The Great Betrayal (A 5.45 Love Story)

[Rack Grade]

I just need to talk:

For may years I have been dating a woman named .223. But she's become increasingly difficult to please and high maintenance. Her appetites have become expensive. Dinners out used to cost $129/1000. Now they're $350/1000. I just don't know how to please her anymore.

I'm going to ....well…..going to break up with her for my new love 5.45x39 (*sniff*). There, I've said it.

Well, 5.45 is not as elegant and pretty as my long time girlfriend, who clothed herself with fancy brass and came from the right side of the tracks (Lake City). She's a bit shorter and more stocky, and she wears a more utilitarian steely outfit which makes her fuller figure ...well....very attractive.

Perhaps it is a bit of mid-life crisis, but there is something undeniably attractive to me right now about cheap and easy after many years of consistent, ever-present, loyal .223. Something new. Interesting. Newfound excitement.

A betrayal? Perhaps. Short lived? Time will tell.

And yes....the new girl she's a native of another country, but isn't this, in a sense, what America is all about?

Anyway its what's inside that counts, and she's just as beautiful on the inside - delivering passionate and unconditional berdan primed love everytime we are together, and who's to say it matters if you have to wash a bit more after such sweet passion?

This is not without risk: The loyalty will certainly not match my .223 girl. 5.45 might run out on me. Or she could decide to become a more expensive, high maintenance partner later on after I’m totally hooked. These are the risks we take with committed relationships. I feel at the same time both titillated and vulnerable.

Well, this is a big step for me. .223 hasn't changed, I still like her. But I LOVE my money, and .223 is just going to have to find a new sugar-daddy.

PLEASE: Your advice! Am I doing the right thing?

[This is a reprint/edit/improvement of a post from earlier this year]

 

[Kachok]

LOL great post, I love it. The Ruski small bore is not really my cup of tea to say the least, I think that the .223 is already low enough on the energy scale without someone watering it down even more. 223 has better brass, bullets, rifles, more case capacity......well pretty much everything come to think of it. If the only thing better about the Ruski 5.45 is cheap ammo, just get a rimfire 22LR, or start reloading. That is unless you are in LOVE with a certain assult rifle too.

 

[unwise11]

NO. 5.45 will never replace .223 get a .22 for cheap.

 

[armoredman]

All I can say is man, you've got ISSUES!

 

[Onmilo]

The Russians use it.
Not many other countries elected to use this caliber preferring to remain with the 7.62X39 or choosing the 5.56 instead.
The Chinese still rely on 7.62X39 for the masses Army and issue their own 4.85mm rifle to specialized troops.

Only the muzzle brake designed for the 5.45 provided anything dramatic or new and it creates a new set of issues to go with the improvements.
The concept cartridge and execution were ho-hum.

 

[krinko]

Some people just don't understand love....a .22 is no substitute for a full grown beauty like Miss 5.45.

My Severe Ostdeutsch Madchen---



The hammer forged barrel, the Carl Zeiss glass, the little "ping" as the extractor flies off into the tall grass-----

But there's more than one way to enjoy the Little Russian...



No, Rack Grade, you are not wrong to love her...
-----krinko

 

[Kachok]

You know reloading your 223 brass will keep your first love afordable, it is not as hard as you would might think. Sure the 5.45 ammo is cheap import stuff right now, but like all good things it will jump through the roof once it catches on just like 308 and 7.62x39 did.

 

[GunTech]

Great post!!

I find myself in the same boat. It's too hard to pass up cheap 5.45 and 22lr will never deliver the thrill that a 0.221 driven at 3,000 fps will.

 

[GunTech]

NO. 5.45 will never replace .223 get a .22 for cheap.

That's like saying replace your girlfriend with a dog.

 

[Hatterasguy]

In some areas its probably a better round than the 5.56. They certainly skirted the treaty with the hollow tip, but so are we with the new hollow point.

Its like car racing, or well any racing...everybody cheats.

 

[Maverick223]

I almost did...but then decided against it...NC costs too much, and corrosive requires too much cleaning IMO. I still might get one later on, but I have decided to go with a cheap-ish pistol caliber carbine instead...and the big-boy rifle cartridges aren't going anywhere either.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

If you truly love Miss 5.45 you will prove it by buying 10 spam cans from her motherland

 

[Tirod]

Cheap milsurp ammo runs in cycles. It used to be .30-06, then .308, then .223, then 7.62x39, now 5.45.

If you consume a lot of ammo and refuse to reload, then you are a pawn in the cycle of industrial nations rearming in different calibers. What isn't happening is choosing one for the actual ballistics. Its more paper punching and fireworks than actual downrange performance. So, shoot what's cheap, irregardless of the performance or how reliably the weapon runs.

The attractiveness of cheap affairs is there is no commitment. If you stick to the best caliber for what you do, then you discover the methods of maintaining the "marriage," rather than looking outside of it. You reload, practice tactics with .22, and shoot in dedicated sessions, not just popping caps. You retain the familiarity of where the controls are, knowing what buttons to push when, and expectations aren't suddenly broken when something doesn't turn out they way you thought it might. You learn to maintain a system, not just spend more money on newer stuff that actually turns out to be the same thing over again - with the same problems coming up that still need to be addressed and fixed.

I have to ask, since gas has gone up from .249 to 2.49 and more, has ammo really gone up? Perspective gives a different answer to costs. Ask the guys who have been with a caliber for a long time, you get a different answer. 35c a round is a killer deal - from the 6.8, 6.5G, or .338 Lapua view. When there is NO surplus to be had, you figure out how to make it work without breaking the bank, and live with the choice.

Yes, I have changed calibers more than once, but I'm still married to my first wife, 35 years and running (to hide from the Honey Do list.)

 

[GunTech]

While there are some cartridges that are around for the long run, I view the 5.45 as fun and cheap right now. You can pick up a rifle for under $400 and ammo for $0.14 per round. It may well go up in price and no longer be the great deal it was. But at the cost of rifle and ammo there is a lot of cheap fun to be had. The wide popularity of the round means that even if surplus ammo does disappear, there will be someone making it commercially. It will then cost what any commercial ammo costs, and for its intended purpose it no worse than any other round.

Now if only CZ would make the 527 in 5.45. Too bad the Russians used a different case head for the 5.45x39. Still, it's only a few thousands bigger than 5.56 so it should be trivial to open up the bolt face. I believe 5.45 ARs just use a 5.56 extractor.

 

[leadcounsel]

Splurge on the affair. After it's all said and done after and at some point a few thousand rounds you'll have the rifle and lots of great training/experience to show for it, and you'll then be able to decide whether you want to return to your first love, or commit to your flame.

$350 per 1000 of 5.56
$120 per 1000 of 5.45

Savings of about $230 per 1000 rounds with 5.45

AK74 is about $400.

Buy the rifle and 2000 rounds of 5.45 and get a free rifle!

 

[benEzra]

$350 per 1000 of 5.56
$120 per 1000 of 5.45

Savings of about $230 per 1000 rounds with 5.45

Well, to be fair, I'm seeing noncorrosive Wolf steel-case .223 for $239/1000 at ammoman.com right now. Still twice as much as the milsurp 5.45x39, but not three times as much.

 

[leadcounsel]

Well, to be fair, I'm seeing noncorrosive Wolf steel-case .223 for $239/1000 at ammoman.com right now. Still twice as much as the milsurp 5.45x39, but not three times as much.

Was using the OPs estimates for 5.56 and need for the expensive brass...

Besides, I would NEVER again feed my finiky AR15s with steel. Gums up too much.

 

[sansone]

thanks for the post rackgrade, go for it. I built myself an AR in 7.62x39 just to shoot commie bullets. Turns out I only shoot brass-case now, but still love the commie/AR hybrid anyhow

 

[Justin]

.223 isn't expensive if you reload. I have little experience with 5.45 and no idea how it stacks up against .223 as far as accuracy or ballistics are concerned.

 

[GunTech]

The 5.45x39 7N6 is a 53gn bullet at 2900fps. BC is around 0.32. Compare this to M193 with a 55gn bullet at a nominal 3300 fps and a BC of 0.243. Granted the nominal velocity of the 7N6 is from a 16 inch bbl versus 20 for the M193, the 5.56 has more velocity, but a losses it more quickly than the 5.45.

Put another way, the 7N6 is very similar ballistically to M855 (BC around 0.30), but the latter has a bullet almost a full 10 grains heavier. Ballistic tables for M855 should be very close for 7N6 within realistic ranges for either caliber.

As far as accuracy, a lot will depend on the rifle. But shooting milsurp 5.56 M855 in an match AR, I am getting a reliable 2 MOA versus about 2.5 MOA in an AK74. However, the same AR will deliver 0.25 MOA groups when fed match handloads.

 

[gunnutery]

LOL! Great post OP.

I've never really been a huge fan of .223, but it's been on patrol with me for about four years now. I've wanted to switch to .308 for a patrol rifle, but funds are low and the brass doesn't want to invest more into rifles.

I've really been switching gears towards 7.62x39 for a SD (possibly HD) round. I've been updating my MAK90 for the switch at home.

 

[Rack Grade]

Sooooooo right. Like getting a free rifle. I like that in these trying economic times.

 

[lebowski]

My next purchase may well be a arsenal ak74 w/ a folding stock. It would not be a replacement for my 5.56 M4 or for any of my other guns, but IMO AKs are a lot of fun to shoot and if the 5.45 allows me to have a lot of fun for cheap then it's worth it to me. .22lr is fun too, but let's not pretend it replicates the experience of a centerfire carbine.

 

[happygeek]

They're selling Wolf 55 grain 1000 rounds for $180 right now (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AM223111-P.aspx). I'll have to check my local bulk/surplus ammo store later, they typically sell for 1 or 2 cents more per round than I can find online, but unless you get free shipping you can't beat that store. I paid $130 for a 500 round pack of Wolf 5.56 at the local store about 8 months ago, so I'm psyched to see the price drop that much. My Sig cycles Wolf just fine and the stuff is at least as accurate as I am.

I got a 1080 spam can of 5.45 at that store for $140 at that store about 3 months ago. I also like the round and the AK74 I got for $370 with 3 mags. The only way I've found to get it cheaper than 5.56 though is to use corrosive Russian surplus.

Call me cheap, but lately I haven't been able to bring myself to shoot any centerfire at less than 100 yards. I got a 22LR that's plenty accurate at 50 yards and less, not bad at 100 yards, and is fun to shoot. It also mimics the weight, feel, and controls of the AR15 quite nicely.

 

[wnycollector]

As far as accuracy, a lot will depend on the rifle. But shooting milsurp 5.56 M855 in an match AR, I am getting a reliable 2 MOA versus about 2.5 MOA in an AK74.

I am seeing a similar .5 to 1 moa difference between my Saiga shooting Bulgy 52gr 7n6 and my two AR's (14.5 BCM and 20" Del-ton) shooting Silver Bear 62gr HP.