The great C&R debate. I still think I'm right.

[deadin]

I am being told by one particular FFL that I can't legally buy or sell ANY firearm, period, without running it through an FFL . This isn't correct is it?

Depends on your State or local regulations. It isn't correct as far as the Federal laws go.

One advantage of a C&R license is that it let's you legally buy C&R eligible firearms in any State without having to have them shipped to your local FFL.
If you never travel out of your State and/or don't mind paying the fees to bring a gun in, the FFL03 may be a waste of your time. (Except for the discounts a number of mail order businesses give.)

 

[Cacique500]

I am being told by one particular FFL that I can't legally buy or sell ANY firearm, period, without running it through an FFL . This isn't correct is it?

That's not correct - in Tennessee.

The 03 FFL is well worth it, even if you're only planning on getting a few guns. The cost of the license is $30 and is valid for 3 years - I bet you'll save that much on your first transfer alone. In addition, the discounts you get from Midway, Brownelles, Grafs, etc. will *definitely* pay for it.

The only thing you have to do is keep your bound book - and it takes a grand total of 30 seconds to log something when you acquire/dispose of a C&R. The ATF *can* inspect your C&R items/bound book only (your place or theres, your choice) once per year but this is *extremely* rare.

Who is the dealer in Clarksville that's telling you this? You can PM me if you don't want to post it...very curious...

 

[kfranz]

It's easier and cheaper to just pay the transfer fee and background check for the limited number of guns I'll buy. Once licensed, everything you do is held under a microscope. I just don't need the grief.

That's quitter talk right there. There is no giant C&R microscope examining your penstrokes, and it sure as hell isn't cheaper to pay ~$30 a pop when you are going to be acquiring as many firearms as you are once you figure out how cool it is to have stuff sent to you direct...

 

[Picknlittle]

That's quitter talk right there. There is no giant C&R microscope examining your penstrokes, and it sure as hell isn't cheaper to pay ~$30 a pop when you are going to be acquiring as many firearms as you are once you figure out how cool it is to have stuff sent to you direct...

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. It only costs me the $10 BC. No transfer fee.

At this point I only plan on maybe four more C&R pieces. That of course could change, but only by a small number of pieces over the years. I don't exactly have collecting room. Anything else I purchase, I still have to go through my bud.

The only place I see me really losing is in dealer discounts. What kind of discounts are involved and on what items?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

What I'm talking about is the concept that the momentum of a handgun round will physically injure someone, as distinct from the trauma caused by the crushing and tearing from direct projectile contact.

I have saved literally hundreds of dollars on scopes, shooting equipment, ammo, and reloading supplies at Midway and Brownells.

I bought an Aimpoint scope last year, and saved over $50 on that purchase alone.

 

[MisterPX]

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. It only costs me the $10 BC. No transfer fee.

At this point I only plan on maybe four more C&R pieces.

Hmm, 4 x $10, = $40. C&R =$30.

But nevermind, you go on being a neighsayer and don't get a C&R, leaves more good stuff for the rest of us.

 

[GaryM]

So if you must log all C&Rs "acquired" with your license do you need to log all you posessed before your got it?
I.E. I have had a license for many years. I let it expire, "filed" my old book (As per the regs stating once it is gone you are not required to turn it in or keep it). I waited a few months and got another C&R license.
Now do I have to add everything I already own to my new books or not?

 

[zeroskillz]

Why don't you just call the ATF and ask them? That's what they're there for.

 

[strat81]

This is exactly why I decided to not send in the C&R app. It's easier and cheaper to just pay the transfer fee and background check for the limited number of guns I'll buy. Once licensed, everything you do is held under a microscope. I just don't need the grief.

Please name ONE person with a C&R that has been "held under a microscope". Just one.

 

[Picknlittle]

But nevermind, you go on being a neighsayer and don't get a C&R, leaves more good stuff for the rest of us.

I'm not a naysayer, not at all. I'm just saying that without plans to collect on the scale that some do, C&R just isn't the benefit I initially thought it might be.

I'm the worlds worst and most complacent records keeper. If I write it down, I'll loose it, if I don't write it down immediately, I'll forget about it. This isn't a mistake or fault that "any" FFL can afford.

When I requested my C&R app, I actually thought I might get into collecting on a moderate scale. As it is, I have no room for the firearms and guitars that I have now. My office is a mess, my garage is a mess and a larger house isn't in the forecast.

I have at no time said a C&R wasn't worth it, it just doesn't seem practical for me, given my circumstances. Still there is nothing preventing me from acquiring whatever I want,...it still cost me $10, not $40.

 

[CDignition]

Looks to me like the printed out regs spell it out easily. Never, ever trust an ATF e mail or phone answer.. if it isn't in the printed book they give you, consider it hyperbole.

This little worrying over nothing is so funny.. Just log everything, and you're OK...

We got guys here wanting to pay more cause they're afraid... they're afraid of a ghost, cause nothing to be afraid of.

Plus they're forgetting about dealer prices at Brownells and Midway...I saved hundreds over the last few months just buying parts and little junk...

C&R weapons don't interest me(Except maybe a Garand) but I got one anyhow.... why wouldn't you??..

 

[Flintlock Tom]

Picknlittle,
Don't take the C&R evangelists too personally.
They believe an 03 FFL is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I agree, but only if it suits your personal gun acquisition "lifestyle".
I have had mine for about 7 months and have picked up 5 or 6 "new" guns. Living in CA, let me tell you, it's a real boon to be able to buy a gun on an on-line auction and have it sent directly to my front porch. And on vacation this summer I dropped in at J&G Sales in Prescott, AZ and picked up a CZ82. 10 minutes, out-the-door. No reams of paperwork, no 10-day wait, no "Safe handling demonstration" or certificate.
For me it is indispensable, but not for everyone.
So, please don't take all the comments personally.

 

[zoom6zoom]

So if you must log all C&Rs "acquired" with your license do you need to log all you posessed before your got it?

No. You'll only need to log them in if you dispose of them, so you can log them out.

 

[jefnvk]

The way I look at, an 01 dealer logs all recieved guns in his book, regardless if they came from Joe Schmoe selling his heirlooms in the store or a distributor.

To me, I'll err on the caution side and log everythign

 

[goalie]

Well, there are a few questions you can answer that puts it in persepective:

If YOU are wrong, what is the worst that can happen to you because of the error?

If THEY are wrong, what is the worst that can happen to them because of the error?

The answer for one of the questions is much easier to live with than the other.

 

[geojap]

Steve in PA wrote:
I believe that any C&R firearm you acquire while you have the license must be logged into your bound book whether you used your license or not to obtain the firearm.

I can say that this is 100% correct. I've had a license for years and this is true, no doubt about it. I suggest that an interesting exercise for those who feel contrary would be to invite an ATF agent to your house for a courtesy inspection. Please report their exact utterances back to us.

 

[HankC]

If you sell a C&R face-to-face private sale, do you have to acquire the information from the buyer and log into the log?

 

[Trebor]

If you sell a C&R face-to-face private sale, do you have to acquire the information from the buyer and log into the log?

Yes. That's why some buyers won't buy from a C&R holder in a private sale. I ran across that when I was selling a couple guns while I had my C&R.

 

[Jim K]

Like some folks said, watch those state laws. Maryland does NOT recognize a C&R item or a C&R license in any way, shape, or form. If a C&R item is a "regulated firearm" (handgun or "assault rifle") you can't transfer it even to another C&R licensee within the state without going through a dealer licensed by the state to deal in regulated firearms. You can legally order a C&R regulated firearm from out of state, but you cannot subsequently sell or transfer it in the state to anyone, not even to a dealer.

In other words, for regulated firearms, the C&R license is useless. For other firearms (e.g., a bolt rifle) the law does not even address them, so there is some benefit there of not having to go through a dealer to comply with federal law.

Jim

 

[monsternav]

Maryland does NOT recognize a C&R item or a C&R license in any way, shape, or form.
Really? Could you show me the MD law that says this?

In other words, for regulated firearms, the C&R license is useless.
Why? You can still acquire them. Just not transfer them in state.

There are semi-auto's that you can acquire that are not regulated:
M-1 Rifle, M-1 Carbine, MAS-49, FN-49, Hakim, Ljungman, etc.

 

[geojap]

Wow, I have never heard that before about Maryland. There were several people from Maryland on Gunsnet.net's Curio and Relic forum, where I got started in this C&R hobby from Redstar (when he was alive, God bless him). They never mentioned this whatsoever. You sure about that? Is it new?