with optics and have managed to install twelve scopes on rifles without damaging any of them. Typically I lap the rings but the LaRue mounts don't need lapping. There weren't any ring marks on the scope when I removed it and sent it back to LaRue. I torque the screws to 15 in-lb and use blue Loctite.

What the photos don't show is that the cracks aren't as easy to see when looking through the scope on 4x. When you look through a scope, your eye is aligned with the center axis of the tube. It wasn't until I turned the power ring to 1x that I noticed the big crack at the 3 o'clock position. I noticed it out of the corner of my eye. If you look at the photos, you'll notice that the crack (chip) starts on the inside of the lens. I bet that the lens mounting surface has a couple of high spots beneath each crack. These high spots exerted sufficient force on the ocular lens to crack it as the lens was installed and the retaining ring tightened ... just a theory.

:)
 
LaRue is a great outfit.


I was wondering why you went with the Burris when you could have a Leupold MK4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm for only a couple hundred more. Your get the excellent SPR reticle and the ability to use BDC M2 turrets.

I have the Leupold 1-5-5x20 on my Daniel Defense SPR
Leupold2.gif

LaRue.gif

CamzSPR.gif
 
Zak Smith said:
If you need a contact at Burris, contact me privately.

Zak, welcome back and thanks for the offer but that's ok ... LaRue is handling it for me. I would be interested to hear if Burris has had a problem with the ocular lens cracking though.

cameron.personal said:
I was wondering why you went with the Burris when you could have a Leupold MK4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm for only a couple hundred more. Your get the excellent SPR reticle and the ability to use BDC M2 turrets. I have the Leupold 1-5-5x20 on my Daniel Defense SPR

Good question. I have a couple of 1.5-5x Mark 4s with the SP reticle (non-illuminated) and wanted to try something different. The Burris has some nice features and a good reticle for holdovers. It's going on a 16" POF upper so I wanted to keep it simple and don't want to be messing with windage/elevation adjustments. The Mark 4 above will be going on a POF .308 arriving the end of this week or early next week. My "SPR" has a Mark 4 3.5-10x FFP plus I have three other Mark 4 scopes so I'm very familiar with the Mark 4 line. I hope I don't regret my decision to go with Burris.

:)
 
Glad to hear that LaRue is taking good care of its customers...makes a big difference...especially when things start to cool off and companies decide that they can't treat everyone like $h!+ and expect to keep them as a customer and get more business. Over the last few months I have had several companies that showed little interest in CS...many of which I will not be returning to/buying from...the ones that have offered good CS despite being overwhelmed with orders, phone calls, e-mail, et cetera are the companies that I will look for if and when I decide to buy again. I am willing to pay a couple bucks extra for good customer assistance, prompt service, and someone that shows interest in their customers. Some of the companies that I don't mind recommending/advertising for are...Midway USA, Brownells, Liberty Optics, and a few local shops. For each of the above companies there are many that I can't recommend...or in some cases that I can...to stay away from. When I am shopping for mounts or other accessories I will keep LaRue in mind. :)
 
cameron.personal said:
I was wondering why you went with the Burris when you could have a Leupold MK4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm for only a couple hundred more. Your get the excellent SPR reticle and the ability to use BDC M2 turrets.

After much thought, that's exactly what I've decided to do so I won't be joining the Burris owner's group after all. My bad experience with a brand new scope, my concerns with some aspects of the design and the lousy attitude from Burris customer service left me with too many doubts. I called LaRue this morning and they're going to ship out an illuminated Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm. I should have stayed with what I know and ordered a Mark 4 from the get go, but my recent positive experience with Zeiss made me consider trying yet another manufacturer. I will say that the design of the Burris in terms of the power ring is odd. None of my other scopes work that way and I wasn't overly keen on the screws in the ocular bell either.

For all you Leupold bashers and naysayers (you know who you are) .... :neener: ... this makes #10 for me and Leupold ... #11 if I include my Mark 4 spotting scope. A while back I sold a Vari-X III target scope and an EER scope that I had no use for, but I still have and use all the rest. Every Leupold scope has arrived in perfect condition and the only issue that I've had with 11 optics from them is that one of the Mark 4s had to go back twice due to dust on the reticle. It's been perfect ever since. I use Mark 4s on two .45-70 rifles, a .300 Win Mag and a .300 WSM and yet I've never had a failure of any kind ... they've been PERFECT.

Mav, Midway is on my list of great companies too!

:)
 
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For all you Leupold bashers and naysayers (you know who you are)
Present. :p I will admit that the VX-III+ are pretty good scopes. IMO the lower end scopes are pretty bad. :)

Oh, and it would seem that you made a wise decision in going with the Leupy over the defective Burris (Scope and CS). Good luck with the new Leupy.
 
Maverick223 said:
Oh, and it would seem that you made a wise decision in going with the Leupy over the defective Burris (Scope and CS). Good luck with the new Leupy.

Thanks Mav ... I'm feeling a lot better about the whole experience today and looking forward to zeroing the new Mark 4 once it arrives. I'll be zeroing the Mark 4 above on a new POF SPR (.308) this weekend assuming I can put together some loads for it.

I really don't have much experience with Leupold's entry-level scopes. I still have a Vari-X IIc which I bought back in the mid '90s. The scope works very well but is noticeably less sharp/clear compared to the Mark 4s and Zeiss ... but that's no big surprise. The Vari-X II wasn't a top-of-the-line scope back in the 90's but it was considered to be a decent model. Anyway, it makes for a decent hunting scope so I may pay the $70 and have Leupold install a new reticle better suited to hunting.

:)
 
Thanks Mav ... I'm feeling a lot better about the whole experience today and looking forward to zeroing the new Mark 4 once it arrives.
No problem, 1858, at least you have good CS (from Leupold) and excellent CS (LaRue) to back you up should there be any unfortunate problems...which I doubt, Leupold has good QC. :)
 
H20 MAN said:
I am currently putting together a mid-range LaRue/SEI/Leupold combo.

What are you going with in terms of the scope? Same model again?

:)
 
Maverick223 said:
at least you have good CS (from Leupold) and excellent CS (LaRue) to back you up should there be any unfortunate problems...which I doubt, Leupold has good QC.

Leupold's customer service is excellent. When I had to send the Mark 4 back a second time, the CS guy (Jason Rice IIRC) was very apologetic and told me to send it Attn: to him and that he'd PERSONALLY make sure that it didn't need to come back a third time. That kind of service, coupled with the 100% reliable performance of my other Leupolds is hard to beat.

:)
 
Originally Posted by H20 MAN:
I am currently putting together a mid-range LaRue/SEI/Leupold combo.

1858

What are you going with in terms of the scope? Same model again? :)

Nope, this MK14 Mod 1 will get the Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T with M2 dials and Illuminated SPR.

The Crazy Horse M21A5 pictured above has a FDE Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T with M2 dials and Illuminated TMR.

BTW, I recently picked up a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout scope for my Marlin Guide Gun.




.
 
good cs is the mark of a good company and la rue seems to have delievered. that sucks that burris was like that but i will tell you from working with everybody from smith and wesson to springfield armory to kimber sadly enough the cs is who you are talking to on the phone. Ive had great and horrible conversations with cs reps from all of these companies.
 
A new Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm (illuminated reticle) arrived from LaRue today. They were even kind enough to include another hat, beverage entry tool, scope adjustment tool and Dillo Dust. If that weren't enough ... FREE shipping to boot! What a great company!! :)

Thanks very much to cameron.personal for the suggestion re the Mark 4 ... it's what I should have ordered in the first place. That'll teach me for trying something new. As expected, everything's perfect on this scope. No scratches, cracks, chips etc ... just a top quality, well designed and superbly built scope. I'm only going to consider Leupold, Zeiss and Nightforce in the $500 to $1500 price range from now on. If I ever decide to buy a really high end scope, it'll be the new FFP Nightforce NXS F1 or a Schmidt & Bender ... no offense Maverick. :)

mark4_1.5-5x_1.jpg


mark4_1.5-5x_3.jpg


:)
 
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